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NSW On Demand Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby hornetfig » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:22 pm

The choice of Rose Bay as a hub is due to persistent community agitation since all cross country services - 321/322/365/366 - that connected Bondi Beach to Rose Bay and Edgecliff were deleted in 2002.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:30 pm

Well, then they should have made Bondi Beach a hub as well or introduced more flexible pick up/set down provisions. At least with Opal there is no longer a fare penalty for traveling via a hub or two just the time penalty unfortunately further exacerbated by the reduction in off-peak service frequencies of the remaining services post 2002. It can be faster to walk.

Can you remind me about the paths of those old routes? There was also the peak hour 375 which was a service from East Bondi Beach to the city via O'Sullivan Rd and winding through Bellevue Hill that was I think retired earlier.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby hornetfig » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:44 pm

Post-ESR (really post-1992 changes):
321 - Monday-Saturday service Bondi Beach south terminus to Bondi Junction via North Bondi, Rose Bay Old South Head Road and New South Head Road (via Dover Road), Rose Bay Wharf, Bellevue Hill
322 - Sunday service Bondi Beach south terminus to Vaucluse via North Bondi, Rose Bay Old South Head Road and New South Head Road (via Dover Road WB but Wilberforce Ave EB [this route was ancient...])
365 - Daytime service Bondi Beach south terminus to Edgecliff Station via Bellevue Hill, Double Bay
366 - Nightime service Bondi Beach south terminus to Edgecliff Station via Bellevue Hill, Double Bay but a different route through Bellevue Hill
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:38 am

hornetfig wrote:Post-ESR (really post-1992 changes):
321 - Monday-Saturday service Bondi Beach south terminus to Bondi Junction via North Bondi, Rose Bay Old South Head Road and New South Head Road (via Dover Road), Rose Bay Wharf, Bellevue Hill
322 - Sunday service Bondi Beach south terminus to Vaucluse via North Bondi, Rose Bay Old South Head Road and New South Head Road (via Dover Road WB but Wilberforce Ave EB [this route was ancient...])
365 - Daytime service Bondi Beach south terminus to Edgecliff Station via Bellevue Hill, Double Bay
366 - Nightime service Bondi Beach south terminus to Edgecliff Station via Bellevue Hill, Double Bay but a different route through Bellevue Hill

Thanks, your memory is much clearer than mine on these routes. The 321 must have been the evolution of the earlier 359 (Rose Bay to Pagewood via Bellevue Hill and Bondi Junction) service. Apart from the Beaches (?) Explorer tourist service I recall only one other service operating via Rose Bay wharf for a period. Once that service or its successor was merged with the 365 scheduled route bus operations would have been removed from the small remaining section of O'Sullivan Rd still having a service, albeit a more frequent one. This would also have contributed to better on-time running by eliminating sections providing delays in particular operations through a block containing neighbourhood shops with cars parked in the stops as well as being double parked.

The different route via Bellevue Hill you refer to would have been the been the Manning Rd to Victoria Rd route fragment currently served via the 327 and earlier via the 330. I presume the 366 must have been intended to replace the 330 at night and in part make up for the deletion of the 375. The end of the 366 would have removed bus operations from the Drumalbyn Rd to Bellevue Hill section of Victoria Rd formerly served by the peak only 375.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby jpp42 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:01 pm

Passenger 57 wrote: Apart from the Beaches (?) Explorer tourist service I recall only one other service operating via Rose Bay wharf for a period.


FWIW, that service was called the "Bondi Explorer" when I first came to Sydney in 2006. It is still in operation by the current private operator (Explorer Bus Tours) under that name, even despite Explorer Bus Tours having different franchise affiliations (previously City Sightseeing, now Big Bus Tours). One difference was that the STA incarnation used dedicated blue-liveried buses for the Bondi tour and red for the city tour, where as now Explorer Tours / Big Bus Sydney uses any of their maroon buses for both routes.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby boronia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:58 pm

Passenger 57 wrote:Well, then they should have made Bondi Beach a hub as well or introduced more flexible pick up/set down provisions. At least with Opal there is no longer a fare penalty for traveling via a hub or two just the time penalty unfortunately further exacerbated by the reduction in off-peak service frequencies of the remaining services post 2002. It can be faster to walk.

Can you remind me about the paths of those old routes? There was also the peak hour 375 which was a service from East Bondi Beach to the city via O'Sullivan Rd and winding through Bellevue Hill that was I think retired earlier.

The 375 was a pre-ESR peak hour service that terminated at West Bondi (Curlewis/OSH Rd), with a different route through Bellevue Hill
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:42 pm

jpp42 wrote: One difference was that the STA incarnation used dedicated blue-liveried buses for the Bondi tour and red for the city tour, where as now Explorer Tours / Big Bus Sydney uses any of their maroon buses for both routes.

I see there have also been route and stop changes. The current tour has half as many stops as the STA version and no longer diverts via Rose Bay wharf. Coaches and minibuses with Chinese tourists are now the only frequent tourist services to the wharf
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:21 pm

Looks like CDC Hillsbus has created their own on demand service called OurBus.

From CDC NSW's Facebook post.
https://www.facebook.com/CDCNSW/posts/348940545587496
"The OurBus service will commence on Tuesday 30 of January, 2018.

OurBus is you’re new on demand service in the Epping, North Rocks and Carlingford area. You can book an OurBus service to pick you up from a convenient location near your home, to take you to a local train or bus interchange, office or shopping centre.

A new OurBus website and app are now live, with the fare costing $5, paid in advance by credit card."


If the trial goes well I hope they later expand it to their Hunter Valley operations. Especially in area's that don't get frequent or little bus services.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby LB608 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:32 pm

Blue Ribbon Coaches did that in Maitland 20 years ago,after 2 weeks it cessed after only carrying 4 passengers
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Glen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:37 am

LB608 wrote:Blue Ribbon Coaches did that in Maitland 20 years ago,after 2 weeks it cessed after only carrying 4 passengers

Indeed, although the technology has developed much since then.
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Glen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:05 am

ScaniaGrenda wrote:Looks like CDC Hillsbus has created their own on demand service called OurBus.

"The OurBus service will commence on Tuesday 30 of January, 2018.

OurBus is you’re new on demand service in the Epping, North Rocks and Carlingford area. You can book an OurBus service to pick you up from a convenient location near your home, to take you to a local train or bus interchange, office or shopping centre.

A new OurBus website and app are now live, with the fare costing $5, paid in advance by credit card."

Web site here: cdcourbus.com.au

The service operates in weekday peak hour only in four zones, two focussed on Epping Station, one focussed solely on Oakes Rd M2 bus stop and the other focussed on Oakes Rd M2 bus stop / Carlingford Station.
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NSW On Demand Transport Discussion

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:08 am

Rather then clogging up the private observations thread with discussion of On Demand Transport. I thought I'd take the liberty to create a discussion myself to cater to all things to do with On Demand Transport. It seems 2018 and beyond will be the year where on Demand Transport becomes bigger and bigger.

To start off the thread CDC Hillsbus recently announced their own On Demand service called "Ourbus" which will begin on the 30th of January 2018 and will service the Epping, North Rocks and Carlingford areas, you'll be able to book a bus(?) from a location convenient to you to take you to places like your workplace, home, train stations or shopping centre for example. The website for OurBus is now live and and fares will cost $5 and are payable in advance by credit card.

While there's no further information yet on future plans for CDC's OurBus, I believe if all goes well with it they'll hopefully look at expanding it to their other operations like Hunter Valley Buses for example. Yes many moons ago Blue Ribbon had it's own on demand service but usage was low and the shuttle was scrapped. Now with a lot more developed areas and houses being built by the day that aren't frequently served by buses every hour or so, I'm hoping it would work well in these kinds of area's as well.

Anyway CDC's Website for their On Demand service can be found below.

http://www.cdcourbus.com.au/
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Swift » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:06 pm

LB608 wrote:Blue Ribbon Coaches did that in Maitland 20 years ago,after 2 weeks it cessed after only carrying 4 passengers

One crucial difference now that may make it work. The retarded phone (turning us into them.)
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Re: Private Observations - January 2018 to June 2018

Postby Glen » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:07 pm

LB608 wrote:Blue Ribbon Coaches did that in Maitland 20 years ago,after 2 weeks it cessed after only carrying 4 passengers

By the way, I think you'll find it ran a lot longer than two weeks!
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Re: NSW On Demand Transport Discussion

Postby Passenger 57 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:56 pm

ScaniaGrenda wrote:CDC Hillsbus recently announced their own On Demand service called "Ourbus" which will begin on the 30th of January 2018 and will service the Epping, North Rocks and Carlingford areas

As you probably have already worked out by now by reading the previous postings to your relocated post this is just the one of the on demand trials going live this round. It seems the least compelling offering of the various trials to date. Peak only, Fixed route 5:30am - 9am. Hub to door 5pm - 8pm. $5 flat fare.

While there's no further information yet on future plans for CDC's OurBus, I believe if all goes well with it they'll hopefully look at expanding it to their other operations like Hunter Valley Buses for example.

Unless the service turns out to be extremely profitable it will depend on a government contract. I assume if these trials do go well, low patronage bus services will be replaced by on demand services.

I find on-demand is somewhat of a misnomer. Unless one can book sufficiently in advance there may not be a service available for the period when one is desired. Bookable, reservable or even negotiable bus services are more apt though less catchy names. One can't even get on one of these services even if one pulls up right in front of you unless there is sufficient time to book it before it is next scheduled to depart and sufficient remaining schedule head room. I have my doubts that these are superior to say an hourly route service with a usually mostly empty bus. Scheduled route service needs a sexy name to compete.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Bjwh86 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:11 am

So the fare is a flat rate of $5 paid by credit card before pick up?


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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:21 am

Do humans want to rely on a credit card to get the bus?
What if they have a last minute change of plans?
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:17 am

Swift wrote:Do humans want to rely on a credit card to get the bus?
What if they have a last minute change of plans?

Just ask any Uber user!
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Glen » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:20 am

Bjwh86 wrote:So the fare is a flat rate of $5 paid by credit card before pick up?

I'd say yes.

Details here: http://www.cdcourbus.com.au/faq/
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Re: NSW On Demand Transport Discussion

Postby Glen » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:21 am

Passenger 57 wrote:I find on-demand is somewhat of a misnomer. Unless one can book sufficiently in advance there may not be a service available for the period when one is desired. Bookable, reservable or even negotiable bus services are more apt though less catchy names. One can't even get on one of these services even if one pulls up right in front of you unless there is sufficient time to book it before it is next scheduled to depart and sufficient remaining schedule head room. I have my doubts that these are superior to say an hourly route service with a usually mostly empty bus. Scheduled route service needs a sexy name to compete.

Think of it like a large Uber, but more restricted in area served.
Last edited by Glen on Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:31 am

More like Uberpool with a minibus.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby mubd » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:55 pm

It's a bit disappointing how little marketing is going on for these buses. It just seems like a program destined to fail, even though it's clearly a good idea.
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:02 pm

Maybe, but maybe they'll claim its a success regardless of how flimsy the evidence is for that so they can go ahead and eliminate low patronage routes if there is a cost savings to be had. The trials seem too varied to me to come to conclusive results. What works in some areas may not work in others. No doubt the limited marketing will effect the results but that may not be a problem if that effect is uniform across demographics or this is some valid way to statistically correct for that. Significant demand would overwhelm the limited resources and diminish the customer experience. The lack of fare integration will skew the results too and for most trials so would the lack of cash payment and telephone booking. Unless demand has risen significantly since I last talked to the drivers, I suspect consumers of the service are very satisified as it seems to work largely as a cheap taxi (albeit one that only travels to or from a hub in my area).
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:19 pm

The result the govvament wants is the result they will get.
Australia is a fool's democracy these days.
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Re: NSW On Demand Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:22 pm

Swift wrote:The result the government wants is the result they will get.

Isn't that what we delegate a Government to do?
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