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Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby moa999 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:12 pm

With or without DOO,
Could you build in an automated ramp (much like some buses (not in NSW) have)

Either in platform (but would require common door) or on the fleet, say one marked door per train.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby simonl » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:01 pm

moa999 wrote:With or without DOO,
Could you build in an automated ramp (much like some buses (not in NSW) have)

Either in platform (but would require common door) or on the fleet, say one marked door per train.

Wouldn't that require common height platforms? Or are you saying a ramp that handles all heights, perhaps?

Either way, putting in a ramp seems like it would be impossible to have level boarding, which doesn't make it a step forward. Backward, actually.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby moa999 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:52 pm

Fully level boarding and minimal gap requires straight platforms - the trains have to be on angle/cant on curved platforms which increase the gap.
And curved platforms on many lines is not simple to fix.

Found this system from Portland Light Rail
https://youtu.be/U22FndBHBc0

Albeit you'd need something slightly bigger at many Sydney stations

This style of bus ramp might also work
https://youtu.be/0k2uDTkZKBg
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:57 am

Even if they could be made to work the maintenance standard would need to be a lot higher than on STA buses. It was so poor that most, except for the middle entry vehicles, have been converted to manual years ago.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby Glen » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:58 am

Auckland trains have automatic ramps in the middle carriage of each 3 car set:

http://www.transdev.co.nz/travel-inform ... le-travel/

See 1:30 mark of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHQyh0G6I7I
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby simonl » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:17 am

moa999 wrote:Fully level boarding and minimal gap requires straight platforms - the trains have to be on angle/cant on curved platforms which increase the gap.
And curved platforms on many lines is not simple to fix.

Found this system from Portland Light Rail
https://youtu.be/U22FndBHBc0

Albeit you'd need something slightly bigger at many Sydney stations

This style of bus ramp might also work
https://youtu.be/0k2uDTkZKBg

Well, the gap can be much smaller with straight platforms. I'd put it like that. You could just have the platform at the correct height for the current curve, which would obviously be complicated by platforms that change curvature along their length.

To get that Portland system working in Sydney you would need something massively bigger! Not slightly. Some stations have very significant curvature, e.g. Wollstonecraft.

The bus ramp could work but would add to dwells and also doesn't really provide for the case where the platform is level.

It was an interesting idea about putting the ramp on the platform. That would only work with ATO. Drivers can't really stop on the mark that accurately or I presume we'd implement platform screen doors.

Perhaps having two ramps, one for level boarding and one for lower platforms would work?
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby matthewg » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:39 am

simonl wrote:It was an interesting idea about putting the ramp on the platform. That would only work with ATO. Drivers can't really stop on the mark that accurately or I presume we'd implement platform screen doors.


ATO can overrun too. There are quite a number of metros with platform doors where the trains are still manually driven. Accurate stopping is a skill the drivers learn.

I believe some New York have platform gap fillers that are part of the platform. When the train comes to a stand the gap fillers deploy and fill the gap between the platform and the train.

What is cheaper - fixing 100s of platforms or fitting filler/ramps to 100s of train carriages?
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby neilrex » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 pm

If you want to know what is cheaper, the answer is probably cheaper and more plentiful disabled person taxis.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:10 am

SimonL wrote:
It was an interesting idea about putting the ramp on the platform. That would only work with ATO. Drivers can't really stop on the mark that accurately or I presume we'd implement platform screen doors.


MTM have made it work with a simple concrete slab - very effectively. But not much good without a standardised train layout.
Last edited by Tonymercury on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby boronia » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:46 am

Glen wrote:Auckland trains have automatic ramps in the middle carriage of each 3 car set:

http://www.transdev.co.nz/travel-inform ... le-travel/

See 1:30 mark of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHQyh0G6I7I

Wow, a single deck train that needs internal steps :roll: :roll:
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby tonyp » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:58 am

neilrex wrote:If you want to know what is cheaper, the answer is probably cheaper and more plentiful disabled person taxis.

No, that's NOT the answer! It's also about much more than wheelchairs.

Listen, if the tram industry could achieve stepless gangways and level access, no mean engineering feat in a tram, then the bus industry can bloody-well get off its butt and do the same. Oh wait .... in Europe it has! Like more than 20 years ago.

With trains, Perth has already shown the way.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby tonyp » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:09 am

boronia wrote:Wow, a single deck train that needs internal steps :roll: :roll:

It looks like they have European-style low platforms in Auckland (?). This would mean that they've had to jump through the same sort of design hoops as in Europe where they've developed low-floor trains but haven't solved the transitions over the bogies and between the carriages as they've been able to do with trams, so there's a high floor over this area.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby Linto63 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:47 am

With all trams stops in Sydney having been built within the last 20 years, i.e. after DDA compliance had been legislated for all new builds, hardly surprising. Go to Melbourne, and it's a different story. Likewise Perth rebuilt or at least refurbished most of its stations as part of its 1990s electrification project, so again the requirements of DDA would have been factored in.

As far as buses go, I think all buses are required to be DDA compliant by 2020. State Transit is nearly there with just the last of the Ansair bodied Scanias being high floors.
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby Glen » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:14 am

neilrex wrote:If you want to know what is cheaper, the answer is probably cheaper and more plentiful disabled person taxis.

Maybe, but that fails compliance with the DDA.

Linto63 wrote:As far as buses go, I think all buses are required to be DDA compliant by 2020.

2022
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Re: Automated wheelchair ramps on Trains

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:30 am

Glen wrote:
neilrex wrote:If you want to know what is cheaper, the answer is probably cheaper and more plentiful disabled person taxis.

Maybe, but that fails compliance with the DDA.




And fails the expectations of many other people.
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