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Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby swtt » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:25 pm

J_Busworth wrote:I guess that could be due to a plan to run the route with the 14.5s?


How long will these 14.5s stick around for before they're fully replaced???
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Sorry my mistake but the comment still applies. It does not go to Rockdale.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby swtt » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:11 pm

stupid_girl wrote:For 533, there are only a few extra short workings.
This is much less than my expectation.
I hope Transport NSW will seriously consider introducing 7-day services.


Didn't someone on this board mention before (in another thread) that the short workings to Rhodes were rejected when the STA initially proposed it? :lol:

Great to see 533 gain these extra services in the peak. This then boosts the service to 8 per hour during the highest peaks, with these short runners simply turning back to Olympic Park Station to commence a new run, which should be a very quick affair either via Homebush Bay Drive or Bennelong Bridge.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Frosty » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:52 pm

swtt wrote:
J_Busworth wrote:I guess that could be due to a plan to run the route with the 14.5s?


How long will these 14.5s stick around for before they're fully replaced???


They are reaching age limit of 25 years.

Looking at the 400 timetable there aren't many trips that are listed as Wheelchair accessible Mon-Fri. Could P 14.5m buses be used and W Scania L113CRB & R Scania L113CRLs both non wheelchair accessible. Also the new 400 timetable shows correct route map which includes the LR diversions around Randwick unlike the current one. Weirdly they haven't done the same with the 370.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby paulbrown3 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:50 pm

Pdf train timetables for beyond 30/9 are now online.

Rail changes: the pm peak city to central coast via bridge trains no longer stop at Lindfield, with stops matching am services. The Newcastle via bridge trains in both directions have been curtailed to Wyong. Certain trains via bridge to central coast and vice versa will stop at more stations between Gosford and berowra.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby moa999 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Frosty wrote:.
Looking at the 400 timetable there aren't many trips that are listed as Wheelchair accessible Mon-Fri. .


And no-one carries luggage on that bus either..
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby kypros1992 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:07 am

East Hills and Turrella are now shown on the new network map as interchanges because both have one train per weekday that terminates at each station respectfully :roll:

(East Hills at 1:20pm, Turrella at 4:51am)
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby swtt » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:29 pm

The Route 400 description on the 30/9 service adjustments page has been updated to reflect the last minute change to terminate the route at the International Terminal instead of Rockdale.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:08 pm

Frosty wrote:
Looking at the 400 timetable there aren't many trips that are listed as Wheelchair accessible Mon-Fri. Could P 14.5m buses be used and W Scania L113CRB & R Scania L113CRLs both non wheelchair accessible. .


Don't get you hopes up!

I input a request yesterday, suggesting that it was an error and pointing out that it is probably a breach of the regulations.

I received a reply this morning that a revised table will be coming out.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Daniel » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:11 pm

Frosty wrote:
swtt wrote:How long will these 14.5s stick around for before they're fully replaced???


They are reaching age limit of 25 years.

Just to clarify - essentially the way TfNSW define maximum age is that contract buses cannot reach 26 years, so 25 years and 364 days is acceptable.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:29 pm

TSE_SecretAni wrote:
Central Coast & Newcastle Line - Services will no longer stop at Burwood and Eastwood in response to customer feedback.


This is easily the best change, bar none. No offence, but I can sympathise with the "up yours" sentiment from Central Coast passengers that just can't get a seat during the peak because people going to Burwood and Eastwood are lazy and don't use the service thats 'intended' for them. I'm happy for these people. I see on Facebook comments a lot of people from Eastwood are whinging that they don't get IC trains at Eastwood anymore, lol, cry me a river, please tell me how hard you have it and how you have no more trains altogether at Eastwood.

Next, remove Blacktown from Blue Mountains line (I very much support that Westmead got the chop too, now time to go full circle). And Granville too (weekends?) while we're at it, unless thats already been done
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby rogf24 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:40 pm

All intercity services stopping at suburban stations are intended for suburban passenger use unless otherwise specifically indicated. Burwood and Eastwood passengers are doing nothing wrong and these services are equally their service too, not just for the Central Coast. I mean, in some German cities IIRC, you can use high-speed Intercity Express trains as a suburban service with a suburban ticket.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby stupid_girl » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
TSE_SecretAni wrote:
Central Coast & Newcastle Line - Services will no longer stop at Burwood and Eastwood in response to customer feedback.


This is easily the best change, bar none. No offence, but I can sympathise with the "up yours" sentiment from Central Coast passengers that just can't get a seat during the peak because people going to Burwood and Eastwood are lazy and don't use the service thats 'intended' for them. I'm happy for these people. I see on Facebook comments a lot of people from Eastwood are whinging that they don't get IC trains at Eastwood anymore, lol, cry me a river, please tell me how hard you have it and how you have no more trains altogether at Eastwood.

Next, remove Blacktown from Blue Mountains line (I very much support that Westmead got the chop too, now time to go full circle). And Granville too (weekends?) while we're at it, unless thats already been done

Passengers to Central Coast will get a seat after Eastwood passengers alight.
Peak hours train paths are extremely valuable and should not be under-utilised.
Without the suburban stops, the current peak frequency of intercity trains cannot be justified.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby swtt » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:38 pm

stupid_girl wrote:Passengers to Central Coast will get a seat after Eastwood passengers alight.
Peak hours train paths are extremely valuable and should not be under-utilised.
Without the suburban stops, the current peak frequency of intercity trains cannot be justified.



The other option: run more suburban express trains and make intercity passenger change trains at the outer termini - a la Southern Highlands interchanges at Campbelltown.

Otherwise you might have to remove the suburban stops totally but also potentially in lieu of the intercity train, run a suburban limited stops train in its path.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby 745-Castle Hill » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:38 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
Next, remove Blacktown from Blue Mountains line (I very much support that Westmead got the chop too, now time to go full circle). And Granville too (weekends?) while we're at it, unless thats already been done


Why on earth would you think getting rid of Blacktown from BMT services is a good idea? That would mean people from stations between Richmond and Marayong would have to travel to Parramatta just to go back out west or catch three trains. Westmead and Eastwood were not connecting stations (except for local buses and services) so it made sense to cut them.

Also, it’s pretty easy to go and check if Granville is service by BMT trains which it is not since the Cumberland Line provides connections at Parramatta seven days a week.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:15 pm

rogf24 wrote:All intercity services stopping at suburban stations are intended for suburban passenger use unless otherwise specifically indicated. Burwood and Eastwood passengers are doing nothing wrong and these services are equally their service too, not just for the Central Coast. I mean, in some German cities IIRC, you can use high-speed Intercity Express trains as a suburban service with a suburban ticket.


Yeah well, if you live up the Coast, your only option is to take the Intercity. If you live in Sydney, and before I proceed I will add, if you live in/were born in, Sydney, you are already incredibly so privileged to be so, then you have the option of both frequent peak Sydney trains services or an Intercity. Why does the train need to stop at Eastwood or Burwood? Why not add a stop at hmmmm Croydon? yeah? why not? I'm not really buying the disappointment expressed by people on social media upset that CCN will no longer stop at Eastwood or Burwood. You already have so many train services and options. Just, no. Why not try living out in I don't know, Warnervale, and then see how that compares with Burwood or Eastwoods train service!

Yeah sure once they alight at Burwood/Eastwood then some seats are freed up, but why should CCN passengers deal with the inconvenience of standing when they have a long trip ahead? Its the right thing to do to remove every unnecessary 'intercity' stop in Sydney. As Gladys would blab "uhh some people had it too good, uhh, for a long time", as Constance would say, "uhhh cheeky little buggers and their perverse incentives......"

Create a bit more capacity for people actually wanting to travel long journeys. This also speeds up journey time a bit going to/from Central on Intercity trains.

745-Castle Hill wrote:
Jurassic_Joke wrote:
Next, remove Blacktown from Blue Mountains line (I very much support that Westmead got the chop too, now time to go full circle). And Granville too (weekends?) while we're at it, unless thats already been done


Why on earth would you think getting rid of Blacktown from BMT services is a good idea? That would mean people from stations between Richmond and Marayong would have to travel to Parramatta just to go back out west or catch three trains. Westmead and Eastwood were not connecting stations (except for local buses and services) so it made sense to cut them.

Also, it’s pretty easy to go and check if Granville is service by BMT trains which it is not since the Cumberland Line provides connections at Parramatta seven days a week.


Ok if you put it from that perspective I understand it a bit better and respect that point.

Why not look at the Opal data and check how many people are coming from the Richmond area towards the BMT, vs how many use it as an express from Blacktown to the City, when they just added more dedicated suburban express services on T1 last november. And then maybe more express trains from Richmond.. I just fully support any initiative to speed up journey time from the BMT, including scrapping stops that are not the most necessary. I can see why Penrith should be a stop though, because its the first major interchange with Sydney trains coming from the Mountains.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Frosty » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:22 pm

swtt wrote:
stupid_girl wrote:Passengers to Central Coast will get a seat after Eastwood passengers alight.
Peak hours train paths are extremely valuable and should not be under-utilised.
Without the suburban stops, the current peak frequency of intercity trains cannot be justified.



The other option: run more suburban express trains and make intercity passenger change trains at the outer termini - a la Southern Highlands interchanges at Campbelltown.

Otherwise you might have to remove the suburban stops totally but also potentially in lieu of the intercity train, run a suburban limited stops train in its path.


Southern Highlands trains are a bit different a 2 car diesel train vs 8 car Double Deck suburban train. Having 2 car train continue into Sydney is clearly a waste. Plus Campbelltown having a layout that can enable trains to terminate easily.

T4 Line is an interesting case study there there are all stops Thirroul trains that then continue as regular T4 services. A few ex Kiama/Dapto trains that stop at Oatley in the morning peak.

Does anybody know why there are 2 extra ex Campbelltown/Macarthur trains in the morning peak stopping at Revesby ?
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:01 pm

Frosty wrote:Does anybody know why there are 2 extra ex Campbelltown/Macarthur trains in the morning peak stopping at Revesby ?
If they are adding a stop to 2 peak Macarthur to city via airport services witch currently doesn’t make any stops between Holsworthy and Padstow then adding Revsby in would make sense as it’s a interchange station for all station local services to city via airport
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby BanksfielderIdiot823 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:02 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
745-Castle Hill wrote:
Why on earth would you think getting rid of Blacktown from BMT services is a good idea? That would mean people from stations between Richmond and Marayong would have to travel to Parramatta just to go back out west or catch three trains. Westmead and Eastwood were not connecting stations (except for local buses and services) so it made sense to cut them.

Also, it’s pretty easy to go and check if Granville is service by BMT trains which it is not since the Cumberland Line provides connections at Parramatta seven days a week.


Ok if you put it from that perspective I understand it a bit better and respect that point.

Why not look at the Opal data and check how many people are coming from the Richmond area towards the BMT, vs how many use it as an express from Blacktown to the City, when they just added more dedicated suburban express services on T1 last november. And then maybe more express trains from Richmond.. I just fully support any initiative to speed up journey time from the BMT, including scrapping stops that are not the most necessary. I can see why Penrith should be a stop though, because its the first major interchange with Sydney trains coming from the Mountains.


Don't forget, it's not just BMT riders who come from the Richmond branch, there are still people travelling from outside of the rail network to Blacktown to join the BMT services.

Say, Prospect for example. Since they're so close to Blacktown, they can just take the bus to Blacktown and join the BMT train since, just as the case for our friends on the Richmond branch that were mentioned by 745-Castle Hill, it would make no sense whatsoever to make that long ride to Parramatta just to join the BMT train that would stop right back at Blacktown some minutes later.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:22 am

Alright fair, I completely respect that viewpoint. I maintain though that Burwood and Eastwood getting the chop though was the right thing to do and if you ask me in the case of Eastwood, should’ve been done in a long time ago. Burwood was only added in Nov 2017’s big changes maybe it was a trial, clearly didn’t work out well.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby swtt » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:Alright fair, I completely respect that viewpoint. I maintain though that Burwood and Eastwood getting the chop though was the right thing to do and if you ask me in the case of Eastwood, should’ve been done in a long time ago. Burwood was only added in Nov 2017’s big changes maybe it was a trial, clearly didn’t work out well.
The Burwood stop was added to CCN as T1 Epping trains were overcrowded and could not accommodate for Burwood customers. More like a token gesture having it there for the select few CCN trains.

Eastwood on the other hand, was the right thing to do in late 2009 when the ECRL was integrated into the network. Eastwood lost all peak semi express trains from Hornsby and needed some form of capacity replacement. It is now right to remove the Eastwood stop for this upcoming TT - but definitely not before the capacity is replaced by equivalent (or better) suburban services.

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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby sydneysider » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:01 am

Campbelltown busboy wrote:
Frosty wrote:Does anybody know why there are 2 extra ex Campbelltown/Macarthur trains in the morning peak stopping at Revesby ?
If they are adding a stop to 2 peak Macarthur to city via airport services witch currently doesn’t make any stops between Holsworthy and Padstow then adding Revsby in would make sense as it’s a interchange station for all station local services to city via airport
I'll take a guess.. The two services would always overtake the service preceding it (departing holsworthy 5 mins earlier but stopping at Padstow and Riverwood) using the outer tracks and would have to wait for the earlier service to catch up before Wolli Creek. From a load balancing perspective I would've thought the better solution would have been to run the express service first (taking all the Macarthur - Holsworthy passengers heading for the airport and the city) leaving space on the next service for Padstow and Riverwood passengers but I guess that would've required a larger timetable change.

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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:47 am

sydneysider wrote:
Campbelltown busboy wrote:If they are adding a stop to 2 peak Macarthur to city via airport services witch currently doesn’t make any stops between Holsworthy and Padstow then adding Revsby in would make sense as it’s a interchange station for all station local services to city via airport
I'll take a guess.. The two services would always overtake the service preceding it (departing holsworthy 5 mins earlier but stopping at Padstow and Riverwood) using the outer tracks and would have to wait for the earlier service to catch up before Wolli Creek. From a load balancing perspective I would've thought the better solution would have been to run the express service first (taking all the Macarthur - Holsworthy passengers heading for the airport and the city) leaving space on the next service for Padstow and Riverwood passengers but I guess that would've required a larger timetable change.
The current 2 morning peak stopping pattens for Macarthur to the city are all stops to Ingleburn then Glenfeild all stops to Revsby then Sydenham St Peters Redfern Central then all stations around the city circle via Museum and there is all stops to Holsworthy then Padstow Riverwood Wolli Creek Then all stops to city circle via airport then there are the all stop services that start from Revsby
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:48 am

The new Region 6 timetables for 30/9 including routes 420 and 418 are no longer available on Transport Info this morning.
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Re: Route/Timetable changes 23rd and 30th September 2018

Postby swtt » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:28 am

New timetable for 420N might show up later?
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