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S Set Retirement

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:03 pm

Hi guys, which S set will be withdrawn first?Also I heard a rumor that B series Waratahs wont be replacing the S sets but the OScars will. So what is repacing what?
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby boronia » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:47 pm

Are you talking about NSW trains
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:57 pm

Not really, S Sets are owned by Sydney Trains not NSW Trainlink.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:59 pm

idontknow556 wrote:Hi guys, which S set will be withdrawn first?Also I heard a rumor that B series Waratahs wont be replacing the S sets but the OScars will. So what is repacing what?

Anyone's guess as which one will be withdrawn first.

I have also heard the rumour that they will not replace the S sets but this contradicts what the premier is quoted to have said recently so we will have to wait and see on that issue. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/new ... 4z5mf.html
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby boronia » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:46 pm

idontknow556 wrote:Not really, S Sets are owned by Sydney Trains not NSW Trainlink.

I did say "NSW trains" (as "trains in NSW"), not NSW Trainlink.

It was more my wondering why this in the Perth/WA section?

As for original question, it is a bit premature to speculate which set will be first to go.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:56 pm

Oops, sorry guys it's in the wrong section. How do I change the section? I am new to this.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby boronia » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:03 pm

Oscars are not likely to be available to replace S sets for another couple of years until the new IC trains come on line.

The NSW Media Circus has been promising that the S sets will be replaced before next summer, or at least most of them
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:04 pm

idontknow556 wrote:Oops, sorry guys it's in the wrong section. How do I change the section? I am new to this.

It has been moved.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:26 pm

I've noticed that the new IC trains look like OScars with Waratah doors, the interior looks like your standard M set based interior. And I am pretty sure that many people will not like the fact that the direction of the seats cannot be changed. Imaging sitting facing backwards for at least an hour.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby ajw373 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:48 pm

What do you mean which will go first? Plenty have already gone. And you do realise unlike the Tangaras and the trains that have come later the actual carriages in S set can and are moved around.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:59 pm

I meant by which S set will be withdrawn first
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby ajw373 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:36 pm

idontknow556 wrote:I meant by which S set will be withdrawn first


And as I said rather pointless. s sets are in name only, they move between sets. And as also said the carriages have already started to be removed so the first has already happened.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:42 pm

Sorry, I didn't really know what you meant
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby 3805 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:21 pm

As there are major timetable changes on the way (again...), there is a good chance that quite a few S Sets may still be around for some time to come. But like everything, the situation is fluid and changes constantly.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby boronia » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:33 pm

There will be major changes when the EC lines closes in September. B sets should start appearing from then, probably replacing S sets then.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:36 pm

Is there a farewell tour for the S sets?
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby Aurora » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:40 pm

In fleet terms, B Sets are absolutely replacing S Sets. However I would fully expect S Sets to remain as a backup and for standby duties as there is no growth from the B Set delivery. They will be a like for like replacement.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby Scott4570 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:53 pm

Since the year 2014, when the bulk of the S set Fleet had been scrapped, the retained 48 x 4car S sets had been maintained in their 4car blocks, in line with the policy of the other set types (K, C, T, M, V and H).
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby Bus883&1022 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:26 am

Sydney trains told me on FB that they’ll retain a couple in their heritage fleet
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby swtt » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:36 am

Aurora wrote:In fleet terms, B Sets are absolutely replacing S Sets. However I would fully expect S Sets to remain as a backup and for standby duties as there is no growth from the B Set delivery. They will be a like for like replacement.
From the ECRL shutdown that should free up some sets, as the rolling stock requirement for working the Northern line actually reduces.

The next stage would obviously be NIF roll out which allows Oscars to be cascaded back into suburban work. There is a possibility that the H sets will be K+C set retirement replacements as well given the fleet size.

The last step would be Bankstown shutdown, which will further drive down rolling stock requirements in a significant way.

So for the next 10 years, don't expect any brand new, flash looking suburban trains off the factory production line on the Sydney Trains network :) The A set delivery is one of its kind and perhaps a once in a lifetime situation. :)

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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby grog » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:45 am

The B set contract allows an option of an additional 48 sets - I’m sure there will be a lot of fleet planning going on in the lead up to those option dates.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby swtt » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:12 pm

grog wrote:The B set contract allows an option of an additional 48 sets - I’m sure there will be a lot of fleet planning going on in the lead up to those option dates.


48 sets = 96x 4 car sets.

Probably the first round of Tangara replacements! :P
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:50 pm

No guarantee that the option for the extra 48 sets will be taken up.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby moa999 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:58 pm

All depends on whether there are further Metro conversions in the plan I suspect. Otherwise at some point you have to replace the Tangaras.

(Tangara replacement needed for common door position across the whole fleet which probably allows you to do PSDs and ATO in certain sections)
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Re: S Set Retirement

Postby mandonov » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:11 pm

I think what's being ignored here is the need for fleet growth for when frequencies are increased.

With the relatively short distance Bankstown Line being replaced by additional services on the longer T2 and T8 through the City Circle, fleet growth will be necessary in the medium term. Couple that with the rollout of the new signalling system on T4 and T8 to enable more services, the need for more trains is apparent.

What I see as likely is this:
    2018/19: Initial B's replace the S one for one by the end of next year.
    2019- : NIF deliveries focus on V retirement.
    2019/20?: B options used as a C/K replacement and growth.
    2021- : H cascade used for further growth.
    ~2028: T replacement, in line with the current refurbishment that is meant to last at least 10 years.
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