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2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:18 pm

When I downloaded the new 168 timetable, the usual two options appeared; 'Current' and 'Valid from 26 Nov 2017'. Although these two options were in separate boxes side-by-side with the current saying 'NORTH BALGOWLAH TO MILSONS POINT & CITY WYNYARD' and the new timetabled 'NORTH BALGOWLAH TO MILSONS POINT'.

This feature does not yet exist for some of the other Northern Region routes that have been modified, an example is with route 185 as it still displays 'Mona Vale to City Wynyard via Warriewood' as the heading for the NEW timetable. The same happens with the NEW timetable for route 155. This is only a temporary issue and wont exist come 26/11/2017.

I've noticed that in many of the timetables there are some timing points that take up two lines of text. Is it possible to condense the information or is it essential to provide so much information about particular timing points? What are peoples thoughts on this?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby pgt » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:53 pm

Stu wrote:I've noticed that in many of the timetables there are some timing points that take up two lines of text. Is it possible to condense the information or is it essential to provide so much information about particular timing points? What are peoples thoughts on this?
I prefer the one line per timing point, although the one for Neutral Bay Junction inbound on the B1 timetable either is meant to read something else, or was rushed since it reads:

Neutral Bay B-Line Stop, Military Rd (place holder
for new B-line stop), Neutral Bay


Also, it is going to be confusing at Neutral Bay Junction with some routes showing stops at "Military Road at Rangers Road, Neutral Bay" (presumably the existing AM peak "set down only" stop) or "Military Road at Wycombe Road" (the current stop). There seems to be no pattern as to which stop is used when, unless I've missed something about how Neutral Bay is being reconfigured (right now, there's a large yellow pole for what looks like a real-time information display there).
As an example of what I mean, look at the Chatswood bound timetable for routes 143 and 144.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Liamena » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:04 pm

Is that the stop that has the sign "Watson" on it ? If that's the name on the sign, then why not use that ?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby pgt » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Liamena wrote:Is that the stop that has the sign "Watson" on it ? If that's the name on the sign, then why not use that ?
Citybound, it's the stop before that (down the bottom of the hill), where there are 3 "stops" for morning peak services.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:12 pm

The 891 timetable is interesting: in between 08:04 and 09:00 some services will terminate at High St near Botany St (former Gate 9) whilst all remaining services will apparently stop at Gate 8 and terminate at Gate 3, I would presume services using Gate 8 and Gate 3 will not stop at High St near Botany St. The timing point 'High St near Botany St' is incorrectly displayed as existing after Gate 8 and before Gate 3, somebody didn't refer to a map.

* This additional stop (or reborn stop) makes sense as earlier this month the Southern side of High St between Botany St & Wansey Rd was re-opened to Westbound traffic only after many months of Westbound traffic only using both the middle section or the Northern side of High St between Botany St & Wansey Rd - depending on construction requirements of the day/evening.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:19 pm

The Eastern suburbs / beaches crowd will not know what hit them considering the scope of changes in that area. It would appear that there is a shift towards funneling more people onto the train with the introduction of the route 379. The truncation of routes 389 & 440 allows for a re-write of both respective timetables and I believe that TfNSW are of the expectation that this move will drive down the high number of complaints about service reliability for these two routes.


- 333: new short workings between BJI and Nth Bondi in both directions and a handful short working from paddington to the City.

- 381: no longer operates to Nth Bondi during Mon-Fri, only on weekends - this will be a welcome change for drivers as so many people just assume that every 381 heads to Nth Bondi. This change allows room for the 333 short workings to be slotted in.

- 382: rejuvenated service with more AM peak services (previously just 1) and 2 x commencing from Nth Bondi. I like how the timetable continues to say 'Dover Heights' even though the only services to operate to and from Dover Heights exist on New Years Eve only. Although with these new TfNSW controlled timetables that can be updated to show additional services for special events, on NYE the Dover Hts timing point can be added so this timetable will appear 100% accurate for one day of each year.

- 389: No need for short workings commencing from Woollahra during the AM peak due to services commencing nearby from BJI.
Minor error: there are two trips that apparently operate from BJI to Nth Bondi (10:43 & 12:05). Definitely a mistake considering that the 10:43 DEPARTING BJI is somehow departing after the 10:10 trip from Maritime Museum that is ARRIVING and terminating at BJI at 10:50. The same pattern exists for the 12:04 trip.

- 352, 353, 360 & 418: so many late night services added to these routes.

- 440: no more short workings to Railway Sq and from Central Stn (Eddy Ave). This set up was inherited from the amalgamation of routes 378 & 440 back in 2015; 378 used to be a 10 minutes services all day between Bronte and Railway Sq whilst the 440 was a 20 minutes service off-peak between the City and Rozelle - both respective 'old' service frequencies were maintained. Now the 440 is a 15 minute service off-peak end-to-end with a number of new short workings from BJI to Leichhardt.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:59 am

Stu wrote:The Eastern suburbs / beaches crowd will not know what hit them considering the scope of changes in that area. It would appear that there is a shift towards funneling more people onto the train with the introduction of the route 379. The truncation of routes 389 & 440 allows for a re-write of both respective timetables and I believe that TfNSW are of the expectation that this move will drive down the high number of complaints about service reliability for these two routes.


- 333: new short workings between BJI and Nth Bondi in both directions and a handful short working from paddington to the City.

- 381: no longer operates to Nth Bondi during Mon-Fri, only on weekends - this will be a welcome change for drivers as so many people just assume that every 381 heads to Nth Bondi. This change allows room for the 333 short workings to be slotted in.

- 382: rejuvenated service with more AM peak services (previously just 1) and 2 x commencing from Nth Bondi. I like how the timetable continues to say 'Dover Heights' even though the only services to operate to and from Dover Heights exist on New Years Eve only. Although with these new TfNSW controlled timetables that can be updated to show additional services for special events, on NYE the Dover Hts timing point can be added so this timetable will appear 100% accurate for one day of each year.

- 389: No need for short workings commencing from Woollahra during the AM peak due to services commencing nearby from BJI.
Minor error: there are two trips that apparently operate from BJI to Nth Bondi (10:43 & 12:05). Definitely a mistake considering that the 10:43 DEPARTING BJI is somehow departing after the 10:10 trip from Maritime Museum that is ARRIVING and terminating at BJI at 10:50. The same pattern exists for the 12:04 trip.

- 352, 353, 360 & 418: so many late night services added to these routes.

- 440: no more short workings to Railway Sq and from Central Stn (Eddy Ave). This set up was inherited from the amalgamation of routes 378 & 440 back in 2015; 378 used to be a 10 minutes services all day between Bronte and Railway Sq whilst the 440 was a 20 minutes service off-peak between the City and Rozelle - both respective 'old' service frequencies were maintained. Now the 440 is a 15 minute service off-peak end-to-end with a number of new short workings from BJI to Leichhardt.

* One more thing I should mention, route 294 continues to incorrectly display 'Macquarie University' which was quietly removed in the last timetable update 24th April 2017 (Growth Buses - AM peak). The latest timetable has added an additional service from Macquarie Centre during the PM peak.
Again, ATDB has more info than TfNSW

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:41 am

swtt wrote:Again, ATDB has more info than TfNSW



In itself this is worrying - remember how much information there was for the CBD changes two years ago? - now virtually nothing is being said.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby moa999 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:06 pm

Tonymercury wrote: remember how much information there was for the CBD changes two years ago? - no virtually nothing is being said.


Not worth confusing the general populous until say a week before everything commences.

I'd expect plenty of signboards at BJ.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:03 pm

moa999 wrote:
I'd expect plenty of signboards at BJ.


Which will be read by the usual small number of passengers.

Makes me feel sorry for the operators.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:24 pm

moa999 wrote:
Tonymercury wrote:
I'd expect plenty of signboards at BJ.


I wouldnt. This governments policy since The Hop rebranding is "you don't need information on signs, do your homework on your phone beforehand or at the last minute and dont clog the concourse for everyone else"
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Engineering » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:30 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the definition of a “service”, particularly in the context of Sydney trains offering 1500 extra services a week?

Is a train that leaves Hornsby and goes all the way to Penrith classified as 1 service, or is it 30 services because it stops at 30 stations along the way in its single journey.

If the new timetable changed an existing train that originally skipped X and Y, but now they stop at X and Y - is that two new services?

How many services are there currently a week? (Hence one could establish the percentage increase not just an absolute number).

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:12 pm

The 143 has been whittled down once again, during the last timetable change it became a Mon - Fri only service although now the latest timetable change has now made it become peak hours only. This will indeed directly affect the 144 timetable as well.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:09 pm

Looks like that Bus Changes page has been updated with a little more detail.

However, still no major details on what has changed on the Northern Beaches.

https://transportnsw.info/moving-forward/bus#/

UPDATE: the original proposals for the Northern Beaches Bus Plan have all but been locked away and made private (& inaccessible) on that wretched B-line site.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:07 am

Tonymercury wrote:
I'd expect plenty of signboards at BJ.
[/quote]

I wouldnt. This governments policy since The Hop rebranding is "you don't need information on signs, do your homework on your phone beforehand or at the last minute and dont clog the concourse for everyone else"[/quote]

Please correct the incorrect quoting
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Special_K » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:02 pm

Keen timetable analysts would have noticed that while T3 Lidcombe via Bankstown trains will operate via the City Circle outer line, daytime Liverpool via Bankstown trains will operate via the City Circle inner line. So, in simple terms, all stops T3 to Lidcombe will depart from platform 22 at Central and fast T3 Liverpool via Bankstown trains will leave from platform 19!

At night, when the Liverpool trains become all stops they revert to the City Circle outer line with all T3 trains departing from platform 22 at Central.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:24 pm

Special_K wrote:Keen timetable analysts would have noticed that while T3 Lidcombe via Bankstown trains will operate via the City Circle outer line, daytime Liverpool via Bankstown trains will operate via the City Circle inner line. So, in simple terms, all stops T3 to Lidcombe will depart from platform 22 at Central and fast T3 Liverpool via Bankstown trains will leave from platform 19!

At night, when the Liverpool trains become all stops they revert to the City Circle outer line with all T3 trains departing from platform 22 at Central.



Those screens on platform 19 will finally see some more variation every 30 min: T2 Leppington/T2 Parramatta/T2 Leppington/T2 Homebush/T3 Liverpool :lol:
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:27 pm

Did anyone pickup the fact that X09/X10/X93 will now have a Green Square stop?

https://transportnsw.info/moving-forward/bus#/
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Special_K » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:41 pm

Weekday off-peak trains sequences appear to be fairly linear. i.e Emu Plains to Hornsby via Macquarie Park.

The most interesting appears to be Leppington via Granville-Quay (outer)-Lidcombe via Bankstown-Quay (outer) -Macarthur via Airport-Quay (inner)-Leppington via Granville. A train departing Leppington at 8.09 would not return to Leppington until 15.51.

This sequence of runs would produce the longest non-interurban trip without changing ends. Macarthur-Quay-Leppington (2 hours and 37 mins)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:44 pm

Special_K wrote:Weekday off-peak trains sequences appear to be fairly linear. i.e Emu Plains to Hornsby via Macquarie Park.

The most interesting appears to be Leppington via Granville-Quay (outer)-Lidcombe via Bankstown-Quay (outer) -Macarthur via Airport-Quay (inner)-Leppington via Granville. A train departing Leppington at 8.09 would not return to Leppington until 15.51.

This sequence of runs would produce the longest non-interurban trip without changing ends. Macarthur-Quay-Leppington (2 hours and 37 mins)

That's quite silly IMO. All that work on Rail Clearways all those years ago and we're now tying T2/T8 into T3 yet again :(
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby crimsontide » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:38 pm

swtt wrote:
Special_K wrote:Weekday off-peak trains sequences appear to be fairly linear. i.e Emu Plains to Hornsby via Macquarie Park.

The most interesting appears to be Leppington via Granville-Quay (outer)-Lidcombe via Bankstown-Quay (outer) -Macarthur via Airport-Quay (inner)-Leppington via Granville. A train departing Leppington at 8.09 would not return to Leppington until 15.51.

This sequence of runs would produce the longest non-interurban trip without changing ends. Macarthur-Quay-Leppington (2 hours and 37 mins)

That's quite silly IMO. All that work on Rail Clearways all those years ago and we're now tying T2/T8 into T3 yet again :(


Not like the Railway to reinvent the Wheel. ;)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Frosty » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:39 pm

swtt wrote:Did anyone pickup the fact that X09/X10/X93 will now have a Green Square stop?

https://transportnsw.info/moving-forward/bus#/



I did notice X09/X10 stop there but X93 interesting. I can see the benefit of the X93 now providing an alternative to the 370. Also noticed the X93 will be going via Gardeners Rd again. But will the right turn from Gardeners Rd into Anzac be re-instated to allow this.
The problem was along Botany Rd more people got on the all stops than the express inbound which left no room for customers north of Gardeners Rd. And outbound the patronage was low.

They changed timings for the X09/X10 between Central Elizabeth St and Gardeners Rd by adding 4-5 mins extra each way. While the all stops has the same timings.
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Note the mistake on THIS 322 route

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 pm

Note the mistake on the last page of *this* 322 route. Look at what "D" means.
After that, check WHAT 322 route it is!
https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 170101.pdf!
Diverts to Oxley Hwy & Widderson St (TAFE and University of Newcastle) at 3.27pm via Oxley Hwy & return.

It seems their are quite a number of mistakes in the new timetables.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:03 pm

Frosty wrote:
swtt wrote:Did anyone pickup the fact that X09/X10/X93 will now have a Green Square stop?

https://transportnsw.info/moving-forward/bus#/



I did notice X09/X10 stop there but X93 interesting. I can see the benefit of the X93 now providing an alternative to the 370. Also noticed the X93 will be going via Gardeners Rd again. But will the right turn from Gardeners Rd into Anzac be re-instated to allow this.
The problem was along Botany Rd more people got on the all stops than the express inbound which left no room for customers north of Gardeners Rd. And outbound the patronage was low.

They changed timings for the X09/X10 between Central Elizabeth St and Gardeners Rd by adding 4-5 mins extra each way. While the all stops has the same timings.



The X93-OUT will probably operate via veering right at Bunnerong Rd, left into Sturt St to cross over the Northbound Anzac Pde lanes and then left into the Southbound Anzac Pde lanes. Traffic lights were installed at the intersection (previously un-controlled) of Anzac Pde & Sturt St, Kingsford in September. Customers at Green Square will be happy with the impending changes and no longer have to gaze in an angry fashion towards the driver and the handful of spare seats on X09 & X10 services sailing by. The Green Square bus stop is very busy during the PM peak and the actual bus stop infrastructure really needs to be lengthened although I dont think anything permanent will happen anytime soon due the always ongoing and long term construction projects happening literally at the bus stop.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Frosty » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:14 pm

Bit difficult to have upgraded bus infrastructure at Green Square. Green Square offers a better interchange than Redfern. Considering Redfern requires two sets off traffic lights to cross and doesn’t have good weather protection.
What was annoying the council have been doing works along Botany Rd but didn’t think of extending the bus bay on Botany Rd. Though good luck to bus drivers inbound trying to get to right turn lane for Bourke St.

I saw the 389 9:20am working from Lawson St Paddington to BJI has been renumbered to 388.
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