Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
stupid_girl
Posts: 933
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:25 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by stupid_girl »

boxythingy wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:40 pm Here's hoping that the $8.05 weekend cap does not rise in line with inflation for at least until well after the recession ends and most people get back onto their two feet again. If the cap had been increased to $4 or $5, perhaps it would be tolerable if it rose $0.05 every two years or so.
I guess the weekend cap will stay at 50% of weekday cap.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by boxythingy »

Are my calculations correct?

Train1 OP $2.52 + Bus1 OP $1.60 - $2.00 transfer discount within 1 hour = $2.12? 40c saving?
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Fleet Lists »

Yes I think that is one of the anomalies
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by boxythingy »

This anomaly can be resolved after temporary -50% rate reverts back to -30% for off peak fares by raising the cap from $2.00 to a figure in line with inflation rises. I think it would be around $2.30 considering the number of instances that the former Sunday cap had increased.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Linto63 »

boxythingy wrote: Are my calculations correct?

Train1 OP $2.52 + Bus1 OP $1.60 - $2.00 transfer discount within 1 hour = $2.12? 40c saving?
Not quite, with OP discount temporarily 50%, is now $1.80 + $1.60 - $2.00 = $1.40, although journey planner shows as costing $1.80.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by boxythingy »

Oops sorry, the way the previous and current info was set out was confusing!

Regardless, the transfer discount is still $2.00 (Adult) , $1 for concessions, and both are reduced by 50% after fulfilling the first 8 journeys.

Confirmed speaking with someone on 131 500 after tedious menu selection process

I can see how all of the sudden some off peak buses will be nearing capacity because people will find out about this incentive sooner or later. This shows flaws in the official reasoning about "fairness" and keeping capacity in check through what is clearly nothing more but a fare rise!!! Keep calm and carry on working from home :idea:
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Fleet Lists »

Has anyone actually tried this? Maybe the system is clever enough to know what is happening and only refund $1.60 - the lesser of the two fares.
When the $2.00 was first introduced it was mentioned that the $2.00 was set so that it was equal or more than the lowest fare and the computer could be programmed to do that without giving it any publicity.

And in reply to boxythingy's second last post, once the discount goes back to 30%, there is no longer any problem so raising the $2.00 to $2.30 wont make any difference - I dont think that will happen.
So if the computer does not reduce the $2.00 while the lesser fare is less,the problem is only temporary, so the powers that be may not worry about it.
The fact that the journey planner shows $1.80 makes me think that the computer does reduce the $2.00 to $1.60 (the lesser of the two fares) in such circumstances, so that there is no problem.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by boxythingy »

Actually they have updated this today (with no advance warning/written statement prior to today)
While we are running the 50% discount for off-peak fares, some fares are below $2. If the second trip costs less than the $2 transfer discount, the discount will be capped at the second trip price.

In the event where a second trip’s transfer discount equals the cost of the second trip fare, there will be no discount on a third trip.
Screenshot of Google webcache
Image

https://transportnsw.info/tickets-opal/ ... en%20modes.

At least there still won't be any loss in maximum public transport usage as demonstrated by these poor timetabling decisions after two or more supposedly new timetable improvements and realignments:
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Fleet Lists »

Pretty much what I said before.
But interestingly they mention that if the "second" trip is less than $2.00 the discount will be reduced to the amount of that second trip. But what if the first trip is less than $2. I would assume it also applies there.
Living in the Shire.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Linto63 »

If the second journey is below $2.00, the user is charged the first fare. E.g. a $1.80 train followed by a $1.60 bus, user pays $1.80, while if a $1.60 bus followed by $1.80 train, user is charged $1.60.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Fleet Lists »

That doesnt realy make sense. They should be charged the higher fare irrespective of which comes first.
It would be interesting to see what happens if the first is $1.60 and the second one exceeds $2.
Living in the Shire.
Linto63
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Linto63 »

Fleet Lists wrote: It would be interesting to see what happens if the first is $1.60 and the second one exceeds $2.
Adds the fares and deducts the $2 as expected.
Passenger 57
Posts: 934
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Passenger 57 »

Another rule to remember for the next three months: take a 0-3kn bus trip before boarding a train in the off-peak to receive a discount of 20 to 40 cents on the Adult fare.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by boxythingy »

I am so confused. So there is a discount if it's bus then train, but not train and then bus?
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Fleet Lists »

No -if the second trip is less than 2.00 irrespective whether it is train or bus, the transfer discount is reduced to the amount of the second trip. But if the first trip is less than $2.00 again irrespective whether it is bus or train, the transfer discount remains at $2.00
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
boxythingy
Posts: 3891
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Anything not 'B-set' w/problms

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by boxythingy »

Have they breached the maximum regulated fares for Bus1 and LightRail1?
ImageImage
https://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/files/shar ... r-2019.pdf
User avatar
swtt
Posts: 5666
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:49 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by swtt »

boxythingy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:55 pm Have they breached the maximum regulated fares for Bus1 and LightRail1?
ImageImage
https://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/files/shar ... r-2019.pdf
Add GST and you'll obtain the $3.20 for the 0 to 3 km band:
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 23803
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: The Shire

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Fleet Lists »

The great difficulty I have is trying to "determine whether schedule 1 applies" If it does not apply here and schedule 2 applies it leaves it more wide open to give it greater flexibility as it says in the preliminary note 3.
I find note 3 wide open to interpretation.
Living in the Shire.
Passenger 57
Posts: 934
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by Passenger 57 »

Fleet Lists wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:48 am The great difficulty I have is trying to "determine whether schedule 1 applies
I feel invisible sometimes:
I wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:19 pm TfNSW claims in their pricing proposal the increase in the 0-3km bus and light rail is "aligned to the appropriate maximum fares as defined in Schedule 1 of the determination". IPART concurs that this is so in their fact sheet.
If you dig into the definitions of the determination you can read that "Regulated Fares" are ex-GST, confirming swtt's assertion, which is a bit bizarre as the option to pay without GST isn't available to most of us but I suppose that allows for revenue to be protected should a GST-increase occur during the life of the determination. It really could be clearer though.
rhyst
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:59 am

Re: Ipart Opal Fare review 2020 to 2024

Post by rhyst »

Linto63 wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:27 pm If the second journey is below $2.00, the user is charged the first fare. E.g. a $1.80 train followed by a $1.60 bus, user pays $1.80, while if a $1.60 bus followed by $1.80 train, user is charged $1.60.
Yeah this is what happened to me with one of my journeys on the weekend
Train $2.24 + bus 1.60. I was only charged the $2.24. The bus trip detail showed $3.20 with a discount of $3.20
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”