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New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Free Lance » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:50 pm

Chatswood has two set of traffic lights and can get very congested with taxis and local buses thus would add time for those impatient types who always want an express for personal use.
A classic is when on rail route 60 Chatswood to Epping they always want an express to their destination even though that route only has 3 intermediate stops.
Another service where the express is of no value is on the South Line, the all stations between Fairfield and Granville is quicker 90% of the time even though the actual running time is only 2 longer for the all stations service, wait 5 minutes for an express bus that will in most cases be slower than the service with 3 extra stops (and 2 sets of traffic lights).
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby VivalaBuses » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:55 pm

Not having a Chatswood stop gives flexibility to optimise the route e.g. if Pacific Highway is badly congested, the buses can run divert via A3 and M2 instead.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Liamena » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:26 pm

Free Lance wrote:I am sure whatever happens there will be sufficient instructions (for those who care to look at them)
If you have done "rail" before you will understand


You're joking, right ?

According to the transportnsw.info site ( which most customers won't see _), there are 4 train replacement bus routes from Gordon, to:

Pymble and Turramurra only.
Pymble, Waitara, and Hornsby only.
Pymble, Waitara, Hornsby, Asquith, Mt Colah, Mt Kuringai and Berowra
Pynble, Turramurra, Warrawee, Wahroonga, Waitara and Hornsby.

I've already forgotten the complicated, tricky, and unnecessarily obscure route numbers. How about calling them route A,B, C and D ? Anyone on
the ground at Gordon doesn't give a hoot what the bus to Cheltenham is called....

The combination of stations there seems quite perverse, unless you realise that it is driven by traffic and access difficulties to some of the stations,
rather than by station popularity or connectivity or any other criterion actually related to public transport,
which people who drive in the area or used weekend trackwork buses before might have realised, but which will confuse other people who are
from far away, or don't usually use trains on the weekend.

Every time there is trackwork, there are people upset that they are on the wrong bus. Or wasting huge amounts of time asking the same
questions over and over again. Every time I catch a bus from Chatswood, there is some little old lady on the bus who apparently can't count up to
one or up to two, and doesn't get off at Roseville or Lindfield.

Signage will be terrible, you can be assured of that. The corflute signs will be at knee level, therefore illegible if there is anyone standing around. Buses
will arrive randomly, and stop in the wrong places, and even if the customer has memorised the route number, it won't appear on the bus and the
driver will have forgotten to turn the little cardboard sign on the dashboard over to the right side. Or the driver doesn't know which of the possible routes
he will be doing next until the fat controller tells him.

Here's what I would do.

First thing, I would move the bus stop for the service to East St Ives to the otherside of the road. I'd ban parking between the two pedestrian crossings.
If necessary, I would move that bus stop around the corner to Khartoum St or Roberts St. The users of this bus are 100% locals and they will figure it out.

Second thing. I would ban parking between the driveways of the two carparks on Werona Avenue. Then there is room for four separate stops, at least
2 between the pedestrian crossings and another 1 in front and another 1 behind the normal bus stop, which is long enough for at least 2 buses.

I'd have one bus stop for each of the 4 routes, and I'd put up big signs labelling them A,B,C,D. If someone complains that stands B and C are on the other
side of the station, then I would call them F,G,H,K and rename the bus routes to match them.

The next thing I would do, is put a big sign 2 metres above the walkway on the fence facing the short flight of stairs down from the concourse level.
The sign is facing the people walking down the stairs and not blocked by people standing in front of it. This is at the junction of the two ramps
heading left and right down to street level. I will built such a sign from broomsticks and cable ties if it is too difficult for the people who
run this rail replacement service.

And on this sign, I would put

A. Pymble, Waitara, Hornsby, Asquith, Mt Colah, Mt Kuringai and Berowra TO CENTRAL COAST TRAINS.
B. Pymble and Turramurra only.
C. Pymble, Waitara, and Hornsby only.
D. Pymble, Turramurra, Warrawee, Wahroonga, Waitara and Hornsby.

and next to the A, B, C, D I would put big diagonal arrows pointing left and right down the two ramps to the
four bus stops I mentioned before. A and B to the left and C and D to the right.

You can catch any bus to Pymble, but they are locals and they will figure it out. On the other hand, there would
be quite a few customers from the central coast who have never even been on the north shore line before and
have no idea about the order of the stations.

And then at the bottom of each of the two long ramps, I'd put more signs. At the bottom of the long
ramp on the left ( going down ), I'd put a big sign Bus stop A ( arrow to the left ) Bus stop B ( arrow to the right ).
I'd put a similar sign at the bottom of the other long ramp. C to the left and D to the right.

Having the information visible is better than having people scurry from electricity pole to electricity pole
down on the street, trying to read the illegible signs and getting in the way of arriving buses.

And then, under that lot, I would add another sign "Catch any bus to Hornsby and change for buses for the T1 Northern Line".

I'd put a huge sign in front of the old ticket window, facing people coming up the stairs from platform 2.
"Rail Replacment buses to Central Coast line and T1 north shore line" with a huge arrow pointing to the RIGHT.
People walking up the stairs might see arriving buses disgorging passengers to their left, and draw the wrong
conclusion about where they should go.

And then I would ban parking at the kerb between the entrance of the small carpark at the SE corner of the
station, and the roundabout at the bottom of the hill. I would send the bus marshall to wait at the
top of this section of the roadside. The bus marshall will consult with each driver, check where the
bus drive thinks he is going, tell the driver where
to go, tell the driver which of the 4 stands to go to, tell the driver when to go there,
and make sure the driver is displaying the correct stopping
information on his piece of cardboard on the dashboard, which should be printed in a decent bold font.
[ Many times, particularly at Hornsby, there are two routes towards Chatswood and then the bus arrives
and stops at the wrong sign and people board the bus and then get upset when it doesn't stop at their
station ]. Sort out where the bus is going to go to, before it arrives at the actual bus stop. Don't stop
at one stop and then change your mind and go to another stop.

It should not be necessary for every passenger to confirm with the bus marshall and then again
with the driver, where the bus is going to go. This wastes a lot of everybody's time and is particularly
annoying when the bus driver is from another area and actually doesn't know.

I'd put another big sign at the west entrance of the station.
"Buses towards Hornsby and Berowra for Central Coast services"
and a huge arrow pointing in the relevant direction to the other
side of the station. You can add "Werona Avenue" if you like, but
remember that people coming from 150 km away will probably
have no idea where that is.

This will pre-alert people who have just arrived on a bus at the west
side of the station, that they won't be returning to the same place
when they arrive again later to travel northwards.

And the last thing I would do, is add route E, express Gordon to Berowra
using the freeway.

This would be a minimum 10 minutes faster, and more like 20 minutes faster
in busy traffic periods, than dragging central coast passengers through
and extra 19 sets of traffic lights ( northbound ) or 22 traffic lights ( southbound )
between the Wahroonga F1 junction and Berowra.

It would be a superior option for any central coast line passengers north of Town Hall,
than backtracking to Central and then getting stuck on a bus in heavy traffic anyway.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Liamena » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:33 pm

Free Lance wrote:Without seeing the actual route details one can only make an assumption, Gordon Terminators would most like stop at the bus interchange at the railway station, if the e Express to Central was to make such a detour I estimate it would add 10minutes to the journey with a similar slow down if Chatswood was included. Imagine the screams from those who thought "EXPRESS" would mean a quicker journey. I could be wrong, it has happened before.


I would not make that assumption at all.

I'd actually expect that the express bus from Berowra to Central might go to Cheltenham and then take the M2 and Lane Cove tunnel to central. It is congested from Normanhurst to Cheltenham, but in January and with schools closed it might be that bad.

I have also seen express buses use the Lane Cove tunnel and then the road towards Pymble to bypass congestion around Chatswood.

I would not recommend detouring the Berowra to Central bus to either Gordon or Chatswood. I would recommend having an additional express bus from Berowra to Gordon.

As for Gordon, I would expect that buses will set down at the set down stop at the bus interchange on the west side, and then proceed through the underpass to pick up passengers on the other side at Werona Avenue. That seems to be the most common scenario when the line is closed north from Gordon. I don't think that the "bus interchange" has enough room to operate these rail replacement services.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Free Lance » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:40 pm

Don't forget some drivers (NO they are only "SWA" if you have done rail with any of them you know who I mean) are morons and would arrive at the starting point after their departure time and out of sequence, and on the first trip it is always fun to find which stand you should be using. Been doing this stuff way too long.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Liamena » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:43 pm

Free Lance wrote:Without seeing the actual route details one can only make an assumption, Gordon Terminators would most like stop at the bus interchange at the railway station, if the e Express to Central was to make such a detour I estimate it would add 10minutes to the journey with a similar slow down if Chatswood was included. Imagine the screams from those who thought "EXPRESS" would mean a quicker journey. I could be wrong, it has happened before.


I agree about not detouring buses, which slow things down so much.

Which is why I think that it is inappropriate to make passengers who need the bus to bridge the gap from Berowra to Gordon, innapropriate to make them go such a slow way round with extra traffic lights and almost all stops via Hornsby, to Gordon.

In fact, I'd suggest axing the Berowra to Central route, because taking passengers to Gordon from Berowra and getting them on a train is going to be faster most of the time, and certainly less subject to random traffic delays, and also obviously superior for anyone travelling to Chatswood, North Sydney, etc.

And also you would only need half as many buses to operate an express route between Gordon and Berowra, than between Central and Berowra. And a lower risk of the service becoming uncontrollably disorganised. And also more comfortable for most passengers than riding on a bus. You could operate more frequently with the same number of buses.

There isn't an express route to Strathfield for passengers from the central coast to Parramatta or anywhere else. They are presumably expected to go to Epping and then take a normal all-stops T1 train from Epping to Strathfield.

I am doubtful that any bus from Berowra to Central is going to beat a bus from Berowra to Gordon and then a normal T1 train.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Liamena » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:51 pm

Free Lance wrote:Don't forget some drivers (NO they are only "SWA" if you have done rail with any of them you know who I mean) are morons and would arrive at the starting point after their departure time and out of sequence, and on the first trip it is always fun to find which stand you should be using. Been doing this stuff way too long.


When there is rail replacement between Chatswood and Hornsby, there are normally at least two routes, one detouring into Turramurra and the other ones not. It is a real crapshoot whether this takes 4 minutes or 24 minutes, just to get in and out of Turramurra. So, of course buses arrive "out of sequence".

Furthermore, for passengers at any stop, if the all-stops bus arrives, it is a difficult decision whether to catch it. A limited-stops bus might turn up 1 minute later, and overtake the all-stops bus, and arrive at Hornsby anywhere between 2 and 22 minutes before the all-stops bus, which you can get onto, right now. On the other hand, a limited-stops bus might not show up for 30 minutes, in which case catching the all-stops bus now is the right decision to make. It's not a decision that customers should be forced to make. With their phones, walkie talkies, clipboards and lists, the bus marshalls should be in a position to provide useful guidance, particularly at the terminals more so than the intermediate locations. One does not expect them to be infallible.

And I'd add to that, the stressfulness and consequence of deciding whether to catch the slow bus, or not, depends on the situation. If I am going to the shopping mall at Hornsby, then I don't care so much. If I am going to the Central Coast, and there is a great risk of missing the train and waiting an hour at Hornsby for the next one, then I care quite a bit more.

And in this particular shutdown, with the central coast line also truncated, there are going to be a lot more people in this stressful situation,
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Free Lance » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:15 pm

All I can do is drive my allocated vehicle on the shift I get rostered, for then play in the traffic, till meal break time.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:28 am

See https://transportnsw.info/news/2017/sum ... -transport for the official holiday announcement from Transport Info.

Buses is a bit vague with of lot of days with just "Changed services"
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Stu » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:04 pm

The big events in January include:
- Opera in the Domain. (Additional services on Saturday)
- Symphony in the Domain. (Additional services on Saturday)
^ (the same additional services as Carols in the Domain)

- Sydney Festival. (Additional services on each Saturday)
- Australia Day (obviously).
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Frosty » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:17 am

In previous years they would say with the buses no to limited express bus services would run.i.e
Eastern Subs: only X39/X40 services would run.
Inner West: no express/limited stop Buses.
Except with the Northern Beaches running with quite a few express services.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Stu » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:59 pm

^ X15 & X18 services are replaced by 515 & 518 services.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby andy_centralcoast » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:18 pm

The trip planner has Gosford to Chatswood taking an additional hour travel time each way during the shutdown. It suggests using the replacement bus between Berowra and Epping, and the ECRL from Epping to Chatswood, and shows a total travel time of 2 hours 16 minutes. The direct train service from Gosford to Chatswood via Gordon takes 60 minutes.

I've sent in feedback last week asking why isn't a more more suitable replacement bus service for customers travelling between the Central Coast and Chatswood.

For comparison, the express train from Gosford to Central takes 1 hour 20 minutes. The trip planner shows 2 hours for that trip using a replacement bus from Berowra to Central. It shows the bus route goes via the Pacific Highway, through Chatswood, but surprisingly also has the bus taking the Mt Colah exit of the M1/F3, instead of the Berowra exit. Maybe there's a tight corner there that the bus can't do?
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New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Richard290 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:13 pm

Looks like on Epping Road there will be extra inbound route 290 services between Macquarie Centre and the City to supplement the half hourly 291 services, often duplicating the timings of the 291 services by a couple of minutes. These 290 services terminate at Lang Park on York Street, not at the usual Erskine Street terminus. Route 290 currently usually only runs early mornings and late nights.ImageImage
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of M54, 513, 546, 549, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Stu » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:36 pm

STA additional bus services.
North:
132, 136, 139, 142, 144, 151, 155, 156, 169, 170, 178, 180, 182, 185, L90, 199, 225, 227, 239, 244, 246 & 247.

South:
308, 370, 389, 412, 413, 422, 423, 426, 428, 431, 433, 436, 438, 439, 440, 442, 444, 461, 470, 476, 478, 483, 504 & m20.

East:
301, 303, 309, 310, 311, 314, 324, 325, 327, 333, 339, 353, 372, 373, 374, 377, 380, 381, X81, 387, 392, 393, 394, 396, 399 & 400.
* due to the recent timetable changes for services between City / BJI / Bondi Beach, this year the 382 will not be scheduled to operate additional services.

West.
202, 207, 252, 254, 288, 290, 291, 292, 343, 500, 501, 506, 515, 518, 520 & 538.
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby andy_centralcoast » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:11 pm

andy_centralcoast wrote:I've sent in feedback last week asking why isn't a more more suitable replacement bus service for customers travelling between the Central Coast and Chatswood.

Finally got a response to my feedback, a rather disappointingly generic response:
NSW TrainLink Customer Relations wrote:
Thanks for your feedback about the schedule of trackwork replacement buses throughout January.

Ongoing rail maintenance is essential to ensure the safe and reliable operation of trains.

During some periods of trackwork, the nature or location of work requires services to be replaced by buses. On these occasions, we provide bus services to accommodate the number of customers who would be using scheduled train services.

Customer feedback is helpful for identifying areas for improvement.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

Yours sincerely,

Amy
Customer Relations
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Re: New Year's Eve (and holiday period) transport

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:17 am

andy_centralcoast wrote:Finally got a response to my feedback, a rather disappointingly generic response:



"Please go away and stop bothering us"
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