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2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Which is the same thing in this case.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby andy_centralcoast » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:57 am

SMH says recommendations outlining changes to the rail timetable will be made public in the next few days, but the report itself on how Sydney Trains can better recover from major incidents will not be.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:03 am

andy_centralcoast wrote:SMH says recommendations outlining changes to the rail timetable will be made public in the next few days, but the report itself on how Sydney Trains can better recover from major incidents will not be.


My take:

* Offpeak TT reverts to old TT:
- Weekend Cumberland Line trains axed
- Fast Liverpool weekday trains gone
- T2 Parramatta trains off peak scaled back to Homebush
- Maybe even some cuts to T1 Epping back to 30 min at particular times during the day.

It was a good vision for the TT but unfortunately the lack of staff didn't help.

Or perhaps, in a bold and daring proposal from myself, retrain all guards to be drivers and DOO. Immediate doubling of drivers :) <ducks for cover>
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:33 am

I dont think it will be that drastic.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:26 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:I dont think it will be that drastic.


That's basically the bulk of the additional services which made it an even bigger reliance on overtime - so only a guess :)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:52 pm

swtt wrote:Or perhaps, in a bold and daring proposal from myself, retrain all guards to be drivers and DOO. Immediate doubling of drivers :) <ducks for cover>

Bring that on.

Why is it that 3 other states can achieve it but we (and Qld) can't?

One journalist was really hammering Andrew Constance in a recent interview about why not and no answer was given; well unless you count having the metro being an answer as to why the rest of the system wouldn't get an upgrade.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Bjwh86 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:50 pm

If the trains were changed to driver only operation, with the placement of the buttons for door operation, would the driver have to stand to open/close all doors or are there door operation buttons on the drivers console in the newer trains with the screen showing external camera view?


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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Transtopic » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:11 pm

Bjwh86 wrote:If the trains were changed to driver only operation, with the placement of the buttons for door operation, would the driver have to stand to open/close all doors or are there door operation buttons on the drivers console in the newer trains with the screen showing external camera view?


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I would expect the latter.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:16 pm

simonl wrote:
One journalist was really hammering Andrew Constance in a recent interview about why not and no answer was given; well unless you count having the metro being an answer as to why the rest of the system wouldn't get an upgrade.

Politicians and senior public servants seem to only reply to questions that their media advisers have given them answers to rehearse. Ask 3 or 4 different people the same question and you will get near identical answers from each of them.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby grog » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:18 pm

The trains would have to be modified. Even the 24 new trains to come this year specify only that they need to be capable of being modified for DOO.

The New Intercity Fleet on the other had I believe are capable from day 1.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:30 am

People are overlooking a number of other issues here, as there is a much bigger picture.

A straight conversion to DOO requires a lot more, otherwise some trains will suffer major delays.

Despite all of the talk over the years, DOO requires major changes, which will take a long time to implement.

It will be interesting to see if a start has been made by reconfiguring the complete passenger layout of the B sets.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Qantas94Heavy » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:22 pm

grog wrote:The trains would have to be modified. Even the 24 new trains to come this year specify only that they need to be capable of being modified for DOO.

The New Intercity Fleet on the other had I believe are capable from day 1.

Both the Waratahs and Growth Trains are meant to be convertible to DOO in 48 hours, which basically involve an extra CCTV screen and door control buttons next to the driver.

As you've said, the New Intercity Fleet will be delivered with full DOO capability.

I don't see why they can't have DOO on the new trains and guards remaining on the older trains though. Would provide a good incentive to replace them more quickly too ;)

Tonymercury wrote:People are overlooking a number of other issues here, as there is a much bigger picture.

A straight conversion to DOO requires a lot more, otherwise some trains will suffer major delays.

Despite all of the talk over the years, DOO requires major changes, which will take a long time to implement.

It will be interesting to see if a start has been made by reconfiguring the complete passenger layout of the B sets.

What are these issues though? The only thing I can think of in particular is disability access. Deploying a ramp would have to be done by station staff or a customer service assistant on board (easier to hire/train than proper guards).
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Glen » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:16 pm

I could imagine Sydney could convert to DOO in stages, such as the outer (quieter) ends of lines first, keeping guards through the city, or starting with DOO off-peak and weekends first.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:51 am

Qantas94Heavy wrote: The only thing I can think of in particular is disability access. Deploying a ramp would have to be done by station staff or a customer service assistant on board (easier to hire/train than proper guards).


Indeed - but at unattended stations? Do you know of any other major urban systems that have replaced guards with CSAs? The best answer, is of course, a conversion to level boarding which would solve this altogether. Note that this still has not been properly achieved on even the IWLR, where the opportunity came and went. But should be on Metro and CSELR. On Sydney Trains it hasn't even started.

The will need to be a lot more achieved in the way of standardisation of the fleet and layout and equipment of the cars. Proper CCTV fitting of all of the fleet. Emergency disembarkation arrangements. Passenger emergency communications.

And actually proving that the staff know where the emergency equipment is located. (This is backed up by a long tale I have about aircraft cabin crew and mobility aids - whatever happens, if someone takes something off you that you need, pray that there is not an emergency!)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:53 am

Tonymercury wrote:
Qantas94Heavy wrote: The only thing I can think of in particular is disability access. Deploying a ramp would have to be done by station staff or a customer service assistant on board (easier to hire/train than proper guards).


Indeed - but at unattended stations? Do you know of any other major urban systems that have replaced guards with CSAs? The best answer, is of course, a conversion to level boarding which would solve this altogether. Note that this still has not been properly achieved on even the IWLR, where the opportunity came and went. But should be on Metro and CSELR. On Sydney Trains it hasn't even started.

The will need to be a lot more achieved in the way of standardisation of the fleet and layout and equipment of the cars. Proper CCTV fitting of all of the fleet. Emergency disembarkation arrangements. Passenger emergency communications.

And actually proving that the staff know where the emergency equipment is located. (This is backed up by a long tale I have about aircraft cabin crew and mobility aids - whatever happens, if someone takes something off you that you need, pray that there is not an emergency!)
The only way you could make stations even for easy access is to straighten out curved platforms
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby grog » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:33 am

Qantas94Heavy wrote:I don't see why they can't have DOO on the new trains and guards remaining on the older trains though. Would provide a good incentive to replace them more quickly too ;)


Glen wrote:I could imagine Sydney could convert to DOO in stages, such as the outer (quieter) ends of lines first, keeping guards through the city, or starting with DOO off-peak and weekends first.


Absolutely to both of these. The slower the change, the better from my perspective, as it could be used to get the unions on board.

  • Conversion of all A sets and growth trains while out for maintenance
  • Guards still used through the frequent core
  • Displaced guards given opportunity to train as drivers
  • New pay scale for drivers with significant pay bump for DOO

With a phased implementation, increased number of trains and services over time and natural attrition, surely this could be made to be win/win, with the extent of DOO extended based on crew size and speed of natural attrition
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby simonl » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:58 pm

The unions will never be on board with DOO. Less potential union members.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:02 pm

You can certainly forget it as far as these February or March timetable refinements are concerned so no need to discuss that any further here.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:57 pm

I am wondering with regards to the changes that were implemented to routes 389 & 440 if reliability has risen and complaints have fallen?

It would be nice if something like the 379/389/440 idea would be applied to route 415. Patronage beteeen Burwood & Chiswick has barely grown much at all, the only things that have increased are the running times (many years too late and still not effective), late running and passenger complaints.
- 415 should only operate between Campsie and Burwood Westfield much like it did prior to the region 6 review (Westfield between 09:00 - 15:00).
- new route number will operate the portion of route between Burwood Stn & Chiswick.
- the route between Burwood Stn & Chiswick via Canada Bay much like the former route 409 did.
- the route 415 is duplicated by route 461 along Railway Pde, Burwood Rd & Parramatta Rd and route 530 duplicates route 415 between Burwood Stn all the way to Five Dock.

Almost no passengers who board between Chiswick & Five Dock ever travel beyond Burwood. The route 415 cross-regional service has run its course has not performed well, it is time for this service to have modifications that actually work, not just simply adding a few extra minutes to each trip.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:02 pm

Stu wrote:I am wondering with regards to the changes that were implemented to routes 389 & 440 if reliability has risen and complaints have fallen?

It would be nice if something like the 379/389/440 idea would be applied to route 415. Patronage beteeen Burwood & Chiswick has barely grown much at all, the only things that have increased are the running times (many years too late and still not effective), late running and passenger complaints.
- 415 should only operate between Campsie and Burwood Westfield much like it did prior to the region 6 review (Westfield between 09:00 - 15:00).
- new route number will operate the portion of route between Burwood Stn & Chiswick.
- the route between Burwood Stn & Chiswick via Canada Bay much like the former route 409 did.
- the route 415 is duplicated by route 461 along Railway Pde, Burwood Rd & Parramatta Rd and route 530 duplicates route 415 between Burwood Stn all the way to Five Dock.

Almost no passengers who board between Chiswick & Five Dock ever travel beyond Burwood. The route 415 cross-regional service has run its course has not performed well, it is time for this service to have modifications that actually work, not just simply adding a few extra minutes to each trip.


Similarly with the 464/466 services where it's duplicated by the

* M41 (Burwood to Concord Town Centre)
* many other routes - Coronation Parade -> Burwood (466 was rerouted via Strathfield Station in the Transit First days before even Route 900 was made a frequent service)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:58 pm

466 was re-routed for the Region 6 review. I remember the route 900 which was renumbered from the route 860 (Westway). I can't remember which route the 900 was combined with to create the m90 to Burwood.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby burrumbus » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:04 am

485/486 from Bankstown-Strathfield via Greenacre(Transit First/Westway and before that Bankstown Strathfield Bus Service)Originally route 27 of McVicars were the 2 interworked services used to create the M90.They just extended the short distance to Burwood.Hope this helps,Stu.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:28 am

Route 486 18 September 2006: Amalgamated with 860 and extended from Strathfield to Burwood as 900, Liverpool –
Bankstown – Strathfield – Burwood, as a result of Ministry of Transport review of Region 13. 900 later became M90.
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Has a bus stop changed from school only to normal stop?

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 pm

Has the "school days only" bus stop in Union St at The Junction Primary School been changed to a normal passenger bus stop, as the trip planner is telling me to change there instead of The Junction Fair stop in Union St?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Michael Bamborough » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:53 pm

Stu wrote:466 was re-routed for the Region 6 review. I remember the route 900 which was renumbered from the route 860 (Westway). I can't remember which route the 900 was combined with to create the m90 to Burwood.


900 was the whole route. It did traveled between Burwood, Bankstown & Liverpool. It pretty much got renumbered to m90 when it got upgraded to a metrobus service of course.
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