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NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby lunchbox » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:00 pm

[quote="tonyp"]Good call lunchbox. I went one up and wrote to the Vice Chancellor. Best I think to target the clients rather than the advertising companies who couldn't give two hoots.[/quote]

A colleage complained to the Minister for Transport about the new all-over-advertising policy on trains. Here's the reply he got -

Thank you for your correspondence to the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure about advertising film on train windows.

I have been asked to respond to you. I note your concerns and appreciate the reasons which prompted you to make contact. While I appreciate your feedback, advertising on public transport windows delivers revenue which is reinvested back into public transport to improve customer service and reduce the financial burden to NSW taxpayers.

As you may be aware, the NSW Government heavily subsidises public transport. I am advised Sydney Trains uses “One Way Vision films” to allow customers to see out of the train window through the advertising.

Sydney Trains reported no specific issues for customers related to wayfinding at night or due to poor weather, as the film used is specifically designed for those environments.

“All Over Advertising” also reduces vandalism and graffiti on trains. In the event that vandals deface the advertising sticker, it is much easier to remove than to repaint the interior of the train or replace the glass and anti-graffiti film. As such, I am advised that it is SydneyTrains’ intention to continue to use this form of advertising in the future.

Thank you for taking the time to write.

Yours sincerely
11/7/2018

Terry McSweeney
Principal Manager, Ministerial & Government Services
Customer Relations & GovernmentServices
Transport for NSW
----------------------------
The errors in this response are almost too numerous to mention.
Some of us are used to getting bulldust answers from ministers. It is unacceptable to get it from public servants like the “Principal Manager", who must know the facts but chooses to deny them.
The next question is what to do about the response. To ignore it might be seen as irresponsible as the response itself.

We can complain with a second letter to the minister, a tactic which has produced results on previous occasions, or we could use social media, letters to the papers, or vote!
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Aurora » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Looks right to me, except that last paragraph randomly going from talking about AOA to internal advertising.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:19 pm

Tell them that there is no objection to overall external advertising as it has been traditonally done - covering solid panelling but not windows - and therefore there should be no negative effect on advertising revenue. That's after telling them that what they say about vision through covered windows is completely incorrect.

Keep up the positive message that there's actually no objection to advertising, nor to the notion of raising revenue from it. It's the covering of windows that's being objected to. They're just using old-fashioned smear tactics - you don't like advertising on windows therefore you don't like advertising. Call them out on it.

Same message for trams and buses. The recent decision not to cover windows of Melbourne trams might also be mentioned.

A considerate public transport agency still earning advertising revenue:

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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby lunchbox » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:04 am

^^^^^^^^^^^^Thanks Tonyp. I understand the points you raise were all made in the original letter to the minister, and that a second letter has been sent, challenging the views of the "Principal Manager". For readers who may wish to get involved, the minister's phone number is 8574 5807.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby lunchbox » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:53 pm

A colleague has received the following response from the Minister for Transport, via the Member for Oatley, possibly the greatest waste of taxpayer's maney to sit in Parliament House -

Thank you for your further correspondence to the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure about advertising film on train windows.

The Minister asked me to respond on his behalf. I note your concerns and appreciate the reasons which prompted you to make contact again.
I am advised Transport for NSW determines policy for exterior advertising on train windows. Transport for NSW regularly reviews advertising placement to
ensure a percentage of the fleet remains advertisement free for the amenity of customers.

As per previous correspondence, it is Sydney Trains’ intention to continue to use this form of advertising in the future.

Thank you for taking the time to write.
Yours sincerely
27/8/2018
Mark Coure MP
Parliamentary Secretary for Transport and Infrastructure.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:07 pm

lunchbox wrote:A colleague has received the following response from the Minister for Transport, via the Member for Oatley, possibly the greatest waste of taxpayer's maney to sit in Parliament House -

Thank you for your further correspondence to the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure about advertising film on train windows.

The Minister asked me to respond on his behalf. I note your concerns and appreciate the reasons which prompted you to make contact again.
I am advised Transport for NSW determines policy for exterior advertising on train windows. Transport for NSW regularly reviews advertising placement to
ensure a percentage of the fleet remains advertisement free for the amenity of customers.

As per previous correspondence, it is Sydney Trains’ intention to continue to use this form of advertising in the future.

Thank you for taking the time to write.
Yours sincerely
27/8/2018
Mark Coure MP
Parliamentary Secretary for Transport and Infrastructure.

Consulting my Poor Man's Guide to Assailing Byzantine Monoliths (like TfNSW), I've thought of another flanking strategy, lunchbox, since they're obviously being stubbornly resistant to even considering compromise. Perhaps APT might consider a push to get TfNSW to fit any train, tram or bus with a "next stop" GPS-based PID, prior to applying overall wrap to the vehicle. Like make this a rule: no wrap without GPS-based PID in the vehicle. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, I wonder what TfNSW would think of the idea? Let me guess?

I rode a Blue Emu shuttle bus at Sydney Airport last night and as usual at night you can't see a thing out the wrapped windows and had to trundle the suitcase down the front to ask the driver to let me know when the stop was coming up. He agreed that it was crazy putting wrap on the windows and couldn't understand why they did it. In this case it's not even advertising, it's just to "brand" the service, like e.g. the Gong Shuttle, 333 and other examples, so it's more than just a question of advertising revenue. These operators (or the chair-polishers in state transport HQ) just don't get it and it's obvious that none of them or their decision-making staff actually use public transport rather than the salary-package car.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby lunchbox » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:51 pm

ADS ON BUS AND TRAIN WINDOWS........
On Wed. Aug 29 2018, (above) on this thread, I reported on the Berejiklian government's refusal to vary its policy on all-over-advertising (AOA) on public transit vehicles. Here's an update, and a request.......

ADVERTISING ON BUS & TRAIN WINDOWS

Passengers have complained about the contemptuous nature of advertising film on Sydney's bus windows for years. No government or Minister for Transport has been willing to do anything about it. As tonyp (of this forum) and others have pointed out, civilised juristictions are able to generate revenue from all-over-advertising (AOA) on their transit vehicles WITHOUT covering the windows. Under the current minister, the Hon. Andrew Constance, AOA has now been extended to train windows. He has refused to revise the policy, his Parliamentary Secretary advising that Transport for NSW determines the policy. The PS thus implies that the policy is out of the hands of the minister. Why he would assert that is anybody's guess.

It seems the current minister may have underestimated the extent of public feeling about ad. film on windows. The recent controversy about using the Sydney Opera House roof for a horse race promotion widened into a public debate about advertising generally on public spaces. In the Sydney Morning Herald of 9 October 2018, associate professor of urban geography at Sydney University, Kurt Iveson, bemoaned the fact that we have slowly let advertising creep further and further into our public spaces (“Infiltration of ads into public spaces must stop”). He said it was imperative we figure out how to recapture our public realm for the public good.

The following day, Ms. Charmaine Moldrich had a further op-ed piece in the Herald, joining the 230 000 people who had signed a petition to stop the advertising of a horse race on the Opera House sails. Ms. Moldrich is no less a person than the CEO of the Outdoor Media Association!

A letter to the editor of the Herald, published on 15 October, complained specifically about advertising film on bus and train windows. That letter generated three letters of support on the following day and another one on 17 October. It seems reasonable to assume there may have been more letters which remained unpublished.

Let's capitalise on this public outrage. Ring Minister Constance's office on 8574 5807, or Premier Berejiklian's office on 8574 5000, and ask that advertising film be removed from the windows of Sydney's public transit vehicles. Alternatively, you will find a pro-forma for a letter to either of them on the “NSW Parliament” website. If you would prefer to deal with the Labor Party, call their shadow minister for transport, Ms. Jodi McKay, on 9747 1711.

Thanks.
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Last edited by lunchbox on Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby rogf24 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:18 pm

Here's how they do it in Toronto. Part of the window is covered but they still leave a small gap. It reduces the view a bit but it's not bad.
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