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Bondi Beach bus patronage

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby burrumbus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:57 pm

tonyp wrote:
burrumbus wrote:Tony,I suspect the reason the lady driver didn't load the bus to capacity at Hall Avenue was to have some capacity for the last Campbell Parade stop,then Bondi Road.There is turnover from Bondi Beach down Bondi Beach.From the evidence my estimate of 3 out of 10 pax is pretty close to the mark.
The service there simply fails badly,But I saw several examples throughout the STA area.Coogee and Randwick having the same issues.
As In transit said the problems can be sorted out relatively easily.But,like you STA ,hamstrung by old operating practices and the union are simply incapable of making those changes.As I've said before the lack of capacity and productivity of bus and drivers is one of the biggest reasons(although not stated publicly)why STA will lose region 6.
Sydney desparately needs something better from the bus industry.
By the way most region 6 buses noted were very simply filthy outside.Seems they have given up trying to present the buses at least a bit.

It's a dilemma. My first reaction to these issues is that STA has to go, but the question that follows through is "to be replaced by what"? There's still the same poor agency and the agency is the key factor in how it all works, as WA demonstrates. One might hope at least that some of the foreign contractor-operators, drawing on their European experience, might see the issues more clearly and pressure TfNSW to help them act on them with more effective solutions. It's a case of living in hope. The bigger picture is that the local bus industry is simply failing to deliver through its lack of knowledge and sophistication.

CSELR should be able to be readily extended to Coogee Beach and Maroubra Beach, subject to the realities at TfNSW. That would solve those issues at least. My preferred practical solution for Bondi Beach is to build the rail as the direct express and supplement it with buses to fill in the details along the coorridor.

I'd agree with that Tony.TFNSW really needs to be kicked up the backside in a big way.That unfortunately can only come from the political angle.You'd need a transport minister,at least with knowledge of how to get things right.I'd also suggest that the 2 multi nationals operating route service contracts have not set the world on fire with change and innovative services,driver quality and fleet presentation.The quality and organization of services is just not there,by and large and without large increases in that you won't attract the massive numbers of car drivers.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby aussieboy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:37 pm

Linto63 wrote:Probably little extra revenue to be made, most reaching the $2.60 cap on their way in, but that's not really the point.


This cap should be limited to routes with no overcrowding issues (i.e. trains). On buses/ferries the revenue is clearly needed to pay for additional services. It's essentially communism - make everything free and then no-one can enjoy it because the resource becomes so scarce.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby aussieboy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:45 pm

burrumbus wrote:Thats my opinion of what needs to happen to make this incredibly important corridor function.At the moment it really is a mess as several members have commented.


Proper queuing systems at the beach as I suggested previously would also adequately fix the problem.

While headways/dwell times would still be problematic from an operational perspective, at least customers would be assured of catching a bus within ~10mins of joining the queue. Think of it like a ski lift - fixed capacity but queueing ensures that everyone gets on eventually, and spreads demand over a longer time period.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby Frosty » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:01 pm

aussieboy wrote:
Linto63 wrote:Probably little extra revenue to be made, most reaching the $2.60 cap on their way in, but that's not really the point.


This cap should be limited to routes with no overcrowding issues (i.e. trains). On buses/ferries the revenue is clearly needed to pay for additional services. It's essentially communism - make everything free and then no-one can enjoy it because the resource becomes so scarce.


In a way you could implement in surge pricing like Uber does to manage demand. Though in Bondi Beach scenario most people wouldn't be too pleased particularly if you want to get home when a storm is coming for example.

Queuing system's have their place they do implement at the City2Surf like you know your going to get on a bus after 30mins to 1 hour. If you want to be a bit of capitalist you could have a fast track queue/priority boarding for a fee. There is a queuing system already at Bondi Jn Interchange it's ineffective as most people tend to queue for the 333 but at least makes sure people don't block the entrance into the station ticket hall.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby Swift » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:19 pm

They need to extend selected all door boarding from weekday evening peak in Sydney's CBD to Bondi Beach on weekend afternoons.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby boronia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:34 pm

Frosty wrote:
In a way you could implement in surge pricing like Uber does to manage demand. Though in Bondi Beach scenario most people wouldn't be too pleased particularly if you want to get home when a storm is coming for example.

Queuing system's have their place they do implement at the City2Surf like you know your going to get on a bus after 30mins to 1 hour. If you want to be a bit of capitalist you could have a fast track queue/priority boarding for a fee. There is a queuing system already at Bondi Jn Interchange it's ineffective as most people tend to queue for the 333 but at least makes sure people don't block the entrance into the station ticket hall.


Years ago they had lines painted on the footpath at bus stops. People queued up in an orderly fashion and boarded in sequence.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby Swift » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:36 pm

Gee, letting a good initiative fall by the wayside. How un-NSW like!!
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby Frosty » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:44 pm

Painted lines on the footpath at bus stops wouldn't work now days particular with the high numbers of tourists from Mainland China where queuing is non-existent it would need physical barriers/fencing.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:24 pm

I wouldn't bother creating queuing, just let people mob the bus. It builds up the pressure for all-door boarding.

The funniest one is the UOW stop for the Gong Shuttle. Students have obviously been browbeaten by somebody in authority to form queues, which they do, quite long ones snaking around the stop. The rest of us wait in the shelter, sitting or standing. When the bus arrives, the non-queuers storm the bus and get on first, very quickly, leaving the students to file in slowly while the dwell extends yawningly towards infinity. The last ones inevitably get left behind as the now-late bus pulls away. Yeah, the queue system works really well.

Students are a docile lot nowadays. In my day they wouldn't accept this nonsense.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby aussieboy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:17 pm

tonyp wrote:The rest of us wait in the shelter, sitting or standing. When the bus arrives, the non-queuers storm the bus and get on first, very quickly, leaving the students to file in slowly while the dwell extends yawningly towards infinity.


I don't call that funny, I call it being a selfish d***.

Bus queues work in many places, e.g. 389 at BJI.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby boronia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Bus queues work wonderfully while people are waiting. But when the bus pulls up, it's everyone for themselves.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby burrumbus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:57 pm

I noted in Chatswood on Friday arvo that the Forest pax still queue,like they allways have.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby Frosty » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:13 pm

Meanwhile at Green Square & Redfern queues are foreign concept probably due to multiple destinations served from a single stop.

Queues can work at BJI for Bondi Beach services but doesn’t due to different stopping patterns & two seperate stands are used. Since someone could be waiting at Stand A there’s a 381 Bondi Beach/Nth Bondi service,380 to Nth Bondi or Watsons Bay/Dover Heights & X81 to Bondi Beach. Though people sneakily to avoiding queueing at BJ just enter from outside of the building to jump straight to the front.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby burrumbus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:26 pm

Another argument to operate just one route on the Bondi Beach corridor,Frosty.
I can't comment on Green Square and Redfern as I haven't had a look there.Coogee Beach suffers from that with multiple destinations from the same time.
The 370 loadings from Coogee were very impressive with standing loads out of Coogee nearly every trip.It would appear to be a candidate for an increase in frequency from 20 minutes.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby Swift » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:32 am

gld59 wrote:
Frosty wrote:I have feeling W prefers VSTM probably more reliable, better fuel consumption & drivers prefer it.

They're the only diesel rigids at W, so you may be right about preferences. (Must have been fun driving and refilling the gassies yesterday! :roll: )

gld

What I find ridiculous is that Lobotomy depot (P) now has a big fleet of regular size diesels as well as shitty CNGs. Why can't Waverley have some VSTs and give P some of their CNGs? P is a less stressful environment for gassies too.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:50 am

aussieboy wrote:
I don't call that funny, I call it being a selfish d***.

Bus queues work in many places, e.g. 389 at BJI.

I'd call it making sure you get on the bus, given that it's typically not guaranteed when the next one will come - which is what motivates most people. I think the students should be doing the same too. It all works out and the loading is faster which means the dwell is shorter. Queues are stupid for public transport. It's the operator's responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is designed to load quickly and effectively.
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Re: Bondi Beach bus patronage

Postby burrumbus » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:33 pm

And to make sure the headways and vehicles used on those timetables have the ability to cover the patronage offering in a timely,safe manner.
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