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NSW On Demand Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Linto63 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:08 am

Narrabeen to Palm Beach service connecting with the B-Line to be operated by Keolis Downer from 26 November. https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/w ... nd-service
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:41 am

Thanks Linto63.
All the details on the 8 trial areas are there as well.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:29 am

The lack of information regarding areas of operation on some of the services is disappointing.

Also, despite assurances to me by Tf NSW, no information about accessibility at all.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:02 pm

Tony,The one known registered bus thus far-the Hino Poncho for Punchbowl-is a fully low floor mini bus.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby boronia » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:08 pm

There has been mention, with photos, of Mercedes van type buses (Sprinters?) with another operator. Not sure if these have been registered yet, but I guess they would have to comply with DDA to get accreditation?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:26 am

burrumbus wrote:Tony,The one known registered bus thus far-the Hino Poncho for Punchbowl-is a fully low floor mini bus.


And exactly where does the non-gunsel punter who needs an accessible service find the information?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:27 am

boronia wrote:There has been mention, with photos, of Mercedes van type buses (Sprinters?) with another operator. Not sure if these have been registered yet, but I guess they would have to comply with DDA to get accreditation?


And exactly where does the non-gunsel punter who needs an accessible service find the information?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby boronia » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:35 am

I'm sure it is ready to be rolled out in time for the next political distraction. :lol:
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Linto63 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:45 am

So while some of the services will be operated by existing operators Interline and Transdev, don't think Keolis Downer have a Sydney presence. Maybe they will bring down some MAN 11.220 / Ansairs from Newcastle? :lol: IIRC these briefly operated Northern Beaches services out of Mona Vale depot in the 90s but were deemed unsuitable and sold off to Queensland.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby boronia » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:31 am

From the information that has been leaked so far, these services will (initially, at least) be using small capacity mini-buses rather than short big buses.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Liamena » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:43 pm

it's hard to see how a service ending at 5 PM on sunday really is. Anyone with a retail job like a carless teenager or student would not be able to use it,
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby crimsontide » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:41 pm

Liamena wrote:it's hard to see how a service ending at 5 PM on sunday really is. Anyone with a retail job like a carless teenager or student would not be able to use it,


Some existing Route services have that already (or worse).
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:54 pm

The accredited operator for the Northern Beaches services should be Australian Transit Enterprises Pty.Ltd which is a Keolis Downer company.Acc number is 42956 issued on 3/10/17.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby jake_s_258 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:01 pm

Looking at the Shire area
https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/ways-to-get-around/on-demand-public-transport/sutherland-shire-on-demand-service

It seems near certain that these on-demand buses will eventually see the axing of:
    Jannali West area: 967 and 968 west of Jannali station
    Caringbah area: 977, 978, 988
    Gymea area: 973, 974, 975, 976 (and possibly the 993 between Miranda and Sutherland)
    Sylvania area: 972, 986 (wouldn't be surprised if the twice daily 986 went immediately)
If they extended the Sylvania area to include Taren Point, the 478 Taren Pt loop to the retirement village could be axed also.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Swift » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:21 pm

These on command services are all romantic and utopian, but what about visitors to the area who might normally plan to use a scheduled service? Is this effectively for the residents only, locking out visitors?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:22 pm

The patronage on the Transdev South area route services is quite low,rarely exceeding 12 per trip ,barring the 970/971 and school services.Small buses could easily handle the patronage of nearly all services,barring the 970/971 (Hurstville end)and most ,but not all school services.TFNSW have said thus far ,that the existing fixed routes will not be deleted.So to start with the fixed routes and the on demand services will live together.I think the end scenario will depend on the passenger take up of the on demand services.For the on demand services to prosper will require a level of customer service,that frankly isn't there with the current Transdev fixed route services.Also the lack of ticketing integration with Opal is a real negative.That to me ,says the on demand services probably will not have the level of passenger take up in Sutherland Shire to make the services viable.I will look to the trials with much interest,to proove my opinion,one way or the other.
And for Swift the vast majority of Transdev's network there is comprised of low usage regular residents based services.That I suspect is the reason this area was chosen for the trial,because of the low patronage and the short routes in the area.
In my opinion what the area really needs is a reworking of the routes,with small buses to provide more frequent services out of the various rail stations in the area(15-20 minute).And separate a number of school services from route services.The commonplace 30 to 60 minute peak hour frequencies in the area just fail to attract the punters.You can proove that by the massive numbers of cars that surround each rail station in the area by up to one kilometre.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Swift » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:01 pm

It's just a taxi service then, not a proper bus service.
It was explained once at a meeting I attended by an STA depot manager, that smaller buses are just no match for full size buses in durability.
Why had this simple fact disregarded now. Are the mechanical components beefed up in mini buses these days? I seriously doubt that!
This will be futile while they insist on repeating history.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:17 pm

Yes,Swift,these on demand services aren't far short of taxi services,or more frequent community transport services to look at it that way.I do think it's worth the trial to proove demand one way or the other.Passengers expectations of route service has changed greatly in the last 30 years and route service hasn't adjusted to those expectations,because of the Passenger Transport Act and the current contracts from 2007 which has made the system beauractic in the extreme.Especially frequency at high demand periods and real customer service.That's why patronage has dropped away markedly on the old route services,especially in suburban areas over 15kms from the CBD.I'm not sure these trials will proove viable demand as the trials,with the exception of the Transit Systems services from the T'Way into the Wetherill Park industrial area are in areas where there are pre existing services of various frequencies and quality.I would have liked to seen a number of services trialled where there isn't a pre existing service.
As for small buses,quality and durabilty has improved markedly on small buses,since the days of the Mercedes 812/814 "Pie Carts".You can't get 25 years out of these buses.15 years will generally pull them up ,but at purchase prices of 1/3 third to a half of a full size bus,that isn't a concern.Really a 25 year old full size route bus thats been flogged to an inch of its life on track work,is hardly a passenger attractor.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby gld59 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:17 am

And when you include factors other than durability, you'd probably have a strong preference for a shorter lifespan. Even in full size buses, air-con and chair access were normal 15 years ago, but not 25. The smaller the vehicle, the harder it is to make it able to take chairs, so that's one current reason for flushing out the older small buses as quickly as possible.

The next transition will probably be motive power, and *perhaps* after that the need for drivers.

gld

edit: clarification
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby thunderbird » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:03 pm

This exists now

https://www.transdevlink.com.au - still under construction.

There is some interesting notes about the service on Facebook <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FSutherlandShireNews%2Fposts%2F1726168220735914&width=500" width="500" height="771" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>

including an unconfirmed quote that journey times are guaranteed not to exceed 30 minutes.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Transport: Buses » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:30 pm

Posting an image of the Poncho being used for the Punchbowl Bus service since I don't think anyone else has done so on this board yet. Taken from the top deck of a Bustech CDi and apologies for the poor quality, I'm really not a photographer lol.

Kinda irritating that they ditched TfNSW branding and don't allow Opal cards on this service though. Hard to see it becoming a success
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Swift » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:51 pm

It just screams Harry Blundred doesn't it? This is one case where the saying "it won't work in Sydney" rings true.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Punchbowl Tiger Cub » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:31 pm

Actually the initial weeks have been quite encouraging and development plans are afoot to broaden the scope,capacity and coverage of this service.

Yes,it is a trial and will take some time to be fully establish this and other like services across Sydney but the homework was done and money outlayed to kick it off.The different livery and branding is to present to commuters that it is a different type of service to scheduled route services.Go and try it
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:47 pm

Thanks for the post Punchbowl Tiger Cub.What sort of patronage patterns has the service established ??
I imagine much of it is from Bankstown station to the hospital.You could easily do 3-4 return trips per hour on it.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby moa999 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:24 pm

Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Actually the initial weeks have been quite encouraging and development plans are afoot to broaden the scope,capacity and coverage of this service.


Stupid parts about the trial (imho)
- No Opal
- Operator branding (eg. POD - PBC On Demand)
- Separate Apps per Operator

the POD app has only had 10-50 downloads on Android
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... bcondemand

Apple doesn't publish stats
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/pbc-on- ... 98230?mt=8
(I also note the Apple app is published by Dean Fribence of Niftie (who operate a NW-CBD shuttle that I wasn't aware of - http://www.niftiecommute.com)
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