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2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Linto63 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:55 pm

boronia wrote:
Linto63 wrote:Another reason for cutting Redfern from intercity services may be to do with crowd management. Have seen the relatively narrow platform 2/3 heaving on occasions, although this may have been when there were special events at Homebush.

I'm not sure how having people who might have got off at platform 1, now joining the throngs on platform 3 will improve crowd management.
Wasn't so much of an issue in the morning with few if any services stopping at platform 2. More of an issue in the evening with passengers waiting for services from platforms 2/3 milling with at times quite a few getting off platform 3 services.

Another factor that may be distorting the data is the recent removal of the barriers at Redfern. Now maybe I am being a grumpy old cynic, but I would put money that the percentage of uni students who evade would be much higher than the community at large.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Frodo » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:57 pm

Hendikins wrote:
Newcastle Flyer wrote:Trains
What I can't understand is the next train is a semi-express stopping at only three extra stations, but takes 12 minutes longer. How can skipping just three stations add up to saving of 12 minutes, especially when the now fastest express is meant to take a minute longer between Wickham & Hamilton?


This particular service is required to be operated by an Oscar and run to white speed boards (to 130km/h max).


So now that all weekend CCN services are run by oscars, why isn't there a reduction in travelling time to account for that?

In fact, travelling times have INCREASED even with 1 less stop (Eastwood). A typical weekend express service under the old timetable: Hamilton 12.40pm - Central 3.10pm, run by a V-set (2 hr 30 min).
New timetable: Hamilton 12.56pm - Central 3.29pm (2 hr 33 min) - Oscar operated.

Journey times are similar from Central to Newcastle under the old and new timetables but given that services are now fully operated by oscar, surely they can reduce the journey times instead of having to pad out the timetable even more.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Hendikins » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:23 pm

swtt wrote:Why don't other Oscar services run to white speed boards?


When crewed by a suitably qualified driver they do, but the other services are scheduled so that they can be operated with a V set if required.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Geo101 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:26 pm

boronia wrote:
Geo101 wrote:From https://transportnsw.info

07:44 departure stop name Springwood Station, Platform 1 Springwood (Stop ID 2777191)
Blue Mountains Line towards Central
09:06 stop name Central Station, Platform 6, suburb Sydney trip leg
Walk 11min (887m)
arrival time 09:18 arrival stop name University of Technology Sydney, Broadway, Ultimo
I won't add the option to take a bus from railway square to Broadway, because there are simply too many buses to select. About one every 2-3 minutes at that time of the day.
If the numbers were truly that large, they would already have bus services from Redfern?
EDIT: Straight from the web site

This is for the UTS (which is on Broadway and down into Ultimo), almost opp Central Station. One bus stop from Railway Square.). It is different to UoS, which would be a 15-30 minute walk from Central, depending on which part of the campus you needed to go to. There are plenty of buses from Railway Square which serve the City Rd or Parramatta Rd entrances. Access time from Redfern would again depend on which part of the campus you need to get to. Much of the Darlington area, to the east of City Rd, is used by the Uni now.


Aha yes, massive typo there. I was wondering how it came up with 11 minutes myself.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Glen » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:53 pm

boronia wrote:I just read a response from ST/TfNSW on FB where they now claim that that Redfern was deleted for "safety reasons". All those people getting off BMT trains onto an empty platform 1 were at great risk.

Is it because an 8DDIU doesn't fully fit on the platform?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:58 am

I know they don't fit on Platform 2, not sure about 1. But the claim was based on "overcrowding", which is hardly justifiable. But CCN trains still stop there.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:58 am

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Hendikins » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:54 am

boronia wrote:I know they don't fit on Platform 2, not sure about 1. But the claim was based on "overcrowding", which is hardly justifiable. But CCN trains still stop there.


They don't fit on platform 1 either.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby tonyp » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:36 am


This is all long-known stuff and previous attempts to speed things up/ make more capacity have ended in disaster and everything slowed down to recover on-time running. The double deck system is pretty much at its capacity and will only be relieved as metro lines are built to take the pressure off it. It might help in the meantime to start ordering single-deck trains with three or four doors per car to speed up the dwells. We all know by now that they have the same practical capacity as the double decks but with less seats and more standees. May be necessary to keep the system going.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Linto63 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:05 pm

tonyp wrote:It might help in the meantime to start ordering single-deck trains with three or four doors per car to speed up the dwells.
With the Waratah extension to see off the remaining S sets with an option to extend the order and the remaining silver sets to be replaced by Oscars in the early 2020s, not likely to be any other type of stock ordered for another decade.

Video with Howard Collins and the grand timetable poobah. https://m.facebook.com/SydneyTrains/ As always, people will believe or disbelieve as they see fit, but does explain some of the thinking.

Reveals number of S sets rostered has increased from 6 to 20. So the additional Waratahs will be replacing the S sets on a like for like basis, they may operate on T2/T3/T8 and not on T4 as was suggested when the order was announced.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby mandonov » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:22 pm

It seems they're just maintained at Mortdale because it's the only depot with room.

2024 will be a banner year for the network with all S sets replaced, all Oscars cascaded, and Bankstown disconnected. It will be an uncomfortable 6 years for many people until then.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby GazzaOak » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:54 pm

mandonov wrote:It seems they're just maintained at Mortdale because it's the only depot with room.

2024 will be a banner year for the network with all S sets replaced, all Oscars cascaded, and Bankstown disconnected. It will be an uncomfortable 6 years for many people until then.


Yep, long term gain for short term pain.... and voters are often dudders.... i wouldn't be suprised if labor trashed this timetable if they win...

The timetable will improve overall
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:42 pm

mandonov wrote:It seems they're just maintained at Mortdale because it's the only depot with room.

2024 will be a banner year for the network with all S sets replaced, all Oscars cascaded, and Bankstown disconnected. It will be an uncomfortable 6 years for many people until then.


B sets will move to the be maintained at the AMF and not MMC. Announcement from the CEO last week.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby mandonov » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:52 pm

swtt wrote:
mandonov wrote:It seems they're just maintained at Mortdale because it's the only depot with room.

2024 will be a banner year for the network with all S sets replaced, all Oscars cascaded, and Bankstown disconnected. It will be an uncomfortable 6 years for many people until then.


B sets will move to the be maintained at the AMF and not MMC. Announcement from the CEO last week.

Ah well that makes more sense doesn't it. Will the MMC upgrade be for the M Sets then or just to fit more T's?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:45 pm

mandonov wrote:Ah well that makes more sense doesn't it. Will the MMC upgrade be for the M Sets then or just to fit more T's?



Not sure. All I can say is, MMC got a big upgrade! :P

Maybe the home of more T sets and H sets.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby andy_centralcoast » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:41 am

boronia wrote:
Linto63 wrote:Another reason for cutting Redfern from intercity services may be to do with crowd management. Have seen the relatively narrow platform 2/3 heaving on occasions, although this may have been when there were special events at Homebush. Think it was a mistake not to have replaced the footbridge at the southern end when the old one was condemned and demolished in the 1980s.

I'm not sure how having people who might have got off at platform 1, now joining the throngs on platform 3 will improve crowd management.

You were spot on - Sydney Trains are now admitting the timetable changes have caused a crowd management issue at Redfern and are asking Northern and Western Line customers alighting at Redfern between 7am and 9:30am to use the last 6 carriages of the train to avoid crowding on Platform 3.

Temporary fencing has also been put in place on platform 3, restricting access to the stairs from the Sydney end of the platform. People walking down the stairs at Redfern are funnelled further along via the platform 2 side.

Ironically they're still claiming BMT trains now skip Redfern because crowding on platform 1 was becoming too unsafe to stop at. The PR spin is "by having customers change at Strathfield or Central we're keeping everyone safe". I guess CCN and SCO customers don't need to be kept safe, because trains from those lines still stop there!
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby pgt » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:38 pm

One thing I hadn't noticed, and is probably a side effect of the new timetables, is that a number of bus stops where they have the "hop" style signage and timetables now have the Metrobus routes on the timetables there.
Example being the M30 at Neutral Bay Junction citybound (stand A) shows on the timetable there - the B1 however does not.
Stand J at Wynyard (the one where the M20, M30 and M40 operate towards Town Hall) shows those times as well.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby GazzaOak » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:03 pm

I just think redfern has a general issue overall.... i think they better off building an whole new concourse and demolishing the old one
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Liamena » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:10 pm

aman wrote:
That's exactly what I mean. Bankstown is not South Western Sydney (no matter how much the media tries to convey this).


Well according to the cretinous and misleading diagrams at Sydney Airport, "south west Sydney" must be Bankstown, because according to them, you have to go from Sydney Airport to Central to catch one.

You would certainly be better off going to Campbelltown and also probably Liverpool and Fairfield by catching a train in the opposite direction from the Airport, than towards Central. Not to mention Wolli Creek, Hurstville, etc.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Liamena » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:14 pm

boronia wrote:I know they don't fit on Platform 2, not sure about 1. But the claim was based on "overcrowding", which is hardly justifiable. But CCN trains still stop there.


Why would anyone have a good reason to get off a CCN train at Platform 2 at Redfern ?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Free Lance » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:33 am

Airport to Bankstown simply, (1) catch first train Airport to Wolli Creek change trains (2) train from Wolli Creek to Sydenham (3) change trains again (3) Sydenham to Bankstown
(4) of course knowing Sydney, Airport to Padstow Station then bus to Bankstown (either M91 or M92 or some I don't even know)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:44 am

I notice in the new printed timetables, there are separate pages for Saturdays and Sundays/holidays, where as previously there was just one page for both.

A quick look through T1 West didn't show any differences, has anyone checked in detail?:
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby tonyp » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:48 am

GazzaOak wrote:I just think redfern has a general issue overall.... i think they better off building an whole new concourse and demolishing the old one

Well, except for the heritage building. I think they've done this at Newtown.

Redfern has to be made to work as the university station and the station for the business and residential development around it and this work needs to extend across the streets beyond its perimeters too. It's woefully inadequate for the job it has to do. The fact that it's the 5th busiest station on the entire system means that all trains need to stop there and the infrastructure has to be available for that to work properly.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:49 am

Liamena wrote:
boronia wrote:I know they don't fit on Platform 2, not sure about 1. But the claim was based on "overcrowding", which is hardly justifiable. But CCN trains still stop there.


Why would anyone have a good reason to get off a CCN train at Platform 2 at Redfern ?

There was no suggestion that they would (although I have seen passengers doing so - someone coming off the LR at a convenient time would avoid two sets of stairs to get a suburban service), it was purely a question about platform lengths.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:50 am

I think the problem at Redern is the platforms, not the concourse.
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