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Bus onboard PIDS

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Bus onboard PIDS

Postby ChrisRich » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:55 am

Singapore, Copenhagen and other cities around the world have PIDS installed inside the busses displaying next step, informercials, adverts etc.
PIDS = Passenger Information Display System e.g:
http://landtransportguru.net/web/wp-con ... 16-CNA.jpg

Does anyone know the history (if any) and current status of this for Sydney?
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Daniel » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:40 am

Go and check out the B line buses.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby boronia » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:45 am

The STA Metrobuses were fitted with a crude dot-matrix style "next stop" display, which was not renowned for accuracy. Rare to find any working these days.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby swtt » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:23 pm

boronia wrote:The STA Metrobuses were fitted with a crude dot-matrix style "next stop" display, which was not renowned for accuracy. Rare to find any working these days.


All of which are GPS based. In a big city with tall buildings and if the GPS system doesn't use a viable mobile data colocationing, it's bound to fail.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby ChrisRich » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:39 pm

Daniel wrote:Go and check out the B line buses.


I see, B-line certainly has some of that. What's the market share of B-line busses compared to the rest?
You reckon there'd be a market in Australia for informercials and adverts in busses adding an additional revenue stream?
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby tonyp » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:56 am

Most of this type of PID I've seen (mainly in Europe) don't have advertisements, that would be an optional extra.

I've been wondering for a while what the large PID screens installed in the Volgrens on the Gong Shuttle are intended to display ultimately. At the moment they only duplicate the driver's CCTV display from all of the cameras around the bus, including a wonderful full-screen view at every stop showing what an excellent view drivers have of the centre door nowadays (what safety issue?).
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Stonesourscotty » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:57 pm

Don't some of the buses in Liverpool have displays? Cheap chinese esque built buses?
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Linto63 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:22 pm

In most overseas places I have seen them used, screens usually rotate through the various cctv angles as a deterrent to the neanderthals. Of course that we only have cctv cameras around the doorways and not in the rear corners means that vandalism continues unabated while in other places where it was a problem it has largely been overcome.

There was a theory in the early 2000s that people would watch tv on their commute and thus adds could be shown on public transport, but invariably wherever it was trialled it failed, most people didn't like the noise or ignored it and it was thus removed. The advent of the smart-phone probably spelt the death knell.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Glen » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:43 pm

Linto63 wrote:In most overseas places I have seen them used, screens usually rotate through the various cctv angles as a deterrent to the neanderthals.

Except in Zurich perhaps, where they have (since 2009) show real time information, including real time arrivals of connections:

http://photo.tramscape.com/?pict=tram/zurich/090212.04

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SubtHFAxwl8/S ... nfo-06.JPG

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/56825585

A colleague pointed out to me how they retain a small anologue clock on all displays because research showed that people still visually related to them.

Zurich isn't called one of the best for nothing.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby ChrisRich » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:41 am

Thanks for the intel Glen. It seems Australia is somewhat behind countries like Denmark, Singapore, Germany and Switzerland. I'm still wondering why we haven't seen full featured PIDS in busses in Australian major cities. It doesn't even have to be advertising related, it could show news highlights, next stop, live bus map, expected delays, available bus connections at the next stop, points of interest etc.

I wonder what the road block is. Cost? Not finding it beneficial to passengers? Old school train of thought? Technical obstacles? Or just not useful?
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby tonyp » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:43 am

Linto63 wrote:In most overseas places I have seen them used, screens usually rotate through the various cctv angles as a deterrent to the neanderthals. Of course that we only have cctv cameras around the doorways and not in the rear corners means that vandalism continues unabated while in other places where it was a problem it has largely been overcome.

The screens in the passenger area should be for other purposes, not to mimic what the driver sees. I suspect the Wollongong interior screen was fitted for other purposes like PID or advertisements but have not been put into use, thus for some reason the driver's display is reproduced on them.

Glen wrote:Except in Zurich perhaps, where they have (since 2009) show real time information, including real time arrivals of connections:

http://photo.tramscape.com/?pict=tram/zurich/090212.04

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SubtHFAxwl8/S ... nfo-06.JPG

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/56825585

A colleague pointed out to me how they retain a small anologue clock on all displays because research showed that people still visually related to them.

Zurich isn't called one of the best for nothing.

Your photos are typical of these displays all over Europe. However, most that I've seen have a digital clock. I suspect that the Swiss just hanker nostagically after their "Swiss watches" (that are now made in China)!
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:41 am

Stonesourscotty wrote:Don't some of the buses in Liverpool have displays? Cheap chinese esque built buses?
You might be talking about the Deawoo BS120SN King Long 6125AG that Interline have a number of
http://fleetlists.busaustralia.com/nsw. ... 26125AG%22
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Bjwh86 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:04 am

Busways have displays in some of the CB80’s or Bustech VST’s
Only seen them showing destination of the route they are on and never a fully functional display.
Others have shown UK services.


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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby jpp42 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:39 am

swtt wrote:All of which are GPS based. In a big city with tall buildings and if the GPS system doesn't use a viable mobile data colocationing, it's bound to fail.


That's a pretty negative attitude. As you should know, the bus computer that drives Opal has several sources of location input, it uses a "dead reckoning" method in addition to the GPS input. Furthermore the driver can advance the system if the location estimates are inaccurate. In addition, GPS is only an issue in the CBD between say, World Square and Wynyard/CQ, anywhere else it should work fine.

It makes entirely too much sense that a PIDS system should connect into the existing stop information known to the Opal computer (however as tonyp would say, as it makes too much sense, this probably rules out TfNSW from choosing it).

I travelled to Kyoto Japan nearly 10 years ago now and their bus system had PIDS - in Japanese and English both - clearly announcing each stop, as well as recorded announcements. It appeared to be on all routes too, we took some that weren't necessarily tourist focused.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:56 am

jpp42 wrote:
That's a pretty negative attitude. As you should know, the bus computer that drives Opal has several sources of location input, it uses a "dead reckoning" method in addition to the GPS input. Furthermore the driver can advance the system if the location estimates are inaccurate. In addition, GPS is only an issue in the CBD between say, World Square and Wynyard/CQ, anywhere else it should work fine.



And, by the look of my last Opal statement there was obviously something wrong at Eastgardens over several weeks.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby boronia » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:59 pm

jpp42 wrote:
swtt wrote:All of which are GPS based. In a big city with tall buildings and if the GPS system doesn't use a viable mobile data colocationing, it's bound to fail.


That's a pretty negative attitude. As you should know, the bus computer that drives Opal has several sources of location input, it uses a "dead reckoning" method in addition to the GPS input. Furthermore the driver can advance the system if the location estimates are inaccurate. In addition, GPS is only an issue in the CBD between say, World Square and Wynyard/CQ, anywhere else it should work fine.

It makes entirely too much sense that a PIDS system should connect into the existing stop information known to the Opal computer (however as tonyp would say, as it makes too much sense, this probably rules out TfNSW from choosing it).

I travelled to Kyoto Japan nearly 10 years ago now and their bus system had PIDS - in Japanese and English both - clearly announcing each stop, as well as recorded announcements. It appeared to be on all routes too, we took some that weren't necessarily tourist focused.
I first went to japan over 30 years ago, and buses and trains then had onboard announcements, some had visual displays. I think the announcements were on some sort of cassette tape which could be manually advanced for each next stop. GPS in those days stood for "Gotta Press Something" ?? LOL. Nara was the only place I recall that had bi-lingual announcements back then, although the major trains services did; but a two minute announcment in Japanese might have been followed by just a few words in English.
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Re: Bus onboard PIDS

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:05 pm

boronia wrote:
I first went to japan over 30 years ago, and buses and trains then had onboard announcements, some had visual displays. I think the announcements were on some sort of cassette tape which could be manually advanced for each next stop. .


And West Germany and many other places in Europe in 1979.
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