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Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:57 am

burrumbus wrote:Owned by Nowra Coaches Pty.Ltd.All buses used on Rural and Regional contracts are owned by the operators.
Hope this helps,Tony.

Sort of knew that already. What caused the momentary double-take was a private operator, especially in a regional area, buying a brand new fleet of citybus-standard artics. That must be just about unprecedented, even among urban operations. I think typically this very expensive type of bus is purchased by the agencies on behalf of operators nowadays. To cap it off, the very part-time use to which they'll be put is rather like buying a fleet of Rolls Royces for a part-time cab service. Meanwhile, the actual town bus services here are ... well, poor! And the Gong Shuttle could do with something more.

This is no ordinary family of owners though:

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/stor ... o-holiday/

Edit:
This may also have been relevant to the decision to replace the buses:

http://www.otsi.nsw.gov.au/bus/131126_N ... _FINAL.pdf
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:41 am

First day in service for Nowra Coaches 8572 MO and presumably its sisters (mods please note that this contradicts the registration information shown in the fleetlists). A hurried photo again, sorry:

8572MO.jpg


The driver had a smile from ear to ear - he said that 20 years without air conditioning was enough for him! Three have been delivered, two still to come. I only had a glimpse inside, cloth seats with pattern, very nice. I hope the kids leave them alone. Extremely quiet too which is a bit of an upset in terms of advance notice of getting the kids out to catch the bus. The old artics you could hear screaming their nuts off a km away. This one snuck up on us completely silent, which is why I was ill-prepared for photos.

With such a shortage of artics in the cities, these are surreal in their operating environment. With three doors, I can't help wondering if the owners also have some other agenda for them, like shuttles for cruise ships at Port Kembla and other crowdy situations in Wollongong. I gather these artics cost about $750,000 each (?) and their cost-effectiveness for limited school service must be questionable.

I note that in Volgren's latest release they say they have a big upsurge in orders for artics.

As a side-note on the subject of "bus stop safety", note the typical rural school bus "stop" - a little strip of grass between the road and the drainage ditch!
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Frosty » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:57 am

Maybe the decision to go 3 doors was just to give more operational flexibility it’s easier to remove doors than add in doors. They would of had a careful thought process in choosing new bendies considering the additional maintenance cost of 2 Ac units & a turntable. Maybe 14.5m & Double Deck bus wasn’t suitable & 12.5m bus didn’t provide enough capacity for school runs.

What is the licensed capacity of these bendies I ask ?
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:56 am

Frosty wrote:Maybe the decision to go 3 doors was just to give more operational flexibility it’s easier to remove doors than add in doors. They would of had a careful thought process in choosing new bendies considering the additional maintenance cost of 2 Ac units & a turntable. Maybe 14.5m & Double Deck bus wasn’t suitable & 12.5m bus didn’t provide enough capacity for school runs.

What is the licensed capacity of these bendies I ask ?

No doubt before long I will get close enough or get a photo clear enough to read the capacity, but fleetlists says 58 seats for a start. I've yet to get far enough into a bus to see if they have the wheelchair space, but they must have sacrificed a bit of standee space to get that number of seats in. On the services these artics run, all seats fill up plus a large number of standees, that's why they use artics, not rigid buses. The dwell times through the front door only are, er, "substantial"!
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby sunnyyan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:59 pm

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act ... 7e6b97fe5f

Red metrobus hits pedestrian at Bankstown Interchange
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:04 pm

Rover Motors (Coaches) Were doing the 110 Loop service in Newcastle this morning. They also had Bustech XDi - Cummins ISL operating it but I didn't get a photo of that one. But got a photo of their Iveco CB80 and Denning Phoenix Bus :D

Image

Image
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:55 pm

So this confirms that route 110 is not just operated by Newcastle Transport??
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby BanksfielderIdiot823 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:58 pm

sunnyyan wrote:http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/woman-critical-after-being-hit-by-bus-at-in-bankstown/news-story/40c6abff759e30a1a8e3e17e6b97fe5f

Red metrobus hits pedestrian at Bankstown Interchange


Yep, It's #5352 (Volgren CR228L, Volvo B7RLE), and the pedestrian has since been reported dead.

When I first heard of it, I thought it was a jaywalker. I grew up in Bankstown and have since done a lot of busfanning/bus photography outside the station and let me tell you, there are always a whole bunch of damn idiots jaywalking those South Terrace lights, even to the dismay of bus drivers coming off the Bus Lane over the train line from North Terrace. Based on seeing these pedestrians, the casualty today was no surprise to me at all. This happens from passengers of all ages, the female in this case being 81.

Again, I wasn't there, so I don't know what phase the lights were at or anything.

That being said, spare a thought for the bus driver involved and hope he recovers.

As for everyone else in Bankstown, for damn sake, wait for the little green man, people!!!!!!

UPDATE: *sigh* just watched Seven News and they're saying that witnesses were mentioning that the pedestrian was moving slowly and became stranded when the light turned red.

Okay, I know it's an elderly lady, but since way too many people jaywalk these lights here and risk their lives, I'm not trusting anything.

Also, for those who are about to pin this on the driver, they should try driving a bus around that curve coming into South Terrace and see for themselves how hard it is to come around and try to avoid someone who they see on the road at the last second without slamming the brakes and potentially causing further injury.
Last edited by BanksfielderIdiot823 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:21 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:So this confirms that route 110 is not just operated by Newcastle Transport??


I guess so?
I don't know what today's reasoning for Rover running it was but definitely a nice change from the constant Bustechs and Newcastle Transport operating it (A man can only have so many photos of the same VST's)

Looking at trip planner, it seems the rest of the 110 buses this afternoon are being serviced by Newcastle Transport, same story for tomorrow as well unless they don't have notice that Rover is operating it. I should've asked the Driver of one of the Rover buses I was on why they were operating today and if they know again when they'll be doing it. Ah well I'm in Newcastle every week and will likely be heading up again this Thursday so I'll update again if I see Rover or any other operator operating the 110.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:47 am

Frosty wrote:
What is the licensed capacity of these bendies I ask ?

It says on the back "carrying capacity 57" - one number less than the seating figure on fleetlists here but in line with Volgren's maximum seating figure for artics. It's a bit odd that just this figure is given, as on school runs here they're often dense with standees as well as all seats full. As you know, there is room for at least a good 50 adult standees on the gangway - given three doors (see my post on the back door thread).

My mate the driver let me have a quick look inside and it's the typical Volgren seating complement and arrangement with two wheelchair spaces after the front axle, one each side. As far as I could see, it didn't have flip-up seats in the wheelchair spaces but maybe I need another look as that doesn't tally with the seating total.

I must be the only person here calling them artics, which is what they're called all around the world except UK and the British "bendy" disease seems to entrenched here too! When I speak to bus staff they look puzzled when I say artic and I have to translate into their language. :lol:
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:41 pm

tonyp wrote:It says on the back "carrying capacity 57" - one number less than the seating figure on fleetlists here but in line with Volgren's maximum seating figure for artics. It's a bit odd that just this figure is given, as on school runs here they're often dense with standees as well as all seats full. As you know, there is room for at least a good 50 adult standees on the gangway - given three doors (see my post on the back door thread).

My mate the driver let me have a quick look inside and it's the typical Volgren seating complement and arrangement with two wheelchair spaces after the front axle, one each side. As far as I could see, it didn't have flip-up seats in the wheelchair spaces but maybe I need another look as that doesn't tally with the seating total.

I must be the only person here calling them artics, which is what they're called all around the world except UK and the British "bendy" disease seems to entrenched here too! When I speak to bus staff they look puzzled when I say artic and I have to translate into their language. :lol:
Do the operators actually count how many seats that are on a bus before putting a license to carry sticker on the back of that bus or is the number on the license to carry sticker only a estimation made by the operator
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:12 pm

^^
Somebody else will need to answer that question.

I boarded one of the artics to talk to the driver this afternoon and there was load of 80+ on board with heaps of standing space for more. So much for the "capacity" figure on the back of the bus. It's just seats. I confirmed that there are 6 flip ups in the wheelchair bays, so that confirms the 57 seat figure. The driver was opening the other two doors as well to let kids off. What magnificent buses artics are. There should be heaps more of them.

The quietness of the bus is really impressive. Was somebody bad mouthing Scanias? Nothing wrong with them that I can see.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:30 pm

Port Stephens Coaches was also operating the 110 Newcastle Loop today. Only one bus from them on the 110 while the other two were operated by Rover

Rover had the same buses from Monday's pictures I took above while PSC had m/o 7444.

Trip planner and Trip view still show 110 as being operated by Newcastle Transport.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:01 pm

ScaniaGrenda wrote:
Fleet Lists wrote:So this confirms that route 110 is not just operated by Newcastle Transport??


I guess so?
I don't know what today's reasoning for Rover running it was but definitely a nice change from the constant Bustechs and Newcastle Transport operating it (A man can only have so many photos of the same VST's)

Looking at trip planner, it seems the rest of the 110 buses this afternoon are being serviced by Newcastle Transport, same story for tomorrow as well unless they don't have notice that Rover is operating it. I should've asked the Driver of one of the Rover buses I was on why they were operating today and if they know again when they'll be doing it. Ah well I'm in Newcastle every week and will likely be heading up again this Thursday so I'll update again if I see Rover or any other operator operating the 110.

It is possible that Rover are sub-contracting to KD to provide wet/dry hire buses. Does KD have availability issues with their own fleet?
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby burrumbus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:29 pm

That would seem to be the case Boronia,with the regular use of Rover and now Port Stephens.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:04 pm

tonyp wrote:
Frosty wrote:
What is the licensed capacity of these bendies I ask ?

It says on the back "carrying capacity 57" - one number less than the seating figure on fleetlists here but in line with Volgren's maximum seating figure for artics. It's a bit odd that just this figure is given, as on school runs here they're often dense with standees as well as all seats full. As you know, there is room for at least a good 50 adult standees on the gangway - given three doors (see my post on the back door thread).


The wording on the back is usually "Licenced to SEAT 57 (plus a number for permitted standees)".

It used to be common on buses used primarily for school work to have 3+2 seating at the rear to boost up these numbers. I've had them on train replacements in the past.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:01 am

boronia wrote:The wording on the back is usually "Licenced to SEAT 57 (plus a number for permitted standees)".

It used to be common on buses used primarily for school work to have 3+2 seating at the rear to boost up these numbers. I've had them on train replacements in the past.

The text I have quoted has been applied to the rear centre of the bus by the manufacturer, just above the number plate. There is no sign yet of the more detailed information on the nearside back corner. Is that something the RMS requires or is it up to the operator?

The seating is exactly as for the Transperth Volgren artics - all 2+2, 6 flip-ups and the bench for 5 across the back, total 57 seats.

The bloke at the depot told me they can carry three (littlies presumably) across a seat but the seats are designed for two. Having three on a seat sounds like a perfect recipe for fights breaking out to me!
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby burrumbus » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:19 am

tonyp wrote:
boronia wrote:The wording on the back is usually "Licenced to SEAT 57 (plus a number for permitted standees)".

It used to be common on buses used primarily for school work to have 3+2 seating at the rear to boost up these numbers. I've had them on train replacements in the past.

The text I have quoted has been applied to the rear centre of the bus by the manufacturer, just above the number plate. There is no sign yet of the more detailed information on the nearside back corner. Is that something the RMS requires or is it up to the operator?

The seating is exactly as for the Transperth Volgren artics - all 2+2, 6 flip-ups and the bench for 5 across the back, total 57 seats.

The bloke at the depot told me they can carry three (littlies presumably) across a seat but the seats are designed for two. Having three on a seat sounds like a perfect recipe for fights breaking out to me!

Morning Tony.
RMS requires the licenced seating capacity and stand capacity to be displayed on the rear of the bus,normally left hand side.Thats one of the auditable items on an operators safety management system.3 primary school children across a double seat is legal.A lot of new school buses in NSW now specify 3 seat belted seats across a double seat as standard practice.Not only for contract school runs,but also maximum loading capacity for primary school charters.Are the artics seat belt equipped ?? 3 plus 2 seating is still practised-more so on charter buses these days.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby 1whoknows » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:42 am

Several bodybuilders, including Volgren, include the drivers seat in the seating capacity on the compliance plate - e.g. a 57 seat school bus will have 58 on the plate.

As Burrumbus says many 57 seaters can also be around 70 under 3+2 rules.

The other complicating variable these days is the front seats on many low floors - are they 1, 1.5 or 2? - you can argue it any way you like but few of them would take two normal size adults.

Always best to actually count the seats when genning a bus if that is possible.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:03 am

burrumbus wrote:Morning Tony.
RMS requires the licenced seating capacity and stand capacity to be displayed on the rear of the bus,normally left hand side.Thats one of the auditable items on an operators safety management system.3 primary school children across a double seat is legal.A lot of new school buses in NSW now specify 3 seat belted seats across a double seat as standard practice.Not only for contract school runs,but also maximum loading capacity for primary school charters.Are the artics seat belt equipped ?? 3 plus 2 seating is still practised-more so on charter buses these days.

Probably if I look again in a few days I'll see the full information up on the back of the bus. They've put them into service within days of delivery so they probably haven't got around to doing everything yet. All five are in service, taking over most of Nowra Coaches school services, even the 60 km return run to Bay and Basin, so they're in at the deep end. They don't have seat belts as I think they're relying on the large standing capacity for the town runs and everybody is sitting on the distance runs.

1whoknows wrote:Several bodybuilders, including Volgren, include the drivers seat in the seating capacity on the compliance plate - e.g. a 57 seat school bus will have 58 on the plate.

As Burrumbus says many 57 seaters can also be around 70 under 3+2 rules.

The other complicating variable these days is the front seats on many low floors - are they 1, 1.5 or 2? - you can argue it any way you like but few of them would take two normal size adults.

Always best to actually count the seats when genning a bus if that is possible.

That probably explains why the figure in Fleetlists here is 58 rather than 57 - it includes the driver's seat.

I have the drawings for the Transperth Volgren (Volvo) artics in front of me and the layout is identical. Those "1.5" seats at the front are counted as one seat each for the tally, although they will obviously hold a couple of kids or an adult and child.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:19 pm

Nowra Coaches 8342 MO:

8342c.jpg
8342c.jpg (141.31 KiB) Viewed 2292 times


8342a.jpg
8342a.jpg (135 KiB) Viewed 2292 times


Still no sign of a detailed capacity sticker on the back.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby burrumbus » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:13 pm

You might have to snag one at the end of a school run and count the seats,Tony.!!!
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby iamthouth » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:28 pm

and still only front door use I take it?....
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:05 pm

iamthouth wrote:and still only front door use I take it?....

It seems to depend on the driver and location. I've seen three doors used when they reach the final school and have to empty a large number out of the bus, otherwise one door is used. Of course they have to check the passes on boarding. The bus in the photos above was near the end of the home run. Burrumbus don't worry, I'm doing my own little lines of enquiry! :wink:

And I've been chatting with bus drivers since about the age of 5 so I have a polished spiel well-rehearsed. :lol:
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby LB608 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:20 pm

Telfords/Dunn Group Australia,with the takeover of Pegasus,does that mean Telfords (DGA) buses will be seen all over Australia
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