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State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Frosty » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:00 pm

^At least now with STA depots there seems to be more variety in each depot. All 3 Eastern Region depots have Volvo, Scania & Mercedes buses. Ryde & Willoughby have a mix of Volvo & Scania plus Ryde having a significant Merc gas fleet. Finally Northern Region with almost all Volvos with a few exceptions.
I'm wondering how MAN & Merc buses perform in the heat we know the O405NH gas buses are hopeless in any condition.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Swift » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:57 am

The two vales have never had a Scania though.
MAN SL200 & Mercedes 0 305:essentially the same bus.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:39 pm

It looks like Transit Systems Kingsgrove are starting to retire their 14.5M Scanias. 3453 has been withdrawn.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:11 pm

I am assuming that W will get new Mercedes 0500LE euro 6s to replace the Scania L113CRBs.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:14 pm

I've noticed that some Scania K310UB CB80s have been cascaded to L from K. Wonder if they will finally retire some of the Scania 14.5Ms
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Stu » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:38 pm

^ These transfers are due to the new Gemilang bodied Scania units delivered to L, this allowed the handful of CC bodied K310 Scania units to be transferred to K, Scania K280 Bustech body (2663-2670 growth buses) from K to T. The handful of K320 Scania Bustech units that were previously on loan from L to T have remained at T permanently since this last round of transfers in October.

The Scania 14.5 units will be withdrawn as new buses are meant to be delivered towards the end of the year. 3453 was withdrawn after the morning peak - 01/08/2018.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby idontknow556 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:43 pm

3426 has been withdrawn from Kingsgrove following an accident.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:37 pm

Any word how long until 14.5s finally disappear? Been seeing lots lately.
Speaking of Orana Scania L113 series, I was surprised to score TNSW livered 3727 Scania low floor on a 353 the other evening. Only ever see the usual later generation Scanias and Merc gassies appear on this run. This was a fun change. The interior looks refreshingly uncluttered compared to later stuff. 3727 still has it's M run plate. Must be an R unit.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Stu » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:06 pm

^ The Scania 14.5 units at TSA are meant to be retired in July.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby gld59 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:32 pm

Stu wrote:^ The Scania 14.5 units at TSA are meant to be retired in July.

That'll improve things for airport passengers (barring capacity issues, of course). The two oldest would have to go about then in any case, with the rest by the end of the year. (Aug-Dec 93.)

STA should continue by throwing away another 3 this month (Jul 93), and with the (im)practicalities of replacement over the new year, it'd certainly make sense to me if even the final Feb 94 bodied pair are gone by the end of the year.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Michael Bamborough » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:20 am

Stu wrote:^ The Scania 14.5 units at TSA are meant to be retired in July.


We need new High Capacity bus Vehicles(14.5 or Bendy or Double Decker) to properly replace the 14.5 Scania Orana Buses. Regular 12.5m buses ain't gonna cut it.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Swift » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Those Scania long buses might have been poorly put together rattle traps with a fancy facade, but they rarely leave people behind who just want to get to their destination and have half a chance of getting a seat along the way. 12m are frequently a terrible let down in comparison.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby LB608 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:31 pm

3420 has been sold
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby boronia » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:23 pm

Swift wrote:Those Scania long buses might have been poorly put together rattle traps with a fancy facade, but they rarely leave people behind who just want to get to their destination and have half a chance of getting a seat along the way. 12m are frequently a terrible let down in comparison.

It is always intruiging to watch these buses on Anzac Pde services. A 12m bus comes along and it gets packed to capacity. Right behind it is a 14.5 with a dozen or so pax.

Apps now make it easy to decide whether to cram or wait a couple more minutes for a seat.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby neilrex » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:08 pm

I remember when they started using those buses on Victoria Road services, it was a big improvement.

IIRC that was about a year before the Anzac Bridge opened. In those days it could take 40 minutes to get to Darling Street.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Swift » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:15 pm

They were brilliantly utilised on 288s between Epping and the city. It was almost like they were customised for that route, hence why M had the largest fleet of them.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Frosty » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Can't forget on on 400/410/420 services where they had exclusive fleet for those routes very useful on Rockdale to International Airport during morning peak or between Eastgardens & BJ. The only high capacity buses allowed through the lower level of Westfield Eastgardens be a loss for the 391/392 where 18m bendy buses can't be used.

Felt weird recently seeing 2 14.5m buses on the 309 within a space of 30mins inbound and the odd one-offs on the 301 & 303.

There will only be the sole Volgren 14.5m low-floor left after the L113TRBs are retired will it have its own roster or be merged into the bendy roster.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Swift » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:54 pm

STA need to obtain CDC units second hand in the interim.
They won't know themselves with rear steer.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:54 pm

Frosty wrote:There will only be the sole Volgren 14.5m low-floor left after the L113TRBs are retired will it have its own roster or be merged into the bendy roster.


Or we could just order more ;) oh wait, but the poms said no :( The ‘Britishization’ of Sydney just continues on and on

I was reading about some London politics, and back in 2011, Conservative Mayor (British equivalent of our Liberal National Party) Boris Johnson as part of an election promise removed bendy buses from London with the excuse that they create congestion and that they’ll be replaced with end-all be-all double decker buses or short 12m buses.

And then look at us, we’ve literally just gone the exact same route. Replacing long buses with short ones. Sydney is not London...ugh. I wonder if our existing bendy buses will even live to their full life or will they just be sold off somewhere else before then to fulfil the promise made in 2017 (phase them out). Like, look how useful the capacity is on the 333 late at night which carries buses full of club-goers (anyone remember the overnight overcrowded 380 operated with VSTM), when traffic is lower so congestion isn’t an issue.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Frosty » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:34 pm

Partial solution could be increasing the capacity of existing 12.5m buses to at least 80 passengers by removing seats and increasing standing area which would perfectly fine on Anzac Parade services to prepare for Light Rail and its minimal seating or along the 304/309/309X &310X services where journeys are relatively short.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Cazza » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:49 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
Frosty wrote:There will only be the sole Volgren 14.5m low-floor left after the L113TRBs are retired will it have its own roster or be merged into the bendy roster.


Or we could just order more ;)


The Volgren 14.5m buses (TAGs) we have in Brisbane are amazing. Not only do they sound incredible but they are also absolute machines!! Come on up and try them as they cruise down the SE Busway at 90km/h and you will appreciate their beauty :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTlKnwjomnE

Re. the Hillsbus 14.5m ones. I don't think they'd work overly well in the State Transit sense. Since they only have the single leaf rear door (which suits the M2 express services allowing for more seats for the long journey and limited number of stops services), dwell times will be significantly increased. I'm sure Tony will let everyone know about that :lol: They would be better off ordering more artics or buying some fresh 14.5s from Volgren. By all means take them if they're up for grabs, but they should be dedicated to Limited Stops or express services if possible (in that case, probably best based at Brookvale).
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Swift » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:14 pm

Cazza wrote:
Re. the Hillsbus 14.5m ones. I don't think they'd work overly well in the State Transit sense. Since they only have the single leaf rear door (which suits the M2 express services allowing for more seats for the long journey and limited number of stops services), dwell times will be significantly increased. I'm sure Tony will let everyone know about that :lol: They would be better off ordering more artics or buying some fresh 14.5s from Volgren. By all means take them if they're up for grabs, but they should be dedicated to Limited Stops or express services if possible (in that case, probably best based at Brookvale).

Hasn't stopped STA operating the first batch of B12BLEAs with Custom bodywork in varied routes. One problem with operating 14.5s out of Brookvale is there is currently no authorisation to operate that vehicle type around there. They are restricted to pre-approved routes only.
The 14.5s definitely fulfil a niche role on busy routes with minimal tight turns. They are widely employed in both Eastern and Western Europe. STA would be well aware how useful they have been in transporting the crowds.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:06 pm

Cazza wrote:

Re. the Hillsbus 14.5m ones. I don't think they'd work overly well in the State Transit sense. Since they only have the single leaf rear door (which suits the M2 express services allowing for more seats for the long journey and limited number of stops services), dwell times will be significantly increased.


Actually STA’s sole 14.5m Volgren has a single leaf rear door too. What’s more irritating is that there’s also only one Opal reader at that door instead of two as usual - that’s what slows down exiting that vehicle. STA would probably have more of an issue with the fact that these Hillsbus Volgrens have a private seat behind the driver, which seems to be a huge ideological no-no in any buses they have (0405NH CNG Citaro’s excepted, but everything that came after that...)

I think it sounds like a good idea if STA considered at least ‘renting’ some of the 14.5m Volgrens from Hillsbus to address the capacity drop that will inevitably come when the last 14.5m Orana’s are retired. If Hillsbus were keen + if they don’t need as many anymore since the Metro opened - much cheaper than buying new buses and also gives the buses a useful new life. I do concur with Swift they are quite useful particularly on the 288 route
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby Frosty » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:00 pm

A possible option could be to remove some of Port Botany's bendy buses probably the 1.5 door buses and re-allocate them to Willoughby. P has some extra bendies if they no longer use them on the Botany Rd services as prior to November 2018 and removal of bendies from R off the 304. 14.5m buses however would be useful on 391/392 services due to the infamous Eastgardens hump.
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Re: State Transit / Transit Systems Ansair Orana Retirement

Postby In Transit » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:00 pm

Frosty wrote:A possible option could be to remove some of Port Botany's bendy buses probably the 1.5 door buses and re-allocate them to Willoughby. P has some extra bendies if they no longer use them on the Botany Rd services as prior to November 2018 and removal of bendies from R off the 304. 14.5m buses however would be useful on 391/392 services due to the infamous Eastgardens hump.


With the slight complication being artics are still used on Botany Rd and on the 304 - and in fact more are required on these corridors, not less, to meet existing demand,which is also growing rapidly.
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