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Shoalhaven Unions petition

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby gascoyne » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:18 am

After several months of collecting signatures, Shoalhaven Unions yesterday lodged their petition with Jodi McKay for tabling and debate in the NSW Legislative Assembly. There's a video about it at https://www.facebook.com/WINNewsIllawarra/videos/petition-for-better-rail-services-to-bomaderry/2319279574755439/. Some signatures were collected on trains.

The petition apparently wants track duplication and electrification between Kiama and Bomaderry. What use would that be without duplication north to Unanderra?
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby Aurora » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:13 am

Can't see the justification of spending of hundreds of millions of taxpayers money for this. You would be more likely to see the Kiama to Bomaderry service become a full time bus operation. Much more prudent for the taxpayers of this state.

So sick of unions/Labor seeing taxpayers money as free money.

How many people use the rail service?
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby tonyp » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:43 am

Aurora wrote:How many people use the rail service?

Quite a lot actually and the more important point is how many would potentially use it if the service was better. Gareth Ward MP has been busy pushing along completion of his pet motorway project all the way from Nowra to the southern suburbs of Sydney and now that's all been approved and under construction. That's paid for entirely by taxpayers, basically for the purpose of taking people off the trains into their private cars. Even with the missing bits of motorway stil to be completed, it takes less than an hour by car between Nowra and Wollongong compared with 1hr 15min by train with frequency restricted by single track and Manildra freights. I won't even mention the disparity in travel times to Sydney by the two modes. Lots of people in Shoalhaven have a willingness to use the train instead of driving but are deterred by the slow, infrequent (and uncomfortable) train service.

Also, there are 100,000 people living in Shoalhaven, not to mention about 3.5 million tourists p.a. (the most visited region in NSW outside Sydney) - a little more than just bus territory.
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby 1whoknows » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:29 am

Nowra/ Bomaderry has 14 trains and 3 buses per day (weekdays) now. I don't really see how more could be justified.
If crowding is an issue - and I'm not aware it is - just add an extra carriage or two to the trips concerned.
Many of those 100,000 people referred to work locally rather than commuting to Sydney anyway.
Also the railway station at Bomaderry is poorly positioned in relation to the Nowra township so a change to a bus is always required.
Therefore why not complete duplication to Kiama and then run an hourly bus service between Kiama and Stewart Place all day (or better as and when required)?

The other option, though far more difficult to justify in $$ terms, would be to extend the rail line across the Shoalhaven and down as far as either Ulladulla or Bateman's Bay which would then open up a lot more weekend traffic and take some pressure off the Prince's Highway south of Nowra.
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby tonyp » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Many Shoalhaven residents work in greater Wollongong (and vice versa though less) and it's also the regional service city for many other activities. I think it's a bit of a myth that the rail has to be extended across the river. It works better at Bomaderry where the bus sytem radiates from (at least 2 or 3 buses an hour at the station) and there is plenty of room for parking and no traffic congestion. Central Nowra is bad for congestion and parking. At least a third of the Nowra urban population also lives north of the river and it's also the most booming area due to proximity to Wollongong and Sydney. Extending the line further south is not going to achieve anything while the overall rail operation is so slow and the population so sparse over great distances.

The number of trains per day at present is meaningless in terms of the potential patronage of the line. Duplication as far as Minnamurra or Bombo would do the trick, together with more passing tracks further south and electrification (or alternatively running diesel trains from Nowra Bomaderry through to Wollongong or Sydney to avoid the time-consuming change of trains).
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby Swift » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:51 pm

That's a stunning railway in single track form. Don't change it by making it like any other railway in NSW. I love it the way it is. Why do you need two tracks for a line that terminates in a pretty short time anyway?
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby tonyp » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:56 pm

Because of the Manildra freights plus capacity for any future increase in the passenger service.

There are few more uplifting commuter experiences than waiting on the platform at Bomaderry, seeing a headlight in the distance, rejoicing that your train is actually coming in on time, then going into a mental slide when the headlight reveals itself as being attached to an 81 class with a long rake of wagons running in the passenger train's slot - and it still has to shunt out of the way before the passenger can get through to the station.

And then you miss the connecting train at Kiama.
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby Linto63 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:00 pm

On the 30km from Unanderra to Kiama there are passing loops at Dapto, Albion Park, Shellharbour Junction and Bombo, so 4 out of the 6 stations have loops. Should be adequate on a line that only has an hourly passenger service with the daily Manildra freight and the odd Bombo ballast.

Single working does result in a slightly longer journey time and changing trains at Kiama adds a few minutes, but in percentage terms, a duplicated line and through services would only save a couple. Duplicating the short section south of Coniston would be a relatively cheap win though.

There were some through Endeavour trips through to Wollongong a few years ago, at this stage the timetable required two sets, I believe the current timetable only needs one. Presumably the second was required elsewhere.

Inconvenient as the Manildra freight is, it may well be the only reason the line wasn't closed south of Kiama when the Greiner government took to the network with an axe.
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby tonyp » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:02 pm

To start to compete with the road and thus grow patronage, the journey needs to be one hour Nowra to Wollongong and one hour Wollongong to Sydney, two hours in total, plus greater frequency. That's the baseline from which to appraise what investment is needed in order to achieve that. In addition, a major realignment is needed between Coledale and Waterfall, but south of Thirroul to Nowra actually only needs minor alignment tweaking. The waits at Kiama in the range of 4 to 17 minutes for every service due to non-continuity of electrification is also a big problem. All in all it can be seen why the petition asks for both duplication and electrification.
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby Linto63 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:53 pm

But realistically the Waterfall to Coledale tunnel isn't going to happen any time soon. Reality is that there are more votes in roads, hence the F6 extension which obviously will become the M6 when it is flogged off.
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby gld59 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Linto63 wrote:will become the M6

M1
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Re: Shoalhaven Unions petition

Postby Xplorer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Linto63 wrote:On the 30km from Unanderra to Kiama there are passing loops at Dapto, Albion Park, Shellharbour Junction and Bombo, so 4 out of the 6 stations have loops. Should be adequate on a line that only has an hourly passenger service with the daily Manildra freight and the odd Bombo ballast.

Single working does result in a slightly longer journey time and changing trains at Kiama adds a few minutes, but in percentage terms, a duplicated line and through services would only save a couple. Duplicating the short section south of Coniston would be a relatively cheap win though.

There were some through Endeavour trips through to Wollongong a few years ago, at this stage the timetable required two sets, I believe the current timetable only needs one. Presumably the second was required elsewhere.

Inconvenient as the Manildra freight is, it may well be the only reason the line wasn't closed south of Kiama when the Greiner government took to the network with an axe.


bombo loop isn't very useful as there's no platform for the loop line. there used to be a crossing under the old timetable there, down endeavour from dapto i think would use the loop to cross an up sydney train
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