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Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:29 am
by Stu
STA have been successful in tendering for Night Ride services - commencing in March.

N10 (possibly R)
N11 (possibly P)
N90 (possibly M)
N91 (NEW) (possibly Y)

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:13 pm
by Fleet Lists
N10 and N11 from City to Cronulla and Sutherland currently Punchbowl I think.
N90 City to Hornsby via Chatswood - Transdev. Will they retain N80 to Hornsby via Strathfield?
N91 - What is this new route?

With this new route, does this mean the foreshadowed review of Nightride services is to take place in March?

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:37 pm
by swtt
Fleet Lists wrote:N91 - What is this new route?



See my avatar :)

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:51 pm
by stajourneyman
This is very unexpected news.

How can the STA (without using the typical private route operator "screw the employees to death" formula) manage to knock off all competitors to achieve this?

I know they did get a few Nightride runs in the very beginning (including to Campbelltown?), but they have never succeeded, or possibly even attempted to, since then.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:59 pm
by Jurassic_Joke
Burk. State Transit you say? Really hope that that WAVERLEY will not be in charge with running the new Bondi-Macquarie Park NightRide. It’ll be nothing but Bustech Midi operating it as we know from the overnight 380 and that overcrowding overnight is really definitely among the worst in Sydney

I’m excited for the new routes though. It's honestly a bit eye-opening the ECRL has been left ignored past midnight for all this time (and those late night/early morning 288/290 runs don't really count).

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:13 pm
by Frosty
Maybe STA managed make it economically viable. P already operates the 301,394 all night plus a few early morning/late night routes. Expect Bustech VSTs galore on the N11 if P operates it . It would make sense for STA for depot wise for the N10 & N11 to be operated by T considering the route runs past Tempe Depot & stops right in front of it.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:31 pm
by Stu
STA have made savings by making changes/reductions to the Eastern Region Night Owl services.

Previous Eastern Region Night Owl services. (Thur, Fri & Sat)
- Nov to *April. (*only 380 operates until March & April)
- 8 x trips each way from midnight to the early hours of the morning.
373-IN Coogee to Darlinghurst (Oxford & Liverpool St's)
373-OUT Museum Stn (Liverpool St) to Coogee.
380-IN Nth Bondi to Darlinghurst (Oxford & Liverpool St's)
380-OUT Museum Stn (Liverpool St) to Nth Bondi.
394-IN Maroubra Jct to Darlinghurst (Oxford & Liverpool St's)
394-OUT Museum Stn (Liverpool St) to Maroubra Jct.

Current: Eastern Region Summer Night Owl services.(Fri & Sat)
- Dec to Feb.
- 3 x trips each way from midnight until approx 02:00 - 03:00.
- routes 301, 333, 373 & 394.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:35 pm
by Fleet Lists
Frosty wrote:Maybe STA managed make it economically viable. P already operates the 301,394 all night plus a few early morning/late night routes. Expect Bustech VSTs galore on the N11 if P operates it . It would make sense for STA for depot wise for the N10 & N11 to be operated by T considering the route runs past Tempe Depot & stops right in front of it.

Except that T wont be part of STA for much longer.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:40 pm
by swtt
Frosty wrote:Maybe STA managed make it economically viable. P already operates the 301,394 all night plus a few early morning/late night routes. Expect Bustech VSTs galore on the N11 if P operates it . It would make sense for STA for depot wise for the N10 & N11 to be operated by T considering the route runs past Tempe Depot & stops right in front of it.


All of these NightRide services head to the city empty at the moment, so I'm suspecting it would be the same irrespective of whether T or P operates it - or maybe operate an inbound revenue service to say, Martin Place and then empty to Town Hall.

That would definitely be a cost saving that almost none of the other operators could match - as Hillsbus and Forest are the only other operators into town and the next closest would be Hillsbus as they could operate a revenue M61/607X into town and then come back out as a NightRide to say, Hornsby if they won the tender.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:06 pm
by Glen
swtt wrote:All of these NightRide services head to the city empty at the moment, so I'm suspecting it would be the same irrespective of whether T or P operates it - or maybe operate an inbound revenue service to say, Martin Place and then empty to Town Hall.

Some NightRide shifts start their first trips from the OUTER end of the routes.

swtt wrote:That would definitely be a cost saving that almost none of the other operators could match - as Hillsbus and Forest are the only other operators into town and the next closest would be Hillsbus as they could operate a revenue M61/607X into town and then come back out as a NightRide to say, Hornsby if they won the tender.

I'm fairly sure Hillsbus services are not out-of-balance in that direction, i.e. anything that goes into town on an M2 service late at night already returns to the Hills in-service.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:14 pm
by Frosty
Though thinking of it STA could run it efficiently there are few 303 inbound trips that start fairly early from Sans Souci so there wouldn’t be need for buses to come from the depot to start these early trips.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:19 pm
by Stu
The route 300 is scheduled to operate in the 2nd 1/2 of the shift whilst the first 1/2 of the shift consists of regular route work, this is possible due to the route 300 being short in length and operating in a single direction only.

There could be the possibility of mixing regular routes with the Night Ride routes at either end of the shift - Frosty has made an example of this by using route 303. Dead running will be preferable if a particular depot is close to a particular terminus. Examples are R being close to Town Hall and Y being close to Macquarie Park, in these cases it may be possible to have last bus IN = last bus OUT to reduce long distance dead running.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 pm
by busbum
Could possibly be Artics. More capacity.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:36 pm
by Geoff
Fleet Lists wrote:N10 and N11 from City to Cronulla and Sutherland currently Punchbowl I think.
N90 City to Hornsby via Chatswood - Transdev. Will they retain N80 to Hornsby via Strathfield?
N91 - What is this new route?

With this new route, does this mean the foreshadowed review of Nightride services is to take place in March?


CDC have picked up N50, N80 and the new one - N81. This operates from Parramatta via Victoria Road, Rydalmere, Silverwater Rd, thru Newington, Olympic Park Station, Strathfield Station then normnal stops to Park Street.

They have retained their other Nightride services.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:07 pm
by Jurassic_Joke
So the operation of N90/N80 have been split into two - and CDC got N80??? Lucky, im envious. That means, if logic serves, N80 will be run with a mix of Volgren Optimus and Volgren C2R88L. Pretty good if you ask me. Meanwhile me on N90, going from Transdev to State Transit? I really really hope it'll be Ryde doing the N90 then so it eliminates the chance of any STA Bustechs. I'm serious about that.

Any sources for all this information?

Otherwise while on the discussion, now that State Transit is running the N90, they should have a look at putting in bendies to use on the busier nights because in recent years ive seen patronage on the N90 absolutely surge and sometimes they have to resort to using two standard buses on certain trips to carry everyone. I think that Transdev didnt want to use Bustech CDi double deck because its their precious baby and they didnt want drunk kids ruining it and thats understandable (because otherwise I see no reason why they can't run on N90), but hopefully it'll be reasonable to see bendies used on N90.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:07 am
by busbum
Maybe that is why STA got the tender. Artics

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:32 am
by J_Busworth
busbum wrote:Maybe that is why STA got the tender. Artics

I would really like to see arctics on the Nightride buses, but I have a bad feeling that it will be VST/VSTM territory. I would have thought that in most cases the STA would have been more cost effective as unlike the privates they don't have to make a profit for their shareholders, just make enough to cover costs.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:33 pm
by Jurassic_Joke
J_Busworth wrote:
busbum wrote:Maybe that is why STA got the tender. Artics

I would really like to see arctics on the Nightride buses, but I have a bad feeling that it will be VST/VSTM territory. I would have thought that in most cases the STA would have been more cost effective as unlike the privates they don't have to make a profit for their shareholders, just make enough to cover costs.



Let’s admit, Route 151 Mona Vale-QVB is basically a NightRide, except it doesn’t have an N prefix and that’s run completely with CB60 artics (except one odd trip). There would be more than enough Volvo B7RLE Bustech VST from Brookvale if they wanted to :wink: oops sorry let’s not give them any ideas

And for good reason, 151 has a healthy amount of patronage overnight generally speaking. Given how long the route is (+ factoring in driving an artic + any overnight penalty rates), obviously, costs of exploitation are high but because there’s a good amount of people using it then it’s perhaps justified.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:50 pm
by Stu
When STA (UTA) used to operate some Night Ride services when Night Ride first commenced back in the 1990's, K-Depot used to use 14.5m buses on the N30 & N40. There were a handful of gas Scania buses that were scheduled as being dedicated to night ride services during the evenings, some of these buses still have a plaque on the bulk head that has a contact list such as emergency services, taxis, depots and radio room.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:12 am
by Ray
Would have thought N90 had M all over it, but someone has reported elsewhere that Y has these.

Maybe M will do the N91, with W assisting. More work for the excellent Bustech midis, or at least the ones not already busy assisting with crush loads on the late night 380s.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:47 pm
by Michael Bamborough
Ray wrote:Would have thought N90 had M all over it, but someone has reported elsewhere that Y has these.

Maybe M will do the N91, with W assisting. More work for the excellent Bustech midis, or at least the ones not already busy assisting with crush loads on the late night 380s.


Ugh VSTM's Are not good buses for Route 380. But not to worry i've sent them a Complaint to tell them to stop using VSTM's on 380 and perhaps instead use bendy buses on All 380 night services instead.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:30 pm
by iamthouth
The Night Ride tender requested Standard buses only, ie 12.5s.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:00 pm
by Ben_Daui
Stu wrote:When STA (UTA) used to operate some Night Ride services when Night Ride first commenced back in the 1990's, K-Depot used to use 14.5m buses on the N30 & N40. There were a handful of gas Scania buses that were scheduled as being dedicated to night ride services during the evenings, some of these buses still have a plaque on the bulk head that has a contact list such as emergency services, taxis, depots and radio room.

I have seen the Nightride fare lists on the desto board cover of the K 14.5’s when they were still a new bus back in the late 90’s.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 pm
by Jurassic_Joke
Michael Bamborough wrote:
Ray wrote:Would have thought N90 had M all over it, but someone has reported elsewhere that Y has these.

Maybe M will do the N91, with W assisting. More work for the excellent Bustech midis, or at least the ones not already busy assisting with crush loads on the late night 380s.


Ugh VSTM's Are not good buses for Route 380. But not to worry i've sent them a Complaint to tell them to stop using VSTM's on 380 and perhaps instead use bendy buses on All 380 night services instead.



It's no good, we've all sent complaints about VSTMs on 380, it just goes in one ear out the other for them. It just makes absolutely no sense. Theres nothing worse than standing between 5 people, on a slanted floor, thats really jerky.

But I think they like it, as they enjoy the savings in costs and pass it onto their rich mates.

Re: Nightride changes from March 2018

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:34 am
by gilberations
I’ve frequently complained about the capacity issues on the N70 and N71, suggesting they should use 14.5m or deckers, and the reaponse has been that the contract only allows for a standard 12.5m bus