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STA Observations - September 2017

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STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:49 pm

I have across a timetable for a route 170 between Many and Wynyard operating on weekends only. I have not been able to find a hard copy timetables amongst the old pdf timetbes
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 170604.pdf Does anyone have any further information on this route?
On the other hand the timetable for route 176 Dee Why to Wynyard which is one of the routes to disappear with B-Line is missing.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Frosty » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:56 pm

That's bizarre I see show up in TripView as well those 170 runs can't seem to find a reason why they would have those trips. If Im not mistaken I think the 176 trips were turned into E76 trips earlier this year.

On another note saw a some trips in Tripview for Sunday of the X81 for festival of the winds. Also m50 destos to Coogee now show via Randwick Jn rightfully instead of UNSW.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:13 pm

176 is due to become E76 with the introduction of B-Line later this year.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:27 pm

Going back a few years ago when Opal was being introduced route 170 was mentioned as not being included in the formal Opal routes as it was an emergency ferry replacement route. Hence I would be very surprised if it operated every Saturday and Sunday as indicated by the timetable on Transport Info.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Richard290 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:36 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:I have across a timetable for a route 170 between Many and Wynyard operating on weekends only. I have not been able to find a hard copy timetables amongst the old pdf timetbes
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 170604.pdf Does anyone have any further information on this route?
On the other hand the timetable for route 176 Dee Why to Wynyard which is one of the routes to disappear with B-Line is missing.

I spotted a 170 service in the flesh heading in the opposite direction to me toward Manly on Spit Road at Mosman two Sundays ago. I think it's to provide a direct City to Manly service on weekends along with stops along Sydney Road.
No mention of it in the B-Line service changes plan.
Last edited by Richard290 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby 743 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:50 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:176 is due to become E76 with the introduction of B-Line later this year.

Incorrect. Route 176 was discontinued after 21 October 2016.
Click here for a photograph of the last Route 176 service.

Also, flyer stating this change: Download here
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:56 pm

You are right so the B-Line brochure must be wrong when it states:-

176
Dee Why to City
Route discontinued Replaced with route E76
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Stu » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:10 pm

Besides ferry replacement, route 170 is scheduled for special events such as NYE, Aust. Day, Mardi-Gras, VIVID and Boxing Day. In recent weeks this service has been used on to replace the Manly ferry due to tidal surges. Artics are normally scheduled although some rigids are scheduled from time to time.

This timetable appears to be the base timetable for weekend services and must be an error in being published. The other reason for this timetable is the fact that the Manly Sea Eagles vs Penrith Panthers in a sudden death semi-final at Allianz Stadium Moore Park.

Manly supporters travelling to the Manly vs Bulldogs game at Brookvale Oval were provided with additional route 238 services from Taronga Zoo Whf on Friday afternoon 04/03/16 which was on Mardi-Gras night. 9 x additional trips between 10:10 & 14:10 on Friday 04/03/16 and then there was the additional 24 x trips for Mardi-Gras on Sat 05/09/16.

EDIT: I made a correction to distinguish that the NRL game was on Friday and Mardi-Gras was on Saturday, overall, it was a busy two days for the route 238.
Last edited by Stu on Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:00 am

Route 170 has been running every weekend for the past couple of months to the above timetable. It's not an error. As for the real reason why?, not too sure - they don't carry heavy loads, especially not having the benefit of permanent signage although they do at least relieve some existing services along Military Rd. The 144s can get quite busy, but for simplicity and consistency, it would have been better to just add extra 144s to deal with any capacity issues present. Aside from peak summer times, I doubt the ferry would be getting full on a regular basis on weekends to justify the 170.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:26 am

Now that it has been confirmed that it is operating every weekend, Stu may be able to find out a bit more.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Rick R » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:02 pm

The 170's are additional services laid over the top of the current timetable, demand for travel between Wynyard and Manly was recognised so these services have been put on. They were introduced this year and as no paper TT's were printed for the Oct 2016 review, none have been printed. Although loadings might be light in winter they will pick up in summer.

Short of a change of Govt, some here will just have to adjust to the fact that traditional timetables as we know them are being phased out. These additional trips show up in trip searches, which suits weekends where many passengers are making irregular trips and will tend to use a trip search.

Traditionally route 150 is used for direct Ferry replacement services between Circular Quay and Manly, 170 is now used when serviced operate between Wynyard and Manly.


The B-line network changes would have been in the works for a long time, hence the removal of the 176 being listed. The changes last year were probably used as an opportunity to undertake some housekeeping and alter the 176 to the E76, as many other express only routes had additional services added to the shoulder peak.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Stu » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:17 pm

The last time that I recall the special event route 150 in operation was in October 2013 during the International Fleet Review.
- Manly to Circular Quay.
- Manly to Wynyard.
- Circular Quay to Manly.
- Wynyard to Manly.

On a side note, former route 312 was resurrected to operate as a special event route providing loop shuttle service between Martin Pl and Garden Is.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Stu » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:19 pm

Route 170 services commenced operating regularly on weekends as a non special event service from:
- Sunday 2nd July. This means that the first Saturday for this timetable was in 8th July.

There has been no official announcement as to why this is happening. I have my own ideas;
- increase the quality of service provision along the Military Rd and Spit Rd corridor by compensating for other routes that may be delaye or over crowded - in the middle months leading up to new Northern Beaches network and progressive implementation of B-Line services. Military Rd has become exteneky congested due to increased vehicular traffic over the past two years, all day weekend traffic is now much worse than weekday peak traffic.
- route 170 services may stay on during the early days of B-Line as a back up measure for service provision.
- route 170 may be announced publicly as officially a permanent weekend service post B-Line.

* in addition to what Rick R has mentioned; B-Line service planning at STA commenced in February last year and would have been in the planning works at TfNSW long before that.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Frosty » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:40 pm

In theory if there was demand for more transport between Manly & CBD surely Manly Fast Ferries could lay on more services but they do have to ensure to make profit on these services.

I can't seem to find info on Transportnsw.info website if Oxford/Flinders St services on Sun Sep 17 will be diverted due to the Sydney Marathon going down these routes.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Stu » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:36 pm

^ The Oxford St & Flinders St services are listed under affected routes on Transport Info so I would presume that the same or similar diversion will be in place.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:50 pm

Frosty wrote:In theory if there was demand for more transport between Manly & CBD surely Manly Fast Ferries could lay on more services but they do have to ensure to make profit on these services.

.

Most likely the extra demand is from people who would not want to pay the Fast Ferry fares.
Although that could change once Opal is accepted on Fast Ferries even though most likely that will still cost more than other ferry/bus fares eg they would charge extra even if the Gold card is to be accepted by them.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:10 pm

So I want to bring up a point of discussion, an observation thats been on my mind for a short while now.

I notice the Mercedes O4O5NH Gas buses (one of my favourites in the fleet) are now an extreme rarity during the late night, ie, past 9pm. Yet funnily enough, the older Scania / Volvo B10 / Orana buses can still be found quite commonly during late night. But the former bus, it seems like it is deliberately ruled out for running any late-night service nowadays. Common during the daytime on many Leichardt routes eg, but replaced with more or less only 2016 Bustechs for the night. I saw one departing Rozelle on a 440 at 11pm earlier this week, and the last time I saw one out and about that late must have been, I don't know, a year or two ago.

Is it because they lack a safety glass panel at the drivers seat? Just very curious to know exactly what goes on in the minds of whoever does STA rosters :)
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Stonesourscotty » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:22 pm

I had a 224* 3? Or 7 I think metrobus on the m52 with full working audio and next stop displays normally there out of sync or not working at all.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Swift » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:01 pm

Walked toward a 397 inbound stop at Mons Ave, Maroubra only to hear the sound of a Volvo B12BLE roaring uphill and sure enough it was doing the 397 as I was still walking toward the stop. I was crestfallen as you don't often see a Euro III Volvo on that run and it would have made a nice throwback to the days when P operated the type along there a decade ago. I did enjoy my dusk walk to Maroubra Jcn though, so not all was lost. Yes I know, it would have been one of the occasional R based buses that do this mainly P based run.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:39 am

Don't know if permanent, but there was a change in the fleet used on the late night M20 runs tonight, which has normally been Metrobus Volgren bendies.

Tonight, one service was run by a Scania Ansair Orana, the other a Bustech.

Wouldn't surprise me if permanent - I've taken a lot of these late night services and tbh, they're mostly dead , the number of people on it each night, you can count it on a single hand - definitely does not justify the use of a bendy (even if I like Volgrens)

Actually. I'm not even sure why M20, and that exact section, got a late night extension, when there's the 343 and that other 30_ bus that runs late, towards Zetland.

If you ask me, M30 Sydenham-Wynyard would've been a better choice, as Sydenham doesn't even have a Nightride or otherwise late bus service
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Stonesourscotty » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:23 am

Noted the first few m20s around 6am at town hall are run by whatever tempe throws at the route can get anything from bustechs to custom volvos 15** series volvos are common though
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby marcnut1996 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:02 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:Don't know if permanent, but there was a change in the fleet used on the late night M20 runs tonight, which has normally been Metrobus Volgren bendies.

Tonight, one service was run by a Scania Ansair Orana, the other a Bustech.

Wouldn't surprise me if permanent - I've taken a lot of these late night services and tbh, they're mostly dead , the number of people on it each night, you can count it on a single hand - definitely does not justify the use of a bendy (even if I like Volgrens)

Actually. I'm not even sure why M20, and that exact section, got a late night extension, when there's the 343 and that other 30_ bus that runs late, towards Zetland.

If you ask me, M30 Sydenham-Wynyard would've been a better choice, as Sydenham doesn't even have a Nightride or otherwise late bus service

There are no other buses from Central to Waterloo. 30x does not go pass Central while 343 does not go to Waterloo.
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 pm

Indeed it doesn't, but it does go to Circular Quay and Museum. As for 343, I stand corrected.

I'm not criticising though there are enough generous bus enhancements on the way as announced earlier this year, including some new NightRide routes so I'm very much looking forward to that
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby boronia » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:38 pm

I think most of those rigids on m20 are short runs from Wynyard, to compensate for lack of 309/310 in the CBD
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Re: STA Observations - September 2017

Postby Frosty » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:48 pm

The off-peak short runs generally run between Wynyard & Zetland Joynton Ave only so therefore wouldn't be useful for 309/310 users if they want a one seat ride towards Botany. Some the early morning runs if I'm not mistaken end up as a 305 outbound services hence the regular 12.5m buses. The m20 short workings during peak hour are for overcrowding measures while off peak runs are to link Zetland & Waterloo with Central & City.

Using the 309/310 a bit more recently during peak hour I've noticed there is an issue where often where the 309/310 services run full and unable to pick up after Gardeners Rd. While often the X09/X10/X93 still have room. Maybe it would be smart for the X93 to pick up at few stops immediately after the turn into Botany from Gardeners.

There is something interesting to note with the m20 heading southbound from the City towards Botany in the morning peak M & L drivers generally will never run early through the City. While T & P will run early knowing they will otherwise end up being late by the time they get to Botany.
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