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NSW On Demand Buses

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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:28 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:
Swift wrote:The result the government wants is the result they will get.

Isn't that what we delegate a Government to do?

Simply because they win an elaborate numbers game every few years? I don't think so. There needs to be a big improvement on consultation and accountability whilst they are in term. The current Liberal rulers are not performing well on that test, as usual.
Selling off assets for a song that are not theirs to sell, as a quick and easy way to obtain funds for the short term to make themselves look good and there is not a thing we can do about it and there really is no attractive alternative at the moment.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:39 pm

We may not agree with the decisions they make (and I certainly dont), that does not mean they need to consult on every decision they make. If the majority of people dont like the decisions, they will vote them out at the next election.
And that is nothing new, I was watching a TV show about British Prime Minister Anthony Eden last night. He must have been as unpopular as they come.

And as you say they is no attractive alternative, so what do we do? Just close up the Government?
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:26 am

First day of operation yesterday for CDC's 'Our Bus' On Demand service in the Epping and Carlingford areas.

Two vehicles are seen below at Epping Station at 7pm.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby burrumbus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:15 am

Thanks for the photos Glen.Were they any takers for the services??
Are these services a trial under contract with TFNSW or off CDC'S own? bat.I can't find any info on that.
I've also heard that CDC had plans off their own bat for the Katomba area.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby rogf24 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:43 am

There really needs to be a common Sydney-wide app for booking all these on-demand services. Instead what we have now is one app for each operator or region, it's very fragmented now which does hold back growth. The NSW Government should be in charge of this common app, and while they're at it, Opal integration.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:44 am

burrumbus wrote:Thanks for the photos Glen.Were they any takers for the services??
Are these services a trial under contract with TFNSW or off CDC'S own? bat.I can't find any info on that.
I've also heard that CDC had plans off their own bat for the Katomba area.
They are listed on the TfNSW web site like others.

I didn't see any passengers but I was not there long.

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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Swift » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:07 pm

Are they authorised to sit there? You need to book in advance just to board. Hardly buses at all. It seems to be starting out ad hoc with inadequate information and awareness of how this service works and availability. Fix problems later instead of getting it right from the start. How aware are commuters of this option at present?
Last edited by Swift on Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:09 pm

rogf24 wrote:There really needs to be a common Sydney-wide app for booking all these on-demand services. Instead what we have now is one app for each operator or region, it's very fragmented now which does hold back growth. The NSW Government should be in charge of this common app,

While my first reaction is that this would have been desirable to cut costs, I suspect that it would have added costs to the trials. My assumption is that these apps and the booking, timetabling and dispatch system they tie into probably haven't been written from scratch but rather they have been acquired from software suppliers and merely customised for each operators needs. I leave it for others to do the detective work to identify the suppliers but obviously one of them is Bridj which might have been used by the other participants if not for their acquisition by Transit Systems. A common app to book the various trials would have required work in some form to integrate the various systems. Given the small percentage of people who need the ability to book multiple schemes I am not convinced that it would be worth the effort at the trial stage. If the web versions of these sites can accomodate mobile devices without loss of functionality perhaps even less reason. I would expect a common app when these services beome integral to the transport system.

While it is probably desireable not to snuff out competitive advantage or increase integration costs by not dictating that every operator use common software or interfaces for the trial I am concerned that having to acquire such software would have been a barrier to entry, The fact that all operators are bus operators and do not include any existing transport on demand operators suggests to me that the process for the selection of participants in the trial was flawed.

and while they're at it, Opal integration.

That will probably come too, eventually, Given that the difficulties in reconciling Opal with advance payment it may just have to wait until Opal transitions from a stored value card to an account based system.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby boronia » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:11 pm

Is that a dedicated bus stop for them, or are they sharing with regular route services?

And would they be waiting for pre-booked passengers, or do they tout for business there?
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Swift » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:16 pm

Do people want to travel in these trucks, especially once the new smell wears off?
They may as well use Uber for not much more and faster travel in more comfort.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:34 pm

Swift wrote:Are they authorised to sit there? You need to book in advance just to board. Hardly buses at all.
Whether they are legally buses or not they shouldn't be allowed to wait at stops where there is high probability they could impede real buses. if they are going to wait they need dedicated parking areas. Is that a problem at that location? Is there a taxi rank around there?
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Bjwh86 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:40 pm

I hate the prebooked idea from locations like this, they should be trying to get customers and once they have enough then depart.

As there are 2 vans sitting there, the second one could be used if there is a pre booked customer from a pick up location elsewhere.


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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:55 pm

Glen wrote:
burrumbus wrote:Thanks for the photos Glen.Were they any takers for the services??
Are these services a trial under contract with TFNSW or off CDC'S own? bat.I can't find any info on that.
I've also heard that CDC had plans off their own bat for the Katomba area.
They are listed on the TfNSW web site like others.


see https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/w ... nd-service
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:58 pm

Another one I dont remember having seen before and supposed to be starting in early 2018 for Macquarie Park operated by Keolia Downer - is there first appearance in Sydney?
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:01 pm

Swift wrote:Do people want to travel in these trucks, especially once the new smell wears off?

Can the ride comfort be any worse than say a Custom Coach bodied gassie? I'd assume they would be kept cleaner as well if only because spills and odours would be more rapidly brought to the driver's attention. Whether they would be any more likely to to clean the vehicle or take it out of service I don't know, Personally, I'm can do without new car smell, the volatile organic compounds they are composed of are suspected of serious health effects.
They may as well use Uber for not much more and faster travel in more comfort.

The trial fares are as low as $2.60 and I think the highest is $5,60 whereas Uber is a minimum of $9 excluding taxis. At the moment these look to be largely functioning as taxis due to low demand so they are quite a bargain.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm

Concerning fares I noticed that in the Ipart regional and rural submission which came out yesterday, they include a submission concerning On Demand bus fares for such country routes but there does not appear anything as yet on such routes in the Opal area..
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:06 pm

Passenger 57 wrote:
Swift wrote:Do people want to travel in these trucks, especially once the new smell wears off?

Can the ride comfort be any worse than say a Custom Coach bodied gassie? I'd assume they would be kept cleaner as well if only because spills and odours would be more rapidly brought to the driver's attention. Whether they would be any more likely to to clean the vehicle or take it out of service I don't know, Personally, I'm can do without new car smell, the volatile organic compounds they are composed of are suspected of serious health effects.
They may as well use Uber for not much more and faster travel in more comfort.

The trial fares are as low as $2.60 and I think the highest is $5,60 whereas Uber is a minimum of $9 excluding taxis. At the moment these look to be largely functioning as taxis due to low demand so they are quite a bargain.
Regarding questions about can they sit there, bear in mind this was only the first day so maybe they were waiting for someone who had pre booked, or were just getting used to things, I don't know.

I suppose in the mean time its not a bad place to advertise their presence anyway.

To answer the question about Keolis Downer, they already run the Northern Beaches too.

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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:10 pm

Also in terms of the apps, I presume part of the trial is to review different apps that the Operators have sourced.



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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby boronia » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:56 pm

Passenger 57 wrote:
Swift wrote:Are they authorised to sit there? You need to book in advance just to board. Hardly buses at all.
Whether they are legally buses or not they shouldn't be allowed to wait at stops where there is high probability they could impede real buses. if they are going to wait they need dedicated parking areas. Is that a problem at that location? Is there a taxi rank around there?

They are carrying passengers "for hire and reward", so would have to be legally "buses". Maybe they should be on m/o or TV plates? As that station would be part of their "route" they would be legally entitled to park there and wait.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:04 pm

boronia wrote:They are carrying passengers "for hire and reward", so would have to be legally "buses". Maybe they should be on m/o or TV plates? As that station would be part of their "route" they would be legally entitled to park there and wait.
I thought they came under Point to Point legislation.



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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby burrumbus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:25 pm

Glen wrote:
boronia wrote:They are carrying passengers "for hire and reward", so would have to be legally "buses". Maybe they should be on m/o or TV plates? As that station would be part of their "route" they would be legally entitled to park there and wait.
I thought they came under Point to Point legislation.



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Correct Glen.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:37 pm

boronia wrote:They are carrying passengers "for hire and reward", so would have to be legally "buses".
By that definition so are taxis
.
Maybe they should be on m/o or TV plates?
The majority(?) of STA buses no longer have MO plates (much to my disappointment). How do parking officers determine whether a bus not carrying STA, MO, or MOO plates is allowed to park in a bus zone?

As that station would be part of their "route" they would be legally entitled to park there and wait.
There is no defined route for many of these trials. Some don't even include stations as hubs.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:21 pm

I understand the Hillsbus trial is "fixed route" in the AM peak and "hub to door" in the PM peak.

Epping Station is the only defined hub for that area.

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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby moa999 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:48 pm

Integrating OpalPay would be relatively easy. Vehicles would just need a mobile terminal programmed to accept OpalPay.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Stu » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:50 pm

rogf24 wrote:There really needs to be a common Sydney-wide app for booking all these on-demand services. Instead what we have now is one app for each operator or region, it's very fragmented now which does hold back growth. The NSW Government should be in charge of this common app, and while they're at it, Opal integration.


I thought that the Future Transport Summit would have been able to kickstart some ideas and atleast during 2017 when Future Transport were bragging how things were progressing as a whole, these basic elements could have been addressed long before the first On-Demand service commenced. Guvmint officials and techno gurus all love to use words like; integration, seamless, instant, easy etc etc. The people involved in the Future Summot are too focused on the year 2056 and with so many futuristic, fanciful and technologically advanced ideas, are either stumped or simply forget to think of simple ideas that are needed today.
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