Newcastle Transport

[mandonov]

There's truly no point in retaining the 110. If timed evenly, the two frequent routes that follow it's route will be more than adequate, and it's within the fare free zone anyway.

I like the new numbering system as it's numbered by frequency. The 10's are every 15 mins during the day, the 20's are every half-hour peak and hour off-peak, the 40's are every hour.

[Newcastle Flyer]

It's on the route map, one reference near Whitebridge & the other near Warners Bay. Might not be a fixed route, but still a route, just a flexible route.

But with that on demand service, what if you need to from within that area to another outside it, that only has a bus route every hour? And quite a number of bus routes will still be based on an every hour frequency. The on-demand bus might arrive 2 mins after an hourly bus route leaves.

Mandonov, the 110 MAY continue, as it is separate from the other bus routes, but still it should've been shown to save confusion.

And for the current 110 yesterday it went direct from Hannell St & then right into Wharf Rd, oh I mean Honeysuckle Dr., instead of going up to the Carrington roundabout to do a u-turn to come back. So if it can do that on a temporary bases as the temporary map shows(ed), then why the need to go all the way up to the roundabout to do a u-turn, as the normal route map shows?

[Fleet Lists]

Mandonov, the 110 MAY continue, as it is separate from the other bus routes, but still it should've been shown to save confusion.

The fact that it is not shown tends to indicate that it will not continue.

[Fleet Lists]

But with that on demand service, what if you need to from within that area to another outside it, that only has a bus route every hour? And quite a number of bus routes will still be based on an every hour frequency. The on-demand bus might arrive 2 mins after an hourly bus route leaves.

It is impossible to coordinate an on demand route with other routes. It is impossible to estimate arrival times as the trips start on demand and may or may not pick up and drop people on the way.

[mandonov]

Well light rail construction looks to be much faster here than in Sydney. It's only been closed down a few months!

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/50928 ... 05#slide=1

Light rail taking shape in Hunter Street | PHOTOS

Michael Parris

November 30 2017 - 4:20PM





Newcastle’s light rail route is taking shape along Hunter Street as contractors pour the parallel concrete slabs which will hold the tracks.

The tracks will be recessed to road level after the state government last year reversed an earlier decision to leave them above ground.

The concrete slabs will form Hunter Street’s dedicated east- and west-bound tram lanes. Cars will run on either side of the light rail, but the design does not allow room for on-street parking.

The 2.4-kilometre tram service from the Newcastle Interchange to Pacific Park is costing almost $250 million to build, or $100,000 a metre, according to a cabinet-in-confidence business plan which became public in September.

The trams will operate with on-board energy storage, meaning they will not have overhead wires.

The service is scheduled to start operating in early 2019.

[mandonov]

Details on the on-demand 'route': http://www.theherald.com.au/story/50903 ... l-in-2018/

A new “on-demand” bus trial has been tipped to offer commuters in the area improved choice, convenience and accessibility to public transport in off-peak hours.

Customers will be able to book a service and pre-pay by credit card by phone, mobile phone app, at the Newcastle Transport Hub or by paying cash to the driver.

New timetabled services being implemented in this area as part of the new network will continue to offer customers regular routes.

On demand will operate in addition to timetabled services during daytime off-peak periods and on weekends.

There will be an introductory fare of $3 per one-way trip for the duration of the trial and concession fares will apply.

[Newcastle Flyer]

Fleet Lists, you need to add the 118 to the new bus routes, as according to the overview page it's to be retained as is. (It's under "Ferry" when pressing the Queens Wharf button)

Re ferry. With a 15 min frequency, that means that two ferries will be used at the same time, yet it says "except meal breaks". So if they're going to use the two ferries at the same time, why not just use the one ferry for that meal break?

And what happens if one of the ferries break down?

[Fleet Lists]

Re ferry. With a 15 min frequency, that means that two ferries will be used at the same time, yet it says "except meal breaks". So if they're going to use the two ferries at the same time, why not just use the one ferry for that meal break?

?

Who says that is NOT what they are going to do? They would have meal breaks at different times

And what happens if one of the ferries break down?

That is somewhat obvious - they can only use one during such a period.

[ed24]

On Watt St the light rail will cross the new Supercars street circuit first used last weekend - will be interesting to see if they change the layout, temporarily asphalt over the tracks or put a temporary chicane in around the tracks. Considering the event brought in a big crowd I imagine it will still be around by 2019.

As such, the Market St stop will also have to manage the large crowds

[Fleet Lists]

This is a quick list of new route numbers as I see it:
11, 12, 13, 14, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46 47, 48.
20 new route numbers instead of the current 26 not counting route 110.
Pity they have away from the 3 digit route numbers.

There is also a route 21 Newcastle East-Bar Beach-Merewether-Hamilton (previously 201 now serves Newcastle East instead of Marketown) which I had omitted. I did not find it in any of the webpage summaries.

[Newcastle Flyer]

^ At ed24, this information is direct by the people in charge at the sessions. I've asked about that, and for other events & they suggest they are going to put a crossover somewhere near Darby St I think it was, so they can terminate trams short of Pacific St. But I don't see any plans for an extra crossover on the maps. I still question that though, even though that's the only way they can do it (Of course if they put it where it should've been in the first place. . .)

And I believe the Supercars are to be around for 5 or 6 years.

Also ABC Newcastle has an interview with Campbell Mason on their website. It's only uploaded for one week. It should be at the start at this recorded interview here: http://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/peP ... ?play=true (note that this recording goes for 2½ hours)

There is also a route 21 Newcastle East-Bar Beach-Merewether-Hamilton

Will now go to/from Broadmeadow Station & cuts out the Beaumont St part.

[Glen]

Fleet Lists, you need to add the 118 to the new bus routes, as according to the overview page it's to be retained as is. (It's under "Ferry" when pressing the Queens Wharf button)

Re ferry. With a 15 min frequency, that means that two ferries will be used at the same time, yet it says "except meal breaks". So if they're going to use the two ferries at the same time, why not just use the one ferry for that meal break?

And what happens if one of the ferries break down?

The trip only takes 5 minutes each way.

With 2 - 3 minutes loading at each side you could run a 15 minute frequency with one boat.

[Newcastle Flyer]

With 2 - 3 minutes loading at each side you could run a 15 minute frequency with one boat.

They could possible do it in 2 or 3 minutes but then the passengers would complain that they are being "hurried up" to sit down. But I say "bugger" the passengers (except for a valid reason). The passengers might just start to turn up before the due departure time. A lot dawdle now to get on the ferry, and a lot still arrive at the time it's due to leave. And the ferry waits for them - The ferries wouldn't wait for latecomers if I was in charge (except in exceptional circumstances)!

[mandonov]

Also ABC Newcastle has an interview with Campbell Mason on their website. It's only uploaded for one week. It should be at the start at this recorded interview here: http://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/peP ... ?play=true (note that this recording goes for 2½ hours)

Interesting interview.

Judging by his description of the on demand buses having 28 seats, and the image on the Herald article it looks like the small BCI will be used for the service.

That at least bodes well for its accessibility, which is hard to say for the other examples in Sydney.

[ScaniaGrenda]

Folks, it appears the new routes are going to serve us just fine and there is nothing to worry about. /s
At least according to Keolis downer that is.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/50941 ... es/?cs=305

Newcastle private transport operator Keolis Downer has responded to complaints about its newly announced bus routes by saying they will suit the bulk of customers.

Some commuters reacted angrily on Friday to the new routes, lamenting the loss of some direct services in suburbs such as Mayfield, Lambton, Swansea and Valentine.

Keolis Downer will issue detailed timetables for the new routes on January 2 before the revamped network begins on January 14.

“So, instead of getting the 230 into town from directly outside my house, I need to get the 27 to Broadmeadow, change to a train or another bus, which then will take me as far as the Wickham interchange, where I then get a light rail replacement bus to Union Street and then walk 15 minutes,” a Lambton resident wrote on social media.

“Also, none of my kids can get a 230 straight to school now. Wonderful planning job. It's almost as if this hub arrangement is to force people to use several forms of transit to boost the numbers.”

Other Newcastle Herald readers bemoaned the loss of a direct bus to inner-city Newcastle from Swansea and Caves Beach. The new plan compels travellers to change at Belmont.

“The changes to the Swansea route are ridiculous. I thought this was about getting more people to use public transport, but this will make it more difficult,” one wrote.

“This means you won’t catch a bus; you will drive. As it is it can be over an hour on a bus to Newcastle. This will make it longer having to change.”

A Warners Bay resident said: “I can’t get to my children’s doctor any more, or karate classes, or gymbaroo.

“They’ve dropped the 320 that goes along Warners Bay Road to Mount Hutton and Charlestown. Our doctor is at Mount Hutton. There’s no bus from Warners Bay to Mount Hutton any more.

“God knows what all the elderly people who can’t walk from our area to WB any more due to the hills and rely on the 320 to get to Mount Hutton do instead.”

Other readers complained about losing direct routes to shopping centres, including the 310 from Valentine to Charlestown and the 111 from Mayfield to Kotara.

Keolis Downer, responding to questions from the Herald, said Opal data showed 60 per cent of Swansea and Caves Beach passengers stopped at Belmont. It said those continuing north would face only a four-minute wait for the new No.14 bus.

It said services in New Lambton and Lambton would be more frequent and more direct under the new routes 12 and 13 and would offer better access to Kotara and Broadmeadow station.

“We have worked to optimise the network to better meet the needs of our customers using an evidence-based approach based on Opal data, staff knowledge and community consultation,” a spokesman said.

“Our objective is to increase public transport usage across Newcastle and Lake Macquarie.

“We’re committed to delivering the best possible service for customers and we will be monitoring the network closely as customers adjust to the new network to see what is working and if any changes need to be made.”

I know drivers are drivers but I'd like to hear peoples thoughts from those behind Newcastle Transports wheel on what they think of the new routes.

Now I really miss State Transit operating here. I don't think they were likely to pull this same stunt that KD is pulling right now.

[burrumbus]

The STA Newcastle bus system has been declining in pax numbers for decades,due to a range of factors,including the massive loss of industrial jobs,the Newcastle earthquake which stuffed the CBD.,the growth in the suburban shopping malls,the change in the spread of jobs across the Newcastle area,and indeed through the Central Coast and into Sydney.The low frequency of the bus system,still aligned to providing a CBD focussed system did not encourage patronage.Aided and abetted by a centralized planning system from Sydney who aren't in Newcastle to address local needs.To be blunt the system needed to change badly and I support the governments decision to franchise it out with local planning.
I think this is a genuine attempt to improve the system.The 4 high frequency services are in the right spots in my book.Improved train connections and more localised services to reflect what the majority of pax do.I do think there are still too many long twisting bogged together routes which do not encourage patronage.I hope the timed connections are done well.

[mandonov]

Look at the current map around New Lambton and tell me that a cull wasn't what was needed: http://www.newcastletransport.info/uplo ... rk_map.pdf

[burrumbus]

The current route structure in the North Lambton/Lambton.New Lambton area features 9 different bus routes all of which,,excepting 363, operate hourly on convoluted snaking bus routes.
The Proposed route structure features 5 routes,two of which are 15 minute frequencies and which are much more direct.10 services an hour ,compared to 13 on the proposed structure.The only criticism I would have is the area around Young Road,which probably needs something through it.In my view there were just too many individual low frequency routes through that area.I think the proposed structure makes a good fist of simplfying what was an amazingly complicated low frequency system to an easier to understand higher frequency system on average.
I can see that increased numbers of connections will be necessary for the some of the longer trips in Newcastle,but the system caters for the localised journeys reasonably well,from what I can see.Hopefully the connections promised between services,paticularily in the areas in the Lake Macquarie area will be well organized.
It also seems that the 2 return trips M-F 352 from Belmont to Morisset will not be part of the new network.I've heard this did attract some patronage ,but the upgraded services from Belmont to Cardiff seem to have been preffered.

[mandonov]

Agree about the Young Rd area.

My solution to that would be to send the 27 to Westfield Kotara, and a new route from Broadmeadow to Jesmond along Young Rd and the old 225 route via the Uni.

[Newcastle Flyer]

I wonder why the 30's were left out, & why the "on-demand bus" route isn't 51D?

Regarding that quote & the 111 from Westfield Kotara to Mayfield. That will from mid-Jan require routes:-
26 or 25, Westfield Kotara to Gully Line,
27 to near Waratah Village Shops &
24 to Mayfiled, and add
11 or 47 to Tighes Hill.

That's 4 (& 5 buses for some parts) buses instead of what should be just 1 bus route.

[tonyp]

I think this is a genuine attempt to improve the system.The 4 high frequency services are in the right spots in my book.Improved train connections and more localised services to reflect what the majority of pax do.I do think there are still too many long twisting bogged together routes which do not encourage patronage.I hope the timed connections are done well.

I may have missed something in this thread, but is there a map showing where the high-frequency services run?

[Fleet Lists]

The original links http://www.newcastletransport.info/the-new-way provided a map but it may not be specific enough for what you are looking for. Not aware of any other map.

[Newcastle Flyer]

Tonyp is looking for the 4 high frequency routes of 11 - 13.

The PDF map here shows the details including the bus stops of all the routes: http://newcastletransport.info/uploads/ ... 71130a.pdf

To summarise: (every 15 mins, 30 mins for the extenstions between 07:00 - 19:00)
11 Queens Wharf - Charlestown via Mayfield & JHH,
12 Merewether Beach - Wallsend (every 2nd bus exends to Maryland)
13 Queens Wharf to Glendale via JHH (a short working of the current 363)
14 Queens Wharf to Charlestown via The Junction & Westfield Kotara (every 2nd bus extends to Belmont via 349 route)

All those key routes that run every 15 mins (30 mins on extensions) are meant to connect with buses that mainly (with some exceptions) with buses that run only every hour.

And then you have the hourly bus routes that are meant to connect with another hourly bus route.

That's all the :"high frequency routes their will be.

No direct bus from Queens Wharf/Newcastle CBD to Swansea. No direct bus Westfield Kotara to Mayfield as my previous post, no direct bus Westfield Kotara to Newcastle University.

What have bus companies got against the Hillsborough area, as that area will have no KD bus route. I was told that but that will be covered by HVB's 262/263. But then Wallsend to Maryland is served by HVB

[tonyp]

Tonyp is lookign for the 4 high frequency routes of 11 - 13.

The PDF map here shows the details including the bus stops of all the routes: http://newcastletransport.info/uploads/ ... 71130a.pdf

To summarise: (every 15 mins, 30 mins for the extenstions between 07:00 - 19:00)
11 Queens Wharf - Charlestown via Mayfield & JHH,
12 Merewether Beach - Wallsend (every 2nd bus exends to Maryland)
13 Queens Wharf to Glendale via JHH (a short working of the current 363)
14 Queens Wharf to Charlestown via The Junction & Westfield Kotara (every 2nd bus extends to Belmont via 349 route)

Thanks for that, much appreciated. Funny that the "Newcastle Transport Hub" doesn't include the railway station and the railway station (Newcastle Itg) is bypassed a block away by the high frequency routes. Same with Boradmeadow.

I gather there's no actual bus station or interchange at the railway stations - the buses just drive by stops on both sides of the adjacent street? All seems like Hicksville stuff.

[boronia]

Weren't they planning to put a bus interchange on the The Store site across the road when it's demolished?