New Double Deckers.

[Campbelltown busboy]

I just got this on my Facebook news feed
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslo ... 876a8e3a5e

Double decker buses ease congestion along major western arterials
Melissa Yeo, Parramatta Advertiser
July 12, 2017 10:52am
BUILDING  upwards is said to solve our residential woes, so it was only time before we saw it on our roads.

Double-decker buses will soon be spotted along the popular M92 and T80 bus routes, connecting commuters from Parramatta via Auburn to Sutherland and to Liverpool.


Passengers on the T80 and M92 lines will have more room to move with new double-decker buses.
Apart from offering a little taste of London, the capacity of the buses will increase – 100 passengers across both decks as opposed to just 65 in the single.

The new fleet of up to 50 double-deckers will replace the “bendy buses” and is hoped to ease congestion along some of the west’s busiest arterials.


New bigger buses will soon be spotted along the T-way.
“The new double-decker buses will provide increased capacity and improved efficiency to current bus services while helping to improve local traffic conditions,” Transport for NSW innovation, research and reform acting executive director Dimi Rigas said.

Six will be introduced on the T80 line – taking passengers from Parramatta along the T-way through Merrylands and Wetherill Park to Liverpool, and another six on the M92 route from Parramatta, past Rosehill and Bankstown and on to Sutherland.


A new fleet of 50 double deck buses will be introduced across Parramatta and the North Shore.
Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the Government would spend $1.5 billion to purchase more than 170 buses under this year’s NSW budget and that the futuristic designs had already been introduced on the northern beaches.

The west could see them as soon as next month.

[Fleet Lists]

I was told some weeks ago that they could be on the M92 as early as next week when school resumes.

The new fleet of up to 50 double-deckers will replace the “bendy buses” and is hoped to ease congestion along some of the west’s busiest arterials.

They certainly wont be replacing bendy buses on the T80 and M92 as there are no bendy buses operating on those routes.

[boronia]

the futuristic designs had already been introduced on the northern beaches.

Really??

[tonyp]

It's the same sort of dishonest spin that they use for the tram projects. Firstly they downplay the capacity of the single deckers to cast the trams, now double deckers, in a better light, then they say that deckers are a capacity improvement on artics.

A 12 metre single decker will carry 80 to 90 if allowed in the jurîsdiction, while the artics here are allowed 110, 10 more passengers than these deckers. If a private company made such claims for its products they'd be in trouble with Fair Trading.

I presume those routes don't have high turnover along the way or they'd be in trouble with dwell time.

The one truth they could have told is that there will be more SEATS.

[Tim Williams]

They certainly should have made a big noise about the seated capacity of these new buses compared to artics or 12mtr rigids - you will never get people out of cars unless they have a very good chance of gaining a seat!

[Frosty]

I read on the Bustech website that the Bustech CDi had a configurable capacity of 96 seated & 20 standing. I noticed with Surfside Buslines they have theirs configured with 96 seated & 20 standing. I wonder what's the capacity of the Hillsbus & Forest DDs.

Maybe replacing the existing bendy buses at Forest with more DDs and more Northern Beaches & maybe Eastern Valley Way/ Epping Rd. I must wonder how easy would be to retrofit those 1.5 door Volvo CB60 bendies with a proper full size rear door.

I read in London they found on a certain bus route operated by a DD was reported serve level of overcrowding but the Oyster data didn't match they found people didn't move to the upper deck. I suspect could be they were not bothered, didn't know if there were seats or couldn't get up in the first place due to overcrowding.

[Stonesourscotty]

London buses now tell you how many empty seats are upstairs so i find that hard to believe.

[Frosty]

It was a few years back then idea of having a monitor displaying seats on the upper deck came about.

[boronia]

Sydney's Atlanteans had this feature back in the 1970s.

It was a mechanical counter, so I don't know how accurate or reliable it was.

I am sure the CDi has this feature too.

[tonyp]

Sydney's Atlanteans had this feature back in the 1970s.

It was a mechanical counter, so I don't know how accurate or reliable it was.

I am sure the CDi has this feature too.

One of the steps on the stairs was a treadle that operated the counter. You could feel and hear it click as you went up and down the stairs. If you were an anarchist I guess you could grab the handrails and swing yourself over that step.

[gilberations]

The Busways CDI has the counter

[gilberations]

Would it not make more sense to put the bendys on the T-Way routes?

[tonyp]

Would it not make more sense to put the bendys on the T-Way routes?

The benefit of using deckers has been covered in two threads now - seats! They should save the (three-door) artics for services like Bondi Beach and the 400. The Gong shuttle sure could use them too. Some of these services like Bondi Beach should be run exclusively by artics.

[gilberations]

Would it not make more sense to put the bendys on the T-Way routes?

The benefit of using deckers has been covered in two threads now - seats! They should save the (three-door) artics for services like Bondi Beach and the 400. The Gong shuttle sure could use them too. Some of these services like Bondi Beach should be run exclusively by artics.

Bondi Beach needs the heavy rail expansion

[swtt]

Bondi Beach needs the heavy rail expansion

Tell that to the latte sipping, smashed avo eating locals who have connections to high places. The next government announcement will be a tunnel linking Bondi Beach and Manly with a $15 toll to enable them to hop over to the Northern Beaches to their next cafe stop/meeting.

[tonyp]

Bondi Beach needs the heavy rail expansion

That's what I think too but it's been knocked out by two studies on economic grounds and the tram is not physically possible today, so that leaves buses. Sometime in the not-too-distant future there will be a day of reckoning on which Sydney's buses will actually have to stop being a boutique limo service and pull their weight.

[tonyp]

Tell that to the latte sipping, smashed avo eating locals who have connections to high places. The next government announcement will be a tunnel linking Bondi Beach and Manly with a $15 toll to enable them to hop over to the Northern Beaches to their next cafe stop/meeting.

Manly ferry "all stops" service via Bondi Beach interchange (offshore), commuters to be rowed out to ferry by surfboat.

[simonl]

Would it not make more sense to put the bendys on the T-Way routes?

T80 is a tway route!

M92 is a strange one. Whenever I've been on it, I've never thought it was under served. Perhaps it is for other parts of the route, but even so, what about upgrading the frequency first?

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Tapatalk 2

[OLYMPIAN]

Would it not make more sense to put the bendys on the T-Way routes?

T80 is a tway route!

M92 is a strange one. Whenever I've been on it, I've never thought it was under served. Perhaps it is for other parts of the route, but even so, what about upgrading the frequency first?

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Tapatalk 2

Is for school and uni peak

[Jurassic_Joke]

M92 is always running late during peak hours because of congested roads. Not uncommon to see lateness of +-10 mins. Deckers with slower on/offloading wouldnt really help much.

T80 is , in my opinion, where the bendy buses would be useful. As only buses use the T-way, this would negate the disadvantage of Bendies clogging up congestion in busy streets because of the long length. Then its a busy route, so it would benefit from lower dwell times at stops.

[Transport: Buses]

The T80 is much more suited to bendy buses, in my opinion. Maybe even trial some bi-articulated buses or upgrade it to a true BRT system.

Double deckers aren't really appropriate for the M92 either, considering that it stops frequently with close proximity between stops. A better idea would be to increase the amount of deckers in use on the Northwest T-Way, as well as routes from the Hills district, Northern beaches and Forest Coach Lines services to the city.

[simonl]

M92 is always running late during peak hours because of congested roads. Not uncommon to see lateness of +-10 mins. Deckers with slower on/offloading wouldnt really help much.

All buses in Sydney are always running late. On time running is not a priority it seems. Not just congested roads when 10% or so of STA buses start their trip 5+ minutes late, also insufficient margins are allowed between trips.

[tonyp]

The T80 is much more suited to bendy buses, in my opinion. Maybe even trial some bi-articulated buses or upgrade it to a true BRT system.

Double deckers aren't really appropriate for the M92 either, considering that it stops frequently with close proximity between stops. A better idea would be to increase the amount of deckers in use on the Northwest T-Way, as well as routes from the Hills district, Northern beaches and Forest Coach Lines services to the city.

You won't see bi-articulated buses on Australian roads due to the axle load issue apparently. They're only being considered for the Brisbane busways on the basis that they stay on the busways and don't venture onto public roads. However, if the SA police could find a way to have the O Bahn classified as a "public road" so that they could lay speed traps for bus drivers, I'm sure the road agencies could find a way to classify busways as public roads just in order to take some spiteful action against attempts at public transport innovation!

I haven't used the T80 or M92 services so I don't know whether to support your proposition that these are in fact high-turnover routes. My support for deckers on any route is on the basis that people basically board them for a long trip into a CBD and not for getting on and off at intermediate points along a route. If what you say is true, then artics would be the way to go.

[simonl]

You won't see bi-articulated buses on Australian roads due to the axle load issue apparently.

Seriously?

Bi-artics are a bit unwieldy anyway. Only ones I've heard of are on dedicated bus roads.

I shudder to think of bi artics on Brisbane's busways BTW. Pretty sure they've been ruled out. They wouldn't suit the underground infrastructure so you'd need to use surface stops in the city. Not a killer but doesn't really answer the "why?" question. Particularly when deckers have a similar number of seats with the same problem.

I haven't used the T80 or M92 services so I don't know whether to support your proposition that these are in fact high-turnover routes. My support for deckers on any route is on the basis that people basically board them for a long trip into a CBD and not for getting on and off at intermediate points along a route. If what you say is true, then artics would be the way to go.

Making them well suited for B-Line, E8n, L70, M2 buses, etc.

[Campbelltown busboy]

In the morning peak the CB80s that Transit Systems currently use on the T80 from Liverpool get a full load by Woodpark T way stop witch means a reserve T80 that starts at Bonnyrigg continues to pick up passengers between Woodpark and Parramatta with a decker that morning peak T80 from Liverpool could pick up from another 3 stops witch means it could accept passengers at both T way stops in Merrylands West and the Centenary T way stop in South Wentworthvile after that it's up to the driver that if he or she can squeeze anymore passengers on

Plus Transit Systems would have to train drivers to drive the deckers