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NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Aurora » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:45 am

Peak hour or weekends - which one are you asking about?
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boronia » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:24 am

Michael Bamborough wrote:Hey guys just curious but do all Blue Mountains Intercity peak hour services run 8 carriage services? Or is it just a couple selected weekend services?

Most, if not all, of the weekday peak services are 8 cars.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Stonesourscotty » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:07 pm

Atleast 7 Tangara rakes out on a Sunday on T1 this is surely unusual?
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Linto63 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Not since the November 2017 timetable changes with circa 10 sets rostered on T1, but before then it was almost exclusively Waratahs.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boronia » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:36 pm

Odd structures appearing on Plat 11 at Central.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby mandonov » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:02 pm

Looks to me like a base for a crane.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby sunnyyan » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:45 pm

Man hit and killed by train today at Riverwood
https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-ac ... cd55532405
When I passed through Sydenham at 3:30pm, the screens were saying the line was closed in the Up direction from Revesby to Kingsgrove.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby idontknow556 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:51 pm

Would you rather lose your phone or your life?Some guy jumped onto the tracks at Redfern to retrive his phone while a train was coming in the opposite direction.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:34 pm

Town Hall station has sprung a leak. Platform 3 has been closed off.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boxythingy » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:24 pm


Using tap on and tap off data as data for determining whether trains are on time is simply ridiculous. Consider the following situation:

1) a train is 15min late
2) the platform continues piling up as more passengers arrive and tap on later, compared to those who tapped on earlier, waiting for the train to arrive based on the original schedule time.
3) Assuming that passengers arriving earlier comprise 20% of those who would have boarded by then and 80% are those who arrived later, and would have not caught that service, but the following service.
4) The train journey from A to B takes just as long (assume +4min extra, which is still 'on time') as it would have if it had turned up on time as per timetable.

Result:
Original schedule
A station 8:15 a.m.
B station 8:20 a.m. (total travel time 5min)

Delayed service:
A station 8:30 a.m.
B station 8:39 a.m. (total travel time 9min)

Assuming I turned up at the station at 8:13 a.m. and tapped on, it would have taken me 19min extra to reach my final destination! This is for what should normally be a 5min journey!

Not only that, you would probably get caught up in 110% capacity, an extra squeezy journey, people would still be late to work BUT the on-time data would still say all good! :shock: :roll:
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:51 pm

I have read that post three times so far and it still does not make any sense to me.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:01 pm

It's in relation to new "on time running" calculation that was quietly dropped by the government as an exclusive to 7 news.

The idea is basically that if every train on a 15 minute frequency line is running 15 minutes late (ie still normal frequency services), the network can be reported as running close to 100% on time performance, instead of 0%.

The "dashboard" data is available here: https://tabanalytics.transport.nsw.gov. ... Card1KX800

I'm surprised Friday AM is only an average 9 minute delay when almost all peak CCN trains took an additional 30 minutes between Woy Woy and Central.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby idontknow556 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:03 pm

There's a bit of variety of train types this weekend with K,C, M and A sets this weekend which is interesting. This is probably because of the Western Line trackwork which is interesting as the T1 doesn't usually run through the City Circle and these sets don't run on the Western Line.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby jxeeno » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:52 pm

boxythingy wrote:

Result:
Original schedule
A station 8:15 a.m.
B station 8:20 a.m. (total travel time 5min)

Delayed service:
A station 8:30 a.m.
B station 8:39 a.m. (total travel time 9min)

Assuming I turned up at the station at 8:13 a.m. and tapped on, it would have taken me 19min extra to reach my final destination! This is for what should normally be a 5min journey!

Not only that, you would probably get caught up in 110% capacity, an extra squeezy journey, people would still be late to work BUT the on-time data would still say all good! :shock: :roll:


I don't think you quite understand how the metric works. If it takes 19 minutes extra to reach your final destination, then the customer delay is 19 minutes.

Basically, what they are doing for each Opal customer journey is:

  • Determining the best route the passenger should take if all trains were to schedule based on the fastest available service(s) after you tap on
  • Determining the best route the passenger would likely take considering actual on-time running for the day using the best available service(s) after you tap on

The key is that they're comparing the two arrival times.

When operations don’t go to plan, customers are allocated to the most appropriate alternative service and the arrival time of that service is compared with the timetabled arrival time of the planned service.

See https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/data-a ... er-on-time

The customer delay metric is the difference between the two arrival times. In your example below, the calculation will be:

  • Normal travel time: 8:13am tap on - 8:20am arrive
  • Actual travel time: 8:13am tap on - 8:39am arrive
  • Customer delay: 8:39am - 8:20am = 19 minutes

Apart from the several additional seconds it takes to disemark a busier train, I can't see how a more fully loaded train would result in passengers being more late for work.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby sd1800 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:11 am

Just spotted the rail motor society 600 class DMUs heading north between Mt Colah and Mt Kuring-gai at about 7am. Packed with passengers so on a day trip no doubt.

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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Artzy » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:13 am

Noticed a B Set Waratah (I think B2?) on Saturday morning heading out to Leppington on the T2, not being from Sydney I don’t keep much track of this stuff but when did these enter service?


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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:37 am

see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83550&start=225 and the next page for discussion so we dont need to repeat it all here.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby swtt » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:34 pm

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/lab ... 503j4.html


Obviously the ALP doesn't have a clue what they're talking about - there will be no Burwood to Bondi via Airport bus very soon! So which one will they increase? 400 or 420?

SMH wrote:Labor vows to lower ticket fares for airport trains

Labor has promised to lower the cost to passengers of travelling on the train to Sydney Airport and scrap the so-called station access fee altogether for people who work at Kingsford Smith, if it is elected to government next year.

A day after the Berejiklian government announced that a new $2.6 billion motorway link to the airport would not be tolled, the Opposition pledged to help road congestion at Mascot by cutting the cost of train fares and increasing bus services to Australia's largest airport.

Under the plan, the station access fee on the airport rail line would be cut from $14.30 to $5, and abolished altogether for the tens of thousands of people who work at the airport.

Labor leader Luke Foley said it would cost the state about $30 million a year to cut the station access fee, but emphasised that the policy would help bust congestion on roads around the airport while boosting public transport usage.

“Our priority here is to get cars off streets around the airport and get people onto trains,” he said.

Mr Foley said the promise to cut the fee to $5, instead of removing it completely for airport passengers, was a trade off between the cost to the state budget and wanting to encourage more people to use trains.

“We think getting it down to $5 would provide a big incentive for people,” he said.

A one-way journey from central Sydney to the domestic and international terminals costs an adult passenger $18.70 during peak hours. Of that single-trip fare, $13.80 is for the station access fee.

The access fee does not count towards the daily travel cap for holders of Opal cards.

Under the contract with the private operator of the stations on the airport line, the government is entitled to 85 per cent of the sales revenue – almost all of which comes from the station access fees.


The Airport Link Company paid the state almost $87 million last year, and the amount is set to top $100 million this year based on patronage growth.

But Transport Minister Andrew Constance said the Opposition leader had failed to outline the full cost of his policy, which he said could exceed $1.5 billion to the state over the next 11 years.

“He now has to come back ... and tell the community how he is going to pay for it, and which services he is going to cut to pay for it,” he said.

Mr Constance sidestepped questions about whether he would rule out cutting the station access fee, but said it was needed so that the government could put on an extra 200 train services a week on the T2 Airport line.

Labor's plan to boost bus services would involve putting on a new service from Miranda in Sydney's south to the airport via St George, and increasing the frequency of the Burwood-to-Bondi buses that travel via the domestic and international terminals.

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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:56 pm

swtt wrote:https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/labor-vows-to-lower-ticket-fares-for-airport-trains-20180913-p503j4.html


Obviously the ALP doesn't have a clue what they're talking about - there will be no Burwood to Bondi via Airport bus very soon! So which one will they increase? 400 or 420?


They can always change that back.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boronia » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:16 pm

swtt wrote:https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/labor-vows-to-lower-ticket-fares-for-airport-trains-20180913-p503j4.html


Obviously the ALP doesn't have a clue what they're talking about - there will be no Burwood to Bondi via Airport bus very soon! So which one will they increase? 400 or 420?


They could increase the 420 between Burwood (or maybe just Campsie) and EG.

This would increase services between T1 and EG even more, with the option to connect with the more frequent 400 from EG to BJI.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby ed24 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:26 pm

Some very early Metro branding appearing in Chatswood! (Post Office Lane)
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby boronia » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:14 pm

Mr Constance sidestepped questions about whether he would rule out cutting the station access fee, but said it was needed so that the government could put on an extra 200 train services a week on the T2 Airport line.


The fees might be needed to pay for the new "toll free" road link direct to the airport, which might reduce demand for train services.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:37 pm

boronia wrote:
Mr Constance sidestepped questions about whether he would rule out cutting the station access fee, but said it was needed so that the government could put on an extra 200 train services a week on the T2 Airport line.




Did Constance actually say T2 Airport Line instead of T8?
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:41 pm

Strange timetabling today, some Penrith trains are only running as passenger in one direction. They run as normal to Penrith but then run empty as non-passenger trains back from Penrith to North Sydney. They then form another passenger service from North Sydney to Penrith.

eg runs 750, 755, 760, 765
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - July to December 2018

Postby Frosty » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:55 pm

andy_centralcoast wrote:Strange timetabling today, some Penrith trains are only running as passenger in one direction. They run as normal to Penrith but then run empty as non-passenger trains back from Penrith to North Sydney. They then form another passenger service from North Sydney to Penrith.

eg runs 750, 755, 760, 765


Its for Defqon Festival at Regatta Centre.

Similarly strange timetabling on Airport Line with trains all stops trains to Kingsgrove then inbound starts at Wolli Creek into the City to Ashfield.
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