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NSW On Demand Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:31 pm

Any passengers seen on them yet Lourie ?
Nice livery too.Interesting despite being funded by TFNSW all individual liveries seen thus far.Branding new and different services is very important.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Twice I saw it today there was someone sitting next to the driver but it could have been another driver. Hard to see whether there was anyone else on board.
One interesting thing is that I live outside the areas shown on the maps although I live in Miranda but twice today I saw one (different units) in our street. So I wonder how flexible the boundaries are.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby thunderbird » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:34 pm

The boundaries are extremely inflexible when using the app to make a booking (my street is out of the zone but the cross street is not). Perhaps at driver discretion or by calling Transdev direct exceptions can be made.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:42 pm

IMG_20171122_211051.jpg
Ride-Plus Mercedes Sprinter CN43MI
IMG_20171122_211051.jpg (25.89 KiB) Viewed 3644 times

IMG_20171122_212032.jpg
Interior of Ride-Plus CN43MI
IMG_20171122_212032.jpg (24.25 KiB) Viewed 3644 times

According to one of the drivers there are currently 4 vehicles servicing the ES trial area. Contrary to the FAQ, he stated that it was possible to book vehicles with immediate dispatch if they were available. For his shift, loads were typically a single passenger with trips from Bondi Junction hub being the main driver of trips.

Apart from photographing CN43MI while the driver was on a break. CN45MI arrived and picked up a couple of passengers from the Rose Bay hub coincidentally meeting the Ferry. That was the 2nd pickup of the day for that driver's shift.

As you might have guessed the routes are scheduled by software.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Glen » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:35 pm

Daniel wrote:Separately, Transit Systems 'Indi-Link' has recieved 5x Iveco Daily minibuses with Bridj signwriting and on m/o plates. The service is due to start on 4 December. See: https://www.transitsystems.com.au/sydne ... -australia

Interesting line in that article
“Bridj will help remove large empty buses from our suburban streets, replaced instead with ‘right-sized’ services that enhance value for money while delivering better travel outcomes for everyone in the catchment,” he said.

Sounds a bit American to me.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Swift » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Glen wrote:Sounds a bit American to me.

Sounds intensely Sydney to me. Then again Sydney IS America -mostly the unsavoury bits. Will the snob passengers that are currently used to our bus services, want tobe seen getting in and out of a van with all these labels on them?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby moa999 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:06 pm

enhance value for money while delivering better travel outcomes for everyone in the catchment

Not for the consumer

More expensive fares
No transfer benefits
No Opal

Given most of these services seem to be to deliver people to transport hubs, surely that should have been part of the trial thinking.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:38 pm

Opal would not necessarily be a simple issue as there are no fixed stops so it may not be worth doing for a trial which may not proceed.

Once they are permanent I would like to think that the necessary Opal procedures are developed.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby jake_s_258 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:01 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Opal would not necessarily be a simple issue as there are no fixed stops so it may not be worth doing for a trial which may not proceed.

Once they are permanent I would like to think that the necessary Opal procedures are developed.


They're a flat fare, so assuming it was the same under Opal you would just charge one fare regardless of location when you tap on. The zones in the Shire for example would likely be within 3km from one side to the other in most parts.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:01 pm

Very true but this would still require software changes as currently it is based on fixed stops.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:41 pm

The fact that the different areas charge different fares and that some distance would exceed 3km such as Miranda to Burraneer add at least 2 factors which are different from the current Opal processes.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:17 pm

Its......just......a.......TRIAL. Unless the lack of Opal acceptance and its associated trip data a would seriously skew the trial results it is not worth expending the capital costs to install the readers even if significant programming is not required, However, maybe some form of rebate should be offered to those that transfer to an Opal service and transfer data could be collected that way. Things that put people off from trying the service are concerning in as far as that they may not be able to correct for them with qualitative polling and statistical information. The lack of concession fares and operating hours strike me as the most significant. The fact that some of the trials require you to make 2 bookings and therefore pay a double (premium) fare strikes me as unnecessarily stupid. If these bookings were allowed services could still travel to and from hubs and passengers could be asked to transfer. Another thing that strikes me as stupid is the availability of cash fares on some services. Is that a political decision? I can't imagine TfNSW would be desirous of future cash operation

Anyway, its early days yet. It will be interesting to see how well the services operate when demand ramps up. I could imagine it being easily overwhelmed at times.

Another thing I find curious about these trial is that none of the taxi operators are having a go. Given their declining market share I would have thought that operating what is essentially a share taxi service would be something they would be keen on trialing. The are currently in the unique position that they can offer services that be hailed. Perhaps the tender specifications were biased to bus operators.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby burrumbus » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:00 pm

Everything is a trial to see what works and what doesn't.Hence the diversity in different services,buses,payment methods and booking methods.TFNSW are experimenting with this concept to work out a viable path forward.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:27 pm

I don't think TfNSW has any clue about what they want - other than grabbing headlines or crushing unions. It's hardly the scientific method to have so many different variables. I assume we'll see Uber pool before TfNSW pull their finger out. It's not rocket science: what we'd all like is taxis approaching the price of buses. Some compromises obviously have to take place for that. Sharing is one of them. Share taxis work well in other jurisdictions. Personally, I discourage people who live near frequent scheduled services from being able to book them unless they have mobility issues.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Frosty » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:19 pm

I've heard Uber Pool has it's issues with drivers complaining about it's rates, customers often not realising the difference between Pool & regular UberX and trip times due to diversions that need to be made. There's even Uber pool express which seems awfully familiar to something called a route bus.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/10/uber-express-pool/
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby BroadGauge » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:12 pm

Frosty wrote:I've heard Uber Pool has it's issues with drivers complaining about it's rates

The drivers don't like UberPOOL because they get paid the same already low distance/time rates that they would make for an UberX trip, even though Uber brings in substantially more income from putting multiple riders into one car. It's only about 20% cheaper than UberX.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby mandonov » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:17 pm

I'm actually surprised that Uber hasn't weasled their way into this trial. In North America they're actually partnering with small cities to take over public transport to a large degree: https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/1/12735 ... axi-system
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:04 am

Yesterday I saw three boys no older 12 getting on one of the on demand buses at Caringbah. And as I am typing this, there is one in our retirement village in Miranda.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby thunderbird » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:09 am

I saw the on demand bus operating past Shelley beach in South Cronulla yesterday. Perhaps the zones are a little bit flexible? I couldn’t see through the tinted windows if Pax were on board or not.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Glen » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:22 am

Has anybody tried out any of the On Demand services yet?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:08 pm

No, but I have looked inside and asked the drivers a few questions. Happy to pass any questions you may have to any drivers I encounter from the ES Ride-Plus trial, According to the afternoon shift, demand is pretty low at the moment and the 15 min trip limits the number of pax on any run, Trips from the Rose Bay ferry hub are currently the most popular in the afternoon which suggests to me that price is not a factor for many of the trial users.
If you want to try it get in before demand picks up, while it is virtually operating as a cheap taxi service albeit not a point to point one.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:43 pm

What is the 15 minute trip limit you are referring to?
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Glen » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:46 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:What is the 15 minute trip limit you are referring to?
From:
https://www.ride-plus.com.au/faq?gclid= ... fkEALw_wcB

What is the maximum journey travel time?
Our On Demand customer promise is for you not to spend more than 15 minutes in our shuttle between being picked up and dropped off at your requested destination.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Mr OC Benz » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:43 pm

I used it this afternoon to get from Bondi to Rose Bay. There seems to always be jobs for the drivers, albeit never a full load. When I got to Rose Bay, there were three there and two of them including the one I was just on left with passengers from the ferry. I then saw two leaving Edgecliff a couple of hours later.
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Re: Sydney commuters get chance to trial on-demand buses

Postby Passenger 57 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:13 pm

Rose Bay is a preferred layover point for some of the drivers simply because it is quite a pleasant spot. They are free to do layovers whereever they like as the scheduling software doesn't pick locations for that. I think there could be better vehicle placement for layover than having all vehicles at single non central point at the same time. I have my doubts about the inclusion of Rose Bay as a hub. The majority of people travelling to Rose Bay could have travelled to one of the other hubs and all of the destination served by the ferry at Rose Bay are served by other typically higher frequency modes. The only non-aesthetic advantage of Rose Bay is that the ferry can allow for a quicker and/or more direct trip albeit at additional cost. As a transport hub it's certainly much more poorly served by feeder bus routes than the other 2 hubs. Paradoxically, what makes it such a poor transport "hub" probably it ideal for inclusion in a transport on demand trial. I question the lack of inclusion of Bondi Beach in the trial while it is not a transport hub it is certainly is a transport hot spot.
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