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F6, STM and rail tunnel

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby Swift » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:23 pm

Linto63 wrote:
Swift wrote:PS: the original 1970 sets were the best looking on the outside at least.
Agree, the blue and grey goose fronts were the best coupled with the clean lines not punctuated by DDA painted doors. The replacement of double glazing would explain why they don't seem as quiet as they used to, although I guess when they did enter service they were just so much quieter than anything else that it was probably just relative to everything else.


Later batches of the V set from 1977 had the same grey with blue highlights front as well. Only from about 1983, all new V sets recieved the later State Rail Authority white "candy" painted fronts with orange and red stripe. I, personally liked the even sized windows (no square windows) and slightly more aerodynamic front "forehead" of the original 1970 batch.
All those other features mentioned were added subsequently later in their life. Gradual "bastardising'' of V sets included less attractive metal windscreen surrounds in place of original rubber mounted glass installed as part of the windscreen strengthening programme in the early 1990s. This altered their appearance detrimentally. Looked less "clean".
Then came the phasing out of the gold mirror double glazed side windows with cheaper single glaze dark tinted glass. This started as a trickle when only windows in need of replacement got so treated, and then they replaced all remaining gold glass around the late 1990s. The impressive internal quietness was certainly compromised by this. I hated it. It ruined the purity of the quiet ride experience they were so good at.
Then, of course the DDA yellow doors mentioned above. Later batches of the V set received the boring sounding chopper control instead of the lovely cam noise they had been known for. Funny enough, the candy fronted ones with cams were some of the loudest!
Then we had the last batch with Goninan S set style side fluting (instead of the traditional Comeng type) and air powered vestibule doors that didn't function for very long and ended up staying open all the time, letting more noise in.
Then the attractive cloth insert orange seats in candy front series V sets were standardised to the green ones (obviously) to simplify inventory.
Another sign that Railcorp was only concerned with keeping costs down and all sense of pride was gone.

I can recall seeing the converted 1970 motor cars in V set consists and noticing the slightly more swept back tops of the old fronts compared to the later ones. Some were all over grey with a few still sporting the blue highlights.
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby Linto63 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:18 pm

IIRC the first candy fronted powercars were DIM8069/70 which were also the first with the yellow interiors and ditch lights. First appeared as the Newcastle electrification official opening train in June 1984.

While I did like the original green seat and fake wood interiors of the earlier sets, also liked the yellow interiors. A similar scheme was introduced to the later K sets at the same time and while some didn't like the hot colours, it was a welcome change from the drab 1970s cream and brown.

Was before my time, but I do recall seeing pictures of the original batch that had blue seats and different interior lights, I think they were upgraded when they were split and the motor cars converted to trailers to work with the DCM powercars.

Unlike other cars, with the last 14 'square flute' cars each motor and trailer seem to be semi-permanently attached much like K and C car sets. Recall that the different fluting had to be used as Comeng by this stage no longer held a licence to use it from Budd, or it could have just been change for the sake of change. They also had different seats with an individual headrest, but these were eliminated in the 2013 refurbishments. Think they were part of an order for 50, but the contract was cut short by the incoming Greiner government and instead K and later G sets were deployed on Gosford and Wollongong services.

But as said, gradually they have been bastardised by successive administrations and they are not what they once were. Like the destination displays that never worked, protruding headlights, double glazing removal. :(
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby tonyp » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:11 am

There's an interesting article by Philip Laird and Max Michell in December Railway Digest on the ongoing subject of improving the south coast rail journey time. It covers a lot of already well-discussed ground, but I found a couple of comments of interest.

One gap in my timetable collection is the period from the late 1980s immediately post electrification of the first stage of the south coast to Port Kembla. The authors note from that timetable that there were V sets doing the Sydney-Wollongong trip in about 1 hr 15 min, which is a good 15 min faster than the existing journey time. It reinforces my recollection that the 1980s were when journey times across the system were at their best ever.

Another matter obviously discussed in the article is the tunnel options and there is a optimistic-looking map in the article showing a tunnelled alignment in a virtual straight line from Waterfall to Coledale! Having seen underground maps (imprecise ones at that) of the workings of Coalcliff colliery which extend from the sea to many kms inland, I thought that the authors were assuming a lot, to put it mildly. However, there is a reference to the use of "bridging" to deal with these underground instabilities and I don't think they mean bridges on the surface, but underground sections of line somehow reinforced with bridge sections to get them over weak spots.

I can imagine such technology being developed as a natural response to a known issue, but does anybody know about this technology and any examples of it?
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby lunchbox » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:50 am

Tony, I remember seeing a diagram of the extensive rockbolting proposed for the site where the Metro tunnel passes over the Cross City Tunnel. It would have been on a website, but I can't remember which one. The EIS for Metro Chatswood to Sydenham is dated May - June 2016.
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:08 am

Here's a little bit of explanation of the subject in a paper that may be worth reading -

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Wb ... as&f=false
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby tonyp » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:00 pm

Tonymercury wrote:Here's a little bit of explanation of the subject in a paper that may be worth reading -

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=Wb ... as&f=false

Your googling was more successful than mine!

Several years ago I worked on a consultancy job on the surface of Maddens Plains, under which some of these tunnel alignments might pass. The proponent was trying to rezone areas on which residential development (single, large-acreage houses) could be built. There were only about half a dozen quite tiny footprints identified where they must have established that there was solid ground (walls or pillars in the mine underneath). If that was the case for half a dozen houses, good luck with a railway tunnel!

In the course of the work I came across an unscaled map of the Coalciff workings. They go for many kms inland from the coast. They really stuffed things up on the south coast over the last century and more. This affects the Princes Motorway too but, being on the surface, they can deal with it.
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Postby Tonymercury » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:22 pm

tonyp wrote:Your googling was more successful than mine!



I suspect my daughter went to school a lot later than did yours - she certainly showed me what to do!
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby Aurora » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:12 pm

Linto63 wrote:The removal of V sets from South Coast services was certainly a dumbing down of the service and the use of suburban Tangaras on 2 hour Bondi Junction - Wollongong services is fairly poor.

I think Tangaras are only used for local services. There are just a few that turn into another local service out of Waterfall towards Port Kembla and vice versa.
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby Frosty » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:35 pm

Tangara’s are used on local services and extensions of suburban stopping services. I’m just wondering if they upgraded the SCO line to Waterfall. Wouldn’t there be capacity constraints between Sutherland & Hurstville & north of Wolli Creek.
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Re: F6, STM and rail tunnel

Postby Linto63 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:13 pm

Aurora wrote:I think Tangaras are only used for local services. There are just a few that turn into another local service out of Waterfall towards Port Kembla and vice versa.
There are (or certainly in the last timetable were) a couple of evening peak services from Bondi Junction to Wollongong that returned in the morning peak. There is also an afternoon service from Waterfall that extends to Helensburgh to convey school students that is operated by a Tangara. The Port Kemblas are usually operated by Oscars.
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