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Newcastle Transport

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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Yerolo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:37 pm

tonyp wrote:Are we suggesting that Novastrians are vague simpletons who can't use apps or journey planners?


Apparently TfNSW / KD think we are, as they have staff posted at each light rail stop. Somehow they think we need guidance for a single 2.7km tram route with 6 stops and only 2 destinations....
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby neilrex » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:02 pm

Lots of people don't use mobile phones. Lots of people have eyesight too bad to attempt to use websites on mobile phones, I am one of them.

Lots of people use transport planners before they go out, that doesn't mean that they can memorise the information, particularly when they don't know when they are coming back. Eletronic devices are not a complete substitute for provision of essential information at stops.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Thu May 02, 2019 6:55 pm

Saw 2727 ST heading towards Hexham this morning with the destination set to "Supercars Shuttle"
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby LB608 » Thu May 02, 2019 7:41 pm

ScaniaGrenda wrote:Saw 2727 ST heading towards Hexham this morning with the destination set to "Supercars Shuttle"

Going the long way to Perth that's where they are this weekend
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Swift » Thu May 02, 2019 10:17 pm

neilrex wrote:Lots of people don't use mobile phones. Lots of people have eyesight too bad to attempt to use websites on mobile phones, I am one of them.

Lots of people use transport planners before they go out, that doesn't mean that they can memorise the information, particularly when they don't know when they are coming back. Eletronic devices are not a complete substitute for provision of essential information at stops.

Ever since the LNP got in 8 years ago, particularly since Andrew Constance as TM, they have had this penchant for leaving the passengers literally to their own devices to work out how to navigate the train system. In typical Liberal party form, it's all about cuts to services any way they can.
Surprisingly, the buses are a different story with more consistent timetables at bus stops than ever. That must be due to that being more the responsibility of the individual bus operators.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby tonyp » Fri May 03, 2019 9:14 am

Swift wrote:Ever since the LNP got in 8 years ago, particularly since Andrew Constance as TM, they have had this penchant for leaving the passengers literally to their own devices to work out how to navigate the train system. In typical Liberal party form, it's all about cuts to services any way they can.
Surprisingly, the buses are a different story with more consistent timetables at bus stops than ever. That must be due to that being more the responsibility of the individual bus operators.

The die-hard Labor voters on this forum are determined not to concede a single millimetre of credit to the Coalition for their transport achievements during this decade in spite of completely unprecedented levels of investment, additional services and exploding patronage. There always has to be some intangible reason why reinstating the 1995-2011 mob must be better. :lol:
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby boronia » Fri May 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Yerolo wrote:
tonyp wrote:Are we suggesting that Novastrians are vague simpletons who can't use apps or journey planners?


Apparently TfNSW / KD think we are, as they have staff posted at each light rail stop. Somehow they think we need guidance for a single 2.7km tram route with 6 stops and only 2 destinations....

There are lots of people (not just Novo's) who can't cope with PT. There has to be someone there to answer "where does the tram go?".

Many times I have watched people at Central (I) looking for a particular service. They will ask every yellow vest they pass "where does the train to XX go from?" despite getting the same answer each time. Even an answer like "it goes from platform 7" often does not compute ("so where is that?"). Even when they get on the train, they will ask several other passengers for confirmation before sitting down..
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby kypros1992 » Fri May 03, 2019 12:29 pm

tonyp wrote:
Swift wrote:Ever since the LNP got in 8 years ago, particularly since Andrew Constance as TM, they have had this penchant for leaving the passengers literally to their own devices to work out how to navigate the train system. In typical Liberal party form, it's all about cuts to services any way they can.
Surprisingly, the buses are a different story with more consistent timetables at bus stops than ever. That must be due to that being more the responsibility of the individual bus operators.

The die-hard Labor voters on this forum are determined not to concede a single millimetre of credit to the Coalition for their transport achievements during this decade in spite of completely unprecedented levels of investment, additional services and exploding patronage. There always has to be some intangible reason why reinstating the 1995-2011 mob must be better. :lol:


I'm not going to go onto a tangent of everything but using railways as an example, the red tape and constant naming and organisation structure changes was a significant factor for the upcoming issues to come

At one point in 2003, you had to deal with the following:
- Transport Co-Ordination Authority (the famous department that lasted one month)
- State Rail Authority
- Co-ordinator General of Rail
- Rail Infrastructure Corporation
- Department of Infrastructure, Planning and Natural Resources (who managed the transport planning)
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Linto63 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:47 pm

boronia wrote:Many times I have watched people at Central (I) looking for a particular service. They will ask every yellow vest they pass "where does the train to XX go from?" despite getting the same answer each time. Even an answer like "it goes from platform 7" often does not compute ("so where is that?"). Even when they get on the train, they will ask several other passengers for confirmation before sitting down..
I always find it staggering the number of people who either cannot or will not read indicator boards. Can understand if it were someone from out of town who has never been to the big smoke, but I have seen the same people do it time and time again. Likewise people boarding buses will ask does this bus go to Circular Quay when it is displayed in lettering as thick as a bible on the front and sides. Can only put it down to a big literacy problem in our society.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Swift » Fri May 03, 2019 8:28 pm

tonyp wrote:The die-hard Labor voters on this forum are determined not to concede a single millimetre of credit to the Coalition for their transport achievements during this decade in spite of completely unprecedented levels of investment, additional services and exploding patronage. There always has to be some intangible reason why reinstating the 1995-2011 mob must be better. :lol:

I'm anything but die hard, but don't think the Liberals have turned over any new leaves just because Gladys Wran has excelled in the public transport area compared to dysfunctional state Labor. They still favour big business over any other segment of the community and believe in selling off state properties that are not theirs to sell, to satisfy their ideology, not for any direct benefit elsewhere.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby BroadGauge » Fri May 03, 2019 8:46 pm

Swift wrote:In typical Liberal party form, it's all about cuts to services any way they can.

Lol, why don't you try looking at things like train timetables from now in 2019 versus those from the old days of Michael Costa and friends in charge?

Perhaps you'd like them to revert to the service level provided a decade ago in 2009, after the cuts that occurred in 2004-2005. Yay, 30 minute frequencies everywhere in Sydney!
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Swift » Fri May 03, 2019 9:11 pm

That is just a standard response to a swelling population since 2009, as the roads have become so unattractive and driven people onto alternatives.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby BroadGauge » Fri May 03, 2019 9:21 pm

Swift wrote:That is just a standard response to a swelling population since 2009, as the roads have become unbearable.

Sydney added around 800,000 extra residents between 1995 and 2011 . I don't recall severe traffic congestion in Sydney only being a new thing only occurring in the last decade?

By the way, down in Melbourne which is a city that's growing at a faster rate than Sydney, having added 1.5 million people in the last 15 years, and also has terrible traffic congestion, the train frequencies outside of peak hours on most lines haven't changed since the 1990s, which is why they still have things like 40-60 minute gaps on Sunday mornings!

Let's just blame the Liberal Party for that, despite the fact they have the ALP in control down there, who aside from one term from 2010-2014, have been running that state since 1999 :twisted:
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby neilrex » Sat May 04, 2019 10:30 pm

that's only early on sunday mornings, after that it is pretty good.

Buses on sundays in Melbourne are terrible all day.

Many routes don't run at all, and neither the journey planner nor the online timetable nor the pdf timetable make this at all obvious.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby BroadGauge » Sun May 05, 2019 9:08 am

neilrex wrote:that's only early on sunday mornings, after that it is pretty good.

The 20 minute daytime and 30 minute evening frequencies that apply on most lines after 10am are quite inferior to what is provided in Sydney.

I remember it wasn't that long ago that much of Sydney was actually worse though. Going back a decade ago, I remember that after Costa's cuts there were only 30 minute weekend services on the entire Bankstown line, Inner West line, South line, Northern line, the Cronulla branch and anywhere west of Blacktown! :twisted:
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Three bus routes reduced frequency; On-demand area extended

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:19 pm

Three bus routes (41, 43 & 48) to be reduced to a two hour frequency on weekends
On-demand bus area to be extended

https://www.theherald.com.au/story/6195 ... ine/?cs=12

THREE bus routes in east Lake Macquarie will be cut back to two-hour service intervals on weekends under changes planned for the Newcastle network, the Rail, Tram and Bus Union says.

The cuts to routes 41, 43 and 48 come as part of an expansion of the operating zone for on-demand buses to include Belmont, Redhead and Valentine.

The existing zone, which incorporates an area from Charlestown to Dudley, Eleebana and Bennetts Green, will double in size.

Keolis Downer confirmed the expansion on Monday after the union and Hunter Labor MPs slammed the planned changes which come into effect on June 30.

The private operator of the city's bus network said new timetables and an information campaign would be launched on June 16.

"There will be no changes to routes or operating hours, but the timing of services will change," Keolis Downer director corporate affairs Andrew Flecther said.

"The on-demand trial in parts of Lake Macquarie has enjoyed consistent month-on-month growth in customer numbers. Our customers love the service and positive word-of-mouth is attracting more people to public transport in the area generally.

"Whether it's getting to an appointment at Belmont, meeting a friend for coffee at Warners Bay, or a lift home from Charlestown Square ... on-demand vehicles can pick you up and drop you off anywhere within the service area."

The RTBU's Daniel Jaggers said the changes would most impact those who relied on the fixed-route buses for weekend travel in the area.

"These service cuts will impact areas like Redhead, Dudley, Valentine, Windale and Gateshead - all of which have large numbers of elderly and young passengers who depend on these services to go about their daily life," he said.

"Services to these areas were dramatically cut when Keolis Downer first introduced its new network after the NSW government handed it the bus contract for the region. "These residents are now going to suffer again."

Mr Jaggers said the service cuts to the three routes had been designed to stimulate use of on-demand buses.

"The reduction of these services to deliberately create a public transport black spot, to be then filled by the introduction of two on-demand buses, or 'premium bus services', is not good enough," he said.

"It shows a complete lack of respect for the travelling public transport users of Newcastle and no understanding whatsoever of what public transport is supposed to be.

"On-demand buses will expand in this large area from two to four, but this will in no way be adequate to cover the loss of the current hourly services."

An on-demand bus trip costs $3 for adults and $1.50 for concessions.

But unlike fixed-route buses, discounts do not apply if a customer transfers onto a fixed-route service to continue their journey.

Charlestown MP Jodie Harrison and Swansea MP Yasmin Catley said on-demand buses were being rolled out at the expense of key fixed-route services.

They said the changes did not address concerns previously raised by the community.

"For 18 months, my constituents have endured longer journey times, poorer connectivity and cuts to services - now they are facing reduced operating hours on weekends," Ms Harrison said.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:51 pm

The Newcastle Transport version is more vague as to where the reductions are

https://www.newcastletransport.info/lat ... and-events

03.06.19
Newcastle Transport service improvements

Newcastle Transport’s On-Demand service area will double in size from 30 June this year, to extend to 27,000 residents in Redhead, Jewells, Floraville, Croudace Bay, Valentine, Belmont North and Belmont.

Andrew Fletcher, Keolis Downer Hunter Director of Corporate Affairs, said they have listened to customers, spoken to their drivers and analysed their data in making the decision to double the On-Demand area.

“The On-Demand trial in parts of Lake Macquarie has enjoyed consistent month-on-month growth in customer numbers,” Mr Fletcher said.

“Our customers love the service and positive word-of-mouth is attracting more people to public transport in the area generally.

On-Demand services represent an innovative way to travel using the Newcastle Transport network.

Mr Fletcher said data from the Lake Macquarie trial proves that locals are ready to embrace new mobility solutions.

“Whether it’s getting to an appointment at Belmont, meeting a friend for coffee at Warners Bay, or a lift home from Charlestown Square, Newcastle Transport On-Demand vehicles can pick you up and drop you off anywhere within the service area,” Mr Fletcher said.

Regular routes will continue to operate in the area with a reduced frequency during off peak times when On-Demand is in service.

Along with the expansion of On-Demand services, there will also be timetable improvements across the Newcastle Transport network to improve reliability.

“There will be no changes to routes or operating hours, but the timing of services will change,” Mr Fletcher said.

New timetables and an information campaign will launch on 16 June to make sure customers are well aware of changes to regular services, which will come into effect on 30 June.

“Customers will have plenty of time to check their trips, and our Customer Service Officers will be out on the network, in major shopping centres and at our Hub at the Newcastle Interchange to provide personalised assistance to our customers,” Mr Fletcher said.

“We will be reviewing services and timetables annually to make sure we are providing the best possible transport services for our customers.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:51 pm

Andrew Fletcher confirmed these reductions on NBN TV, but he still didn't mention what times the new on-demand area (or areas) will start and end per day.

And if it's multiple on-demand areas, will a passenger have to change to another on-demand bus somewhere, making a passenger pay another on-demand fare, or will it just be an expanded on-demand area for the on-demand fare?

https://www.nbnnews.com.au/2019/06/04/l ... -services/

The Newcastle Transport page states "improvements" I fail to see how reducing from every 1 hour to every 2 hour is an improvement.

Along with the expansion of On-Demand services, there will also be timetable improvements across the Newcastle Transport network to improve reliability.

Andrew Fletcher via Newcastle Transport News wrote:“There will be no changes to routes or operating hours, but the timing of services will change,” Mr Fletcher said.

I wonder what he actually means by "timings of services".
Does it also mean the 15 mins (30 on weekends) frequency on some routes will be also be reduced?
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby burrumbus » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:26 pm

Hi Newcastle Flyer.
What sort of pax numbers does the weekend 41,43 and 48 services get ?? If those numbers are very low on the weekend then there is justification for the changes.If the numbers are okay less so.
The info I have seen indicates the on demand service within that Lake Macquarie service area has been successful and continues to grow.That area would seem to be receptive to the on demand concept,although I suspect the BCI buses in use are way too much capacity.
I do agree that the on demand fares should be integrated into the Newcastle Buses fare structure as paying an on demand fare and if the pax needs a connection to another route has to pay a second fare.
Hopefully that will happen if the on demand service is given a permanent gig.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:07 pm

The fare integration should take place as part of the next Ipart review due early next year with a consultation copy due in November this year we believe.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:23 am

The new 30 June Newcastle bus timetables are now on Transport Info. A quick look at route 43 showed a big cutback in weekend services.
Saturday 11 down to 5 and Sundays 10 down to 4.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:08 am

Transport Info advice
https://transportnsw.info/news/2019/new ... om-30-june
From Sunday 30 June services will be adjusted in Newcastle to improve reliability and provide better connections.

Bus and ferry services, including some school bus services, will have their timetables adjusted, but there will be no changes to routes and existing operating hours will be maintained. Light rail services are not affected.

The improvements include the expansion of the Newcastle Transport On Demand area to incorporate Redhead, Jewells, Floraville, Croudace Bay, Valentine, Belmont North and Belmont.

To find out more details about what's changing and to see if your travel will be impacted visit Newcastle Transport.


Newcastle Transport
https://newcastletransport.info/latest- ... provements
Service improvements

From 30 June, there will be service improvements throughout the network. These improvements include:

The expansion of Newcastle Transport On Demand service south to include the additional Lake Macquarie suburbs of Redhead, Jewells, Floraville, Croudace Bay, Valentine, Belmont North and Belmont.
Routes 41, 43 and 48 will continue to operate between 6am and 6pm weekdays, 7am and 6pm Saturdays and 9am and 6pm on Sundays. When On Demand is running, the frequency will change to a two hourly service.
Bus timetables have been adjusted to improve reliability.
Early morning ferry services from Stockton have been adjusted to connect with light rail services.
Some school timetables have also been updated at certain bus stops to better reflect congestion and travel times to get students to and from school in the Newcastle Transport area.

Timetables will be available on the Newcastle Transport website, Trip Planner or your favourite travel app from 16 June, 2019.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:03 pm

See below for examples of last weekend bus services on 41,43,48.

burrumbus wrote:Hi Newcastle Flyer.
What sort of pax numbers does the weekend 41,43 and 48 services get ??

Not sure if I've got a 43 (for example) on the weekend, but last Friday it was getting a healthy number of passengers. He had to stay at Charlestown for about 1 to 2 minutes. I'd say about 15 - 20 passengers BEFORE another say about a handful of passengers getting on at the other main Charlestown bus stop. And no it wasn't peak hour either.

burrumbus wrote:The info I have seen indicates the on demand service within that Lake Macquarie service area has been successful and continues to grow.

Every time I see them, I've only seen a maximum of say 1 passenger. Very rarely do you see passengers get on the demand service at Charlestown.

burrumbus wrote:I suspect the BCI buses in use are way too much capacity.

They mostly use the small buses for the on demand buses.

Routes 41, 43 and 48 will continue to operate between 6am and 6pm weekdays, 7am and 6pm Saturdays and 9am and 6pm on Sundays. When On Demand is running, the frequency will change to a two hourly service.

That is not true.

These are the last weekend fixed bus routes on 41, 43, 48
The last inward 41 on weekends will now leave at 15:50(A), instead of 17:05 & outward will now 16:52 instead of 17:50 Sat/18:00 Sun

A) Yes as early as 15:50!

Last 43 inward on weekends will be 16:50 instead of 17:35. Outward will now be 16:53 instead of 17:53.

Last 48 Belmont to Warners Bay via Redhead will now 16:50 instead of 18:10.
Warners Bay to Belmont via Redhead will now be 17:34 instead of 18:25 Sat/18:15 Sun

BUT the on demand bus that you have to pay a separate fare for will still run only from
09:00 - 16:00 weekdays,
07:00 - 18:00 Saturdays
09:00 - 18:00 Sundays.

In other words that area will have NO service at all in the afternoons and mornings of weekends for example.

The on demand bus should be run a lot longer, and be at the SAME Opal fare bands as normally applies, not at higher fixed fares.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby burrumbus » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:50 pm

Thank you for the excellent summary Newcastle Flyer.
Based on your info this change would appear to be a cut to services.
It would indeed be interesting to see the pax figures for weekend 41,43 and 48 services .Weekend services generally have lower numbers than weekday services ,but your example of the weekday 43 showed good numbers for a back road feeder service.
It is hard to get a gauge on demand patronage because the origin/destination patterns do not follow established route service patterns. Pick ups and drops are all over the place .I suppose the best data we can rely on the official TFNSW data or ask the regular drivers of those services.
I agree with you totally re the fare structures .The on demand services need to have the same fare structures and conditions as the regular routes as they comprise part of the network and seeing as though the on demand services are basically replacing three regular routes .I suspect the on demand services in Lake Macquarie will survive the trial period.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:40 pm

Newcastle Flyer wrote:They mostly use the small buses for the on demand buses.

These mostly use these buses: https://youtu.be/wFKZDhGIPg8 (Don't know what happened to the same but edited video I uploaded and posted to here)

SOMETIMES they use full size buses.
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