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Newcastle Transport

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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:07 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:https://transportnsw.info/news/2017/hamilton-station-temporary-closure
From 10pm Monday 18 to 2am Monday 25 September, Central Coast and Newcastle Line and Hunter Line train services will start and end at Broadmeadow station while Hamilton Station is temporarily closed.

Shuttle buses will run to and from Broadmeadow to Hamilton, Wickham, Queens Wharf, Civic and Newcastle. The train replacement buses will run according to a changed timetable and you should allow for additional travel time.

If you are connecting to or from the Hunter and Central Coast and Newcastle Line then you should change at Broadmeadow.

Use the Trip Planner to check the latest travel times or download a real-time transport app to help plan your travel.

I'm sure I saw pictures of this on FB somewhere, with Rover buses operating services.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:20 pm

Rover may have been involved during that period between 18th and 25th September when extra buses would have been required but otherwise it was always Newcastle Buses and later Newcastle Transport.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:No timetables seem to be on the trip finder yet as the dynamic Transport Info maps which use the trip finder info, show any maps as yet - trips not operating within the next two weeks although in reality the 14th is within two weeks.

Dynamic maps and Trip finder now available.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:37 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:I dont have a link for the ferry and 55N
Well I do! :mrgreen:
Enter "fe" without the quotes to get the ferry timetable & times for 55N.

Wonder why they skipped the 30's?
Last edited by Newcastle Flyer on Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:40 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Rover may have been involved during that period between 18th and 25th September when extra buses would have been required but otherwise it was always Newcastle Buses and later Newcastle Transport.


Correct, there were mainly Rover vehicles, mixed with a very few NT vehicles.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby TSE_SecretAni » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:12 pm

Ok here's a link of Newcastle Ferry timetable pdf
http://newcastletransport.info/uploads/ ... _FERRY.pdf
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110 is now a loop service on weekdays

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:17 am

From Sun 14 Jan 2018, it looks as though the Route 110 is now a loop route on weekdays, meaning you can stay on at Newcastle Station-Customs House. EG: Wickham Interchange Loop via Newcastle Station-Customs House.

And the frequency will be for most times weekdays, every 5 or 10 minutes depending on time of day.

See: https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 180114.pdf
Last edited by Newcastle Flyer on Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:16 am

Article from Newcastle Herald on the New Newcastle Transport Timetables. Just a straight to the point article and nothing about what the Herald thinks of it (And we know what people are like when the Herald has an opinion on anything)
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5146616/keolis-downer-releases-new-bus-timetables/?cs=305

Keolis Downer releases Newcastle Transport bus timetables for new network
Newcastle private transport operator Keolis Downer has released timetables for its new bus routes starting this month.

The French-Australian joint venture’s new Hunter general manager, Mark Dunlop, encouraged commuters to check their timetables and start planning their new trips before the network begins on Sunday, January 14.

“Most bus routes have been revised and new routes have been added, so I encourage customers to be prepared,” he said.

​“We are working hard to ensure customers are well informed of the changes.”

On Tuesday, Newcastle Transport’s online trip planner was showing the new double-digit bus routes and timetables from January 14 onwards.

It also showed ferries running every 15 minutes from 7am to 7pm between Queens Wharf and Stockton.

Keolis said its customer service operators would be on buses and ferries over the next two weeks to answer questions. Customers could also pick up printed timetables from the Newcastle Transport shopfront in the Hunter Street Mall.

Keolis said the new network, which was announced in late November, included more than 1000 extra services. The network features four “key routes”, with buses every 15 minutes, linking Charlestown, Glendale, Wallsend and Jesmond to the Newcastle CBD.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:38 am

I fail to see how the ferries won't be late, as it will remain at one of the wharves for only 2 minutes. And we know how slow the catt, um ur passengers can be - although for some reason the other day, it only took just over 3 minutes for the run!

But also, how are they going to have a two minute turn around when the ferry has at times has lot of passengers lining up. Remember they need to get passengers off first. From the new timetable, it looks to be only one ferry will do a 15 min frequency at most times. I think 20 minute would've been reasonable.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:46 am

Walters used to run a 10 minute service with two ferries when the wharves were slightly further apart and there was manual fare collection (and suggested tax avoidance) by one person at the Newcastle end along with much heavier loads. They were not even interrupted by a very small Tsunami after a major earthquake in Chile in 1962. This Tsunami was observed with interest from the wharf by a number of high school students heading home at about 1600, and turned out to be a 'squib' after everyone was told to be careful!

PS - I suspect that the Walters ferries were slower than the current vessels and usually had to avoid dredges.
Last edited by Tonymercury on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:28 pm

^ But for most of the day, Tonymercury it looks like just ONE ferry will be doing the every 15 minute frequency.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:48 pm

Newcastle Flyer wrote:^ But for most of the day, Tonymercury it looks like just ONE ferry will be doing the every 15 minute frequency.


If it doesn't work you'll probably hear about it.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:47 pm

The paper timetables are out, but was told today that their not to release the phone number for the 59D On-Demand trial bus yet - until the very last minute.

Their is also no brochure for the not-fixed route showing the times that this On-Demand trial will run (And before certain people claims that's because it's not a fixed route, therefore their is no timetable - I know that.) The latest information I have is that 59D will only operate when other bus routes in the On-Demand area don't operate.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:32 pm

his Newcastle Transport but not operated by Newcastle Transport but operated by Hunter Valley Buses, Rover Coaches and route 130 by Port Stephens - some to coincide with the Newcastle Transport changes

https://transportnsw.info/news/2018/low ... s-services

Lower Hunter new bus services
Tuesday 02 January

Bus passengers in the lower Hunter region will soon benefit from a major boost to services starting from Sunday 14 January 2018 and 30 January 2018.

Routes 164, 166, 130, 179, 262, 269, 270 and 275 will receive extra trips to cater for growth in customer demand.

Use the Trip Planner to plan your trip as it has up-to-date timetables and stop information. Download transport apps to assist you with your journey.

Additional services from Sunday 14 January:

Route 164 and 166: An extra 21 trips per week between Cessnock/Kurri Kurri and Maitland to connect with the newly completed Stockland Green Hills shopping centre.

Additional services from Tuesday 30 January:

Route 130: 20 extra weekly trips between Fingal Bay and Newcastle to provide more travel options between Port Stephens and Newcastle.
Route 179: 34 extra trips per week between Northbury and Rutherford on weekdays and Saturdays.
Route 262, 269, 270 and 275: 50 additional trips per week and extended services across Lake Macquarie region.

Newcastle will also introduce a new bus and ferry network on 14 January to better suit customer needs. Find out more.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Looks like 43 & 41 MAYBE in most cases is to be a loop service, with a 5 minute wait at Lake Macquarie Fair.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:48 pm

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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:50 pm

I meant it looks like 41 becomes the 43 but as separate routes, ie: where passengers have to get off, before picking up passengers for the 43, the same as a number of 363's returning via usually route 320.

That's about the only way they can provide routes 41 & 43. Let's have a detailed look.

The times for Route 43 match every Route 41 leaving Lake Macq. Fair (LMF) with a 5 minute between times at the LMF.

Besides sometimes the timetables say you stay onboard to continue your trip, but the trip planner sometimes shows it as two separate routes.
---------------------------------------------------------
But of note is that a lot of the connecting times don't match.

EG: The first bus is due to arrive AFTER the second bus is due to leave. For example, Tingira Heights / Eleebana to Charlestown. First bus (Routes 41 or 43) due to arrive Lake Macquarie Fair on the hour, the second bus (Route 28) is due to leave in most cases at :50 mins past the hour.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 am

Oh dear, I don't know what to say about this except we all knew this would happen eventually once STA's Newcastle operations were sold off and privatised.

COMMENT: Mehreen Faruqi argues Newcastle is the victim of failed privatisation experiment
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5162375/newcastle-has-become-the-victim-of-a-failed-privatisation-experiment/?cs=305

THOUSANDS of Novocastrians relying on public transport to get to work, school and university on time have come face to face with the harsh reality of this ideologically-driven, privatisation-obsessed government.

Since privatisation in July 2017, the percentage of buses that started their journey on time declined from 95 per cent to just 79 per cent, and barely half of the buses are on time in the middle of their journey.

Just over a year ago, New South Wales’ Transport Minister made the shock announcement that the entire Newcastle public transport network including all buses, ferries and the future light rail would be privatised.

This kick in the guts came just after the Liberal-National government had ripped up the direct rail connection between the Newcastle and Sydney CBDs and replaced it with what could be the world’s shortest light rail line, at a princely sum of over $220 million per kilometre.

The then premier, Mike Baird, told the people of Newcastle that the private operator “will guarantee better and more frequent public transport options, giving Novocastrians the world-class transport they deserve”.

This week, we have learnt just how low an opinion of Newcastle the NSW government has.

I think the privatised bus services are a far cry from anything even remotely world-class.

The private operator has blamed Supercars, school formals and traffic congestion for their under-performance.

Surely, these are issues that bus operators routinely come across and plan for?

In reality, private operators have to contend with the same issues public operators do, but with the added onus of making profit.

Handing services over to private operators is often touted as a fix-all solution. The more complex truth, and one which this government is ignoring, is that privatisation is not a magic bullet that makes all problems disappear.

The plummeting on time performance of buses reveals the true nature of privatisation. Newcastle is a classic case study, an experiment straight out of the neo-liberal playbook.

Against the wishes of the community, the government ripped up a perfectly functional rail line adding chaos and congestion in the city.

They then carried out a wholesale privatisation of public transport under the guise of efficiency, but there is deathly silence when the private sector inevitably fails to deliver.

This was always a recipe for disaster. Privatisation will not rectify the incompetence and bad decisions of a government, only exacerbate them.

The whole mantra of efficiency as a justification of privatisation can be laid to rest for good.

The NSW Transport Minister is on the record saying that the state will not be in the provision of public transport in 10 to 15 years’ time. Newcastle was chosen as a test case for this agenda because the Liberals have no skin in the game, having been turfed out of the seats of Newcastle and Maitland at the last election.

It’s clear that this experiment has failed the people of Newcastle. It’s time to end this privatisation disaster before it gets any worse. The government must own up to its mistake and bring public transport back into public hands.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby moa999 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:54 am

Any independent source for these stats
(Mehreen is a Greens MP).

What has the private operator actually changed?
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:58 am

But what does she say about Routes 11 - 14 all day & some of the route 20's in peak hours? Surely she thinks they're a substantial improvement/peak hour improvements on what were half &/or hourly based routes?

But there are other issues, such as requiring three/four or more buses. And they could have had improved a lot of a new network somewhat, especially connecting issues, such as the first bus due to arrive after the "connecting" bus is due to leave - Requires a long wait, or a round about way to get to some places.

But it was Labor that cut a lot of the bus routes, before slightly improving them again. The four key routes are about a 90% improvement of what Labor offered on them, only every hour even in peak hours.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:43 am

moa999 wrote:Any independent source for these stats
(Mehreen is a Greens MP).

What has the private operator actually changed?


Maybe try getting in contact with the Herald and see if they have any whereabouts for the stats that Mehreen has came up with.

If they don't know maybe see if you can get in contact with him or he's staff and if they can't be any help then I'm out of ideas. Would be nice if when they talk about stats they actually show their workings and where the stats come from instead of just saying that before STA Newcastle was privatised it had ______ amount of passengers and after it had dropped or risen to _______.

Newcastle Flyer wrote:But what does she say about Routes 11 - 14 all day & some of the route 20's in peak hours? Surely she thinks they're a substantial improvement/peak hour improvements on what were half &/or hourly based routes?

But there are other issues, such as requiring three/four or more buses. And they could have had improved a lot of a new network somewhat, especially connecting issues, such as the first bus due to arrive after the "connecting" bus is due to leave - Requires a long wait, or a round about way to get to some places.

But it was Labor that cut a lot of the bus routes, before slightly improving them again. The four key routes are about a 90% improvement of what Labor offered on them, only every hour even in peak hours.


I was on another discussion board the other day talking about Newcastle buses and how the privatisation has done more damage rather than help or assist people for the better but all I got from other users was that STA (At least their Newcastle operations) was on it's last legs and the privatisation of it couldn't have been any better. I even put forward cases of people now needing to catch multiple buses instead of just the single one they catch now. No apparently there's no issue with that.

Secondly I put forward another case of Disabled residents being disadvantaged because the stops close to their homes have been closed off and they may have to walk up a hill and down a couple of roads which could take 20 or more minuets to do. Again not an issue according to these people and somehow even more reason for them to say the service being privatised was a good thing rather than bad.

Anyway here is the response from one person who I spoke to who disagreed with me on a lot of things;

The point about complaining about using multiple buses I disagree with, because interchange based networks tend to operate at better frequency, and reduce journey times since it is easier to get to a broader range of linked destinations.

Obviously when those type of networks are implemented, people who don't like change (excuse the pun) make a lot of noise, and often stop using public transport altogether, though in the long run, cities with interchange based network designs generate more patronage.


What I said in my response to him was;

I disagree but then again I'm only going off what I've read from Newcastle Residents and those posting on the Newcastle Transport facebook page and local papers comments in related articles but I've been to Newcastle a lot in my life time to know just how much this is going to impact people.

Where as the old STA Newcastle routes would only need you catching a single bus at the most and got you where to you needed to be on ample time, the New Newcastle Transport timetable that comes into play in just 4 days time, they'll now have you catching more buses to get to where you need to go and god forbid you hop off your 1st bus and you need to get a 2nd one but it isn't a connecting bus so you have to wait 10 minuets or how ever long it takes for it to show up.

I've read comments from concerned parents about their children now not being able to get to school on time if they use the Bus. I believe KD Does operate a limited amount of School buses like STA did but it may not service the area the family resides in. The child may need to catch two public buses. maybe more depending how the new time table plays out to get to school and it may not even get them there till after school has started. There could be the option of catching an early bus but what if you need to be up at 7AM to catch it just so your son or daughter or child makes it to school on time and it may get you there before school starts but what if it's before there is any supervision or the gates or opened for the morning?

There's also the disabled that this is hugely going to have an impact on. Those with disabilities are now going to have to be re-travel trained just to catch onto the new time table. I don't think or believe it's going to be very convenient for those with disabilities to be catching a lot of buses to where they need to go. Especially if their bound to a wheelchair or if they don't have a carer of some sort with them.

Newcastle Transport claims to have talked with the Newcastle community on the Transport matters months before the New Timetable even came into play but it doesn't seem to be the case. Stops have been cut, People now need to catch more buses, those with Disabilities need to be re-travel trained to understand the network and not cause them to have an anxiety attack or panic if they catch the wrong bus or get lost. This is just not very convenient but like I said Andrew says and claims everything is fine and refuses to acknowledge any problems with the now Privatised Newcastle Transport buses service.

This (retracted) wouldn't fly in Sydney for a minuet and it isn't flying in Newcastle and the residents and community has voiced their concerns only for it to fall on death ears.


Why I even bother with arguing with people anymore I have no idea, I guess I have a thing where I like to correct people where I know their wrong and need to be corrected but they don't take being corrected and shown the light too kindly.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:40 am

ScaniaGrenda wrote:
COMMENT: Mehreen Faruqi argues Newcastle is the victim of failed privatisation experiment
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5162375/newcastle-has-become-the-victim-of-a-failed-privatisation-experiment/?cs=305


A more important question would seem to be are NT actually in breach of their contract? If not the case, it would again be TfNSW that are the problem through not agreeing a contract that works.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby burrumbus » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:09 pm

I think the piece by the Greens representative is really jumping the gun,before the network has even started.I would have thought that waiting for the network to bed down and then analysing it would be much more beneficial than just bagging it.I think the network on paper looks much better than what STA operated.The key to the network is how robust the timetabling is to make sure the connections work each and every trip.Newcastle is a hard market to serve because of low population densities over a large area with dispersed trip origins/destinations.This connection based system has the potential to improve patronage .We just need to see how well KD has worked it.
I do agree with the comment that STA in Newcastle was on its last legs.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby ed24 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:33 pm

The representative in question is always quick to criticise privatisation regardless of the circumstances.
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Re: Newcastle Transport

Postby burrumbus » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:22 pm

ed24 wrote:The representative in question is always quick to criticise privatisation regardless of the circumstances.

Yes,I've seen several pieces from the representative in question,ed24.
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