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Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby captainch » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:31 pm

with driverless trains how does a wheelchair passemgers get in touch with staff if something goes wrong or they need help to get of train at a station? or someone falls sick! & most staff are not on platforms but upstairs on station ramps that is if the stations are manned!
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby swtt » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:04 pm

captainch wrote:with driverless trains how does a wheelchair passemgers get in touch with staff if something goes wrong or they need help to get of train at a station? or someone falls sick! & most staff are not on platforms but upstairs on station ramps that is if the stations are manned!


There will be at least one customer service attendant per train, I'm led to believe.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby boronia » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:24 pm

There would surely be some form of communication system between carriages and a control centre.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:34 am

swtt wrote:
There will be at least one customer service attendant per train, I'm led to believe.


Presumably qualified as an emergency driver as at Docklands.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby Glen » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:40 am

captainch wrote:with driverless trains how does a wheelchair passemgers get in touch with staff if something goes wrong or they need help to get of train at a station? or someone falls sick! & most staff are not on platforms but upstairs on station ramps that is if the stations are manned!

Presumably the same as any other overseas driverless metro.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby tonyp » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:31 pm

Following earlier discussion here and on other forums, I got all those national comparative suburban and interurban journey times (the ones that showed NSW trains to be the slowest in Australia) together and sent them off in a letter to the Minister. Unlike previous attempts where I got the usual platitudinous response from a PR type, this one must have had enough meat in it to get an input from engineering people and signed off by the Parliamentary Secretary. Possibly they were stung by the extreme comparison with Perth. If so, it's a good thing they're aware of it if they weren't before.

To cut a long story short, we're not going to get faster double deck operations any time soon because there are far too many infrastructure issues to resolve quickly. The interesting one for the interurban services is the large number of unprotected rural level crossings which "heavily determine" line speeds in order to maintain good sight lines. There were other issues mentioned but this one seems to have the strongest bearing on operating speeds.

The other very pertinent point (in view of the performance claims made by double deck advocates) is that they said that it was impossible to match the performance of those single deck trains in other states because double deckers are disadvantaged on acceleration, deceleration, braking and dwell times. I'm normally sceptical of anything I'm told, but this aligns with my own previous conclusions. Double deckers are not cut out for urban commuter work but are an unavoidable necessity for longer distance, high-volume work where higher seating capacity is needed.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:53 am

tonyp wrote:
To cut a long story short, we're not going to get faster double deck operations any time soon because there are far too many infrastructure issues to resolve quickly. The interesting one for the interurban services is the large number of unprotected rural level crossings which "heavily determine" line speeds in order to maintain good sight lines.


Not much of an issue for Newcastle and Lithgow services, surely?

What are the life speeds for Geelong and Bairnsdale services?
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby tonyp » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:52 am

Tonymercury wrote:
What are the life speeds for Geelong and Bairnsdale services?

I've been asked by others as well to do some wider examples interstate so I'll add that to the list. I have looked them up before. I recall Geelong is very fast, Latrobe Valley not so much and held up on the suburban section. Shame they pulled the wires down in Latrobe valley. That could have been a classic double deck interurban service with V sets!
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:36 pm

And isn't Victoria plagued with level crossings, except on the Regional Fast Rail.?
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby tonyp » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:52 pm

Tonymercury wrote:And isn't Victoria plagued with level crossings, except on the Regional Fast Rail.?

After studying the south coast diagram I could find only about 14 unprotected level crossings in the Kiama-Bomaderry sector (many of them farm access) and none between Kiama and Waterfall - they probably got rid of them during electrification. So all that big noise in the letter about level crossings was about Kiama-Bomaderry, even though you have the impression they're talking about the whole line. And as you say, probably nothing for Newcastle, Blue Mtns or in all likelihood Main South. What a piece of deception! But typical isn't it? TfNSW - the excuse factory.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby Free Lance » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:59 pm

One 'controlled" cross at Faulconbridge sticks in my mind, also Douglas Park, Yennora - Fairfield and Blackheath
Not sure, maybe Riverstone, East Richmond, Mulgrave and Clarendon, will stand corrected on those, been I long while since I went to Richmond High (by steam train)
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby tonyp » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:29 am

Free Lance wrote:One 'controlled" cross at Faulconbridge sticks in my mind, also Douglas Park, Yennora - Fairfield and Blackheath
Not sure, maybe Riverstone, East Richmond, Mulgrave and Clarendon, will stand corrected on those, been I long while since I went to Richmond High (by steam train)

I went across Douglas Park the other day but forgot to notice whether it has booms. I think the type of crossings the transport person who replied to me was concerned about are ones without lights and booms.
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Re: Which do you prefer? Higher frequency or faster trains?

Postby molybtek » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:41 am

tonyp wrote:I went across Douglas Park the other day but forgot to notice whether it has booms. I think the type of crossings the transport person who replied to me was concerned about are ones without lights and booms.


According to streetview taken in March 2014, there's lights and booms at Douglas Park
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