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2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:06 pm

Some information to entertain your brain.

- 143/144: STA HOP style timetable valid from 12/02/2017.
Arrival: Belgrave St, Manly.
^ Correct location of Manly / Incorrect street name of Belgrave St, this should be 'West Promenade'.


- 143: TfNSW generic style timetable valid from 12/02/2017.
- 144: TfNSW generic style timetable valid from 12/02/2017.
Arrival: West Prom, Manly Wharf.
Departure: Belgrave St, Manly Wharf.
^ Correct street names / Incorrect location of Manly Wharf, should be Manly - Gilbert Park.


- 143: TfNSW generic style timetable valid from 09/10/2017. (Pre B-Line)
- 144: TfNSW generic style timetable valid from 09/10/2017. (Pre B-Line)
Arrival: Stand J, Manly Wharf. (Correct Stand / Incorrect location of Manly Wharf, should be Manly - Gilbert Park)
Departure: Belgrave St, Manly Wharf. (Correct street / Incorrect location of Manly Wharf, should be Manly - Gilbert Park)


Unless there are going to be changes to the actual route directions then the below info should be accurate.
- 143: TfNSW generic style timetable (created in June 2017) valid from 26/11/2017.
Arrival: West Esplanade, Manly Wharf.
Departure: West Esplanade, Manly Wharf.
^ Incorrect street names - already explained above / Incorrect location - already explained above.
There is only 1 x route 143 service that operates from Manly Village Public School at 15:30 and operates via East Esplanade, Manly Wharf.

- 144: TfNSW generic style timetable (created in June 2017) valid from 26/11/2017.
Arrival: West Esplanade, Manly Wharf.
Departure: West Esplanade, Manly Wharf.
^ Incorrect street names - already explained above / Incorrect location - already explained above.
There is only 1 x route 144 service that operates to Manly Village Public School at 08:11 ex RNSH and operates via East Esplanade, Manly Wharf -
Due to the incorrect routing via West Esplanade, this is why Stand J Manly Wharf appears on the timetable. However, this presents a new problem; ever since Manly was 'HOPPED' some time ago in 2016, Stand D now sits where Stand J used to be (on West Esp) and Stand J now resides in a new location... Can anyone guess where??? This is becomming ridiculous.
West Promenade at Gilbert Park, Manly. yes, that is the set down bus stop for all route 143 & 144 services arriving to Manly.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:18 pm

Stu, so it's not just train timetables that have "obvoius" mistakes. But I think the mistake I posted here on the previous page tops all of the mistakes so far!

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby moa999 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:22 pm

Becuase you tow are obviuosly perfetc and have nevre made a mistaek in yuor lives
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:30 pm

Frosty wrote:Bit difficult to have upgraded bus infrastructure at Green Square. Green Square offers a better interchange than Redfern. Considering Redfern requires two sets off traffic lights to cross and doesn’t have good weather protection.
What was annoying the council have been doing works along Botany Rd but didn’t think of extending the bus bay on Botany Rd. Though good luck to bus drivers inbound trying to get to right turn lane for Bourke St.

I saw the 389 9:20am working from Lawson St Paddington to BJI has been renumbered to 388.


If you want to capture a stationary photo of this lonely service it is best to not take the photo near the bus stop, there are always cars parked in the bus stop and sometimes there is no one waiting at the hus stop so the bus will cruise by. The best location for a stationary photo is at the dedicated lay over space located on Neild Ave at the corner with New South Head Rd outside Weigall Playing Fields. This lay over space is otherwise used by STA buses operating hirings to and from Weigall to Sydney Grammar School in the City.

I believe that this service originated from the former tram service, it could have been for special running, staff service, school service, connecting shuttle service or industrial service. The tram could have easily operated from the former Rushcutters Bay Depot over to Neild Ave, the nice 'tram corner' left into Lawson St and then possibly up Goodhope St to Paddington 5-Ways. I'm sure I read something somewhere in one of my Eastern Suburbs trams books that the Lawson St bus service was re-numbered to 324, I'll have to hit the books.

"The Route 229, Lawson Street, Paddington to Central Railway via Five Ways, Paddington, was introduced on December 15, 1935. The service was extended to Bondi Junction on December 13, 1937. This extension was discontinued on January 9, 1939"
http://www.waverley.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/19548/Part_2_Reduced.pdf


PDF
Report - Commissioner Road Transport Tramways 1936 - 1937
WOOLLAHRA (CORNER QUEEN-STREETAND EDGECLIFF-ROAD)-CENTRAL RAILWAY STATION. ROUTE No. 229.
On the 1st March, 1937, this service was diverted from Lawson-street, Paddington, to Ocean-street, Woollahra, and on the 3rd May, 1937, was extended to the corner of Queen-street and Edgecliff-road.


I'll re-post the tram related information into the tram section.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:55 am

Stu wrote:
Frosty wrote:Bit difficult to have upgraded bus infrastructure at Green Square. Green Square offers a better interchange than Redfern. Considering Redfern requires two sets off traffic lights to cross and doesn’t have good weather protection.
What was annoying the council have been doing works along Botany Rd but didn’t think of extending the bus bay on Botany Rd. Though good luck to bus drivers inbound trying to get to right turn lane for Bourke St.

I saw the 389 9:20am working from Lawson St Paddington to BJI has been renumbered to 388.


If you want to capture a stationary photo of this lonely service it is best to not take the photo near the bus stop, there are always cars parked in the bus stop and sometimes there is no one waiting at the hus stop so the bus will cruise by. The best location for a stationary photo is at the dedicated lay over space located on Neild Ave at the corner with New South Head Rd outside Weigall Playing Fields. This lay over space is otherwise used by STA buses operating hirings to and from Weigall to Sydney Grammar School in the City.

I believe that this service originated from the former tram service, it could have been for special running, staff service, school service, connecting shuttle service or industrial service. The tram could have easily operated from the former Rushcutters Bay Depot over to Neild Ave, the nice 'tram corner' left into Lawson St and then possibly up Goodhope St to Paddington 5-Ways. I'm sure I read something somewhere in one of my Eastern Suburbs trams books that the Lawson St bus service was re-numbered to 324, I'll have to hit the books.



The 388 was previously a CQ -KX-Edgecliff-Bellevue Hill- Nth Bondi service that replaced the Bellevue Hill tramline from Ocean St.

A tram from Rushcutters Bay to 5 Ways would have had to go to Queens Square, St James Rd, Elizabeth St, Park St to pick up the Ocean St line (current 389).
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:30 pm

Yeah, good one -- one single trip per day.

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:35 pm

Stu wrote:t into Lawson St and then possibly up Goodhope St to Paddington 5-Ways. I'm sure I read something somewhere in one of my Eastern Suburbs trams books that the Lawson St bus service was re-numbered to 324, I'll have to hit the books.

There was a 326 that ran from Eddy Ave to Lawson St Paddington via Oxford St and Glenmore Rd. I think it died with the ESR opening in 1979.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Liamena » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:29 pm

Green Square is not a better interchange than Redfern, unless you are going to the limited range of destinations towards which trains from Green Square go.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby TSE_SecretAni » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:50 pm

The Blue Mountain Line train will no longer stop at Redfern on weekdays and weekends
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:22 pm

Route 440 will have its own set down stop (after Newland St) / lay over / pick up stop (before Dawson Ln) on Grafton St facing East. I wonder when the TfNSW branding team will arrive and apply Stand S and Stand T?

Google maps has begun to apply the new information to Bondi Junction Interchange.

Route 379 - ' Campbell Pde Terminus' displays in brackets (Route 389). I think this has been copied and pasted from the current 389 timetable which distinguished the fact that the 389 stopped at a different stop at Nth Bondi compared to routes 333, 380, 381, 382 & X84.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby hornetfig » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:27 pm

Stu wrote:Route 440 will have its own set down stop (after Newland St) / lay over / pick up stop (before Dawson Ln) on Grafton St facing East. I wonder when the TfNSW branding team will arrive and apply Stand S and Stand T?


And maybe someone will simultaneously stump up some dollars to actually make decent weather shelters on Grafton St? The tin sheds used during the interchange reconstruction 1999-2001 were better than what's there now.

I suppose both cardinal directions of 379 will pick up on the eastbound side of BJI, presumably from stands D and E as 389 and 440 do now? That will be a bit confusing, usually elsewhere when this happens (eg Edgecliff in the old days) they spread them out a bit.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby gld59 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:53 am

Stu wrote:Route 440 will have its own set down stop (after Newland St) / lay over / pick up stop (before Dawson Ln) on Grafton St facing East.

Since the trip planner point blank refuses to show any stops east of Newland - do you know the arrangements for turning westbound services from that starting point? Eg would they make a new exemption to allow buses to turn right into Grosvenor then through the interchange?

gld
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:27 pm

TSE_SecretAni wrote:The Blue Mountain Line train will no longer stop at Redfern on weekdays and weekends

There are only a couple of peak hour services that stop there now. I regularly see a down service from there about 17:10 and it gets good loadings.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:27 pm

Also noticed with the changes to 534, it basically has become a short working of 533 - from Ryde to Chatswood.

There are also some of odd trips where the 533 terminates at Ryde, and then 10 min later a 534 starts from Ryde to head to Chatswood. May as well have made it a 533???

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:25 pm

Anyone else remember with the October 2015 CBD Bus Changes, they released a nice detailed A5 booklet, detailing every single change with diagrams and a before/after? I still have my copy. I've kept it in my briefcase all along, very handy to have had on hand 2 years ago. Notice how they haven't bothered here with a comparable booklet and the information for the northern beaches has instead (lazily) just been left on a completely different website? Not that bothered are we?

In addition to earlier mentioned website bugs and omissions on this thread (e.g. forgetting to say on the website M30 extended to Taronga Zoo, how could you leave that out? I'd say thats a pretty significant change).

It's disappointing to say the least, to see this laziness and carelessness seeping through under Andrew Constances' TfNSW, but it's not the first time I've gotten the impression he never really cared about Transport
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:37 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:It's disappointing to say the least, to see this laziness and carelessness seeping through under Andrew Constances' TfNSW, but it's not the first time I've gotten the impression he never really cared about Transport


Except for the extensive town bus service in Bega - sorry can't find the weblink!
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:02 am

gld59 wrote:
Stu wrote:Route 440 will have its own set down stop (after Newland St) / lay over / pick up stop (before Dawson Ln) on Grafton St facing East.

Since the trip planner point blank refuses to show any stops east of Newland - do you know the arrangements for turning westbound services from that starting point? Eg would they make a new exemption to allow buses to turn right into Grosvenor then through the interchange?

gld


I'm not 100% sure although I was thinking the same routing as you, that no right turn restriction is due to Grosvenor St / Bronte Rd being bus & taxi only between between Spring St & Grafton St. The only exception for other vehicles on Grosvenor St facing North is if they are turning left from Grosvenor Lane. All that is needed now is to spend a few thousand dollars to cover labour and materials for the attachment of a 'BUSES EXCEPTED' sign to the current no right turn sign.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:32 pm

[quote="hornetfigI suppose both cardinal directions of 379 will pick up on the eastbound side of BJI, presumably from stands D and E as 389 and 440 do now? That will be a bit confusing, usually elsewhere when this happens (eg Edgecliff in the old days) they spread them out a bit.[/quote]
Too hard for people to see whether the bus is going to North Bondi or Bronte?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:36 pm

gld59 wrote:
Stu wrote:Route 440 will have its own set down stop (after Newland St) / lay over / pick up stop (before Dawson Ln) on Grafton St facing East.

Since the trip planner point blank refuses to show any stops east of Newland - do you know the arrangements for turning westbound services from that starting point? Eg would they make a new exemption to allow buses to turn right into Grosvenor then through the interchange?

gld

Why won't it set down in the interchange and pick up in Grafton St with the other Oxford St services?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby gld59 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:36 pm

That would make much more sense (surely the interchange isn't so crowded they have to keep the "new" 440 out).

The information available so far though, indicates what Stu has said about Grafton St eastbound. If that happens, they'll have to turn at Grosvenor St (the roundabout at Adelaide St is way too small to chuck a u-turn.

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby hornetfig » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:02 pm

boronia wrote:Too hard for people to see whether the bus is going to North Bondi or Bronte?


You have a lot of experience with passengers. It goes without saying, doesn't it?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:15 pm

gld59 wrote:That would make much more sense (surely the interchange isn't so crowded they have to keep the "new" 440 out).

The information available so far though, indicates what Stu has said about Grafton St eastbound. If that happens, they'll have to turn at Grosvenor St (the roundabout at Adelaide St is way too small to chuck a u-turn.

gld

What happens with the "new" 389? It picks up inside now for city bound, doesn't it?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Stu » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:52 am

My theory about the 440 lay over arrangement at BJI.

Both the 389 & 440 will be entering BJI from the Western end and setting down at Stand G and if both services were scheduled to pick up in Grafton St for the return trip, then the buses would have to pull over to the right to lay over almost immediately to obtain the best lay over space. Once the bus sets down at Stand G, 2 x spaces are already unobtainable due to being directly parallel, two more hinderances are the RailCorp authorised vehicles parking spaces and at the top of the Eastern end (facing East) is m40 ONLY.

If buses cannot find a lay over space here, they will have to U-turn at the Eastern end and park facing the opposite direction - still inside BJI. Then to pull up in Grafton St, this will require another U-turn inside BJI (Western end), left Grosvenor St and then left into Grafton St. The other problem is scheduling - remembering that both services are 10-min frequencies, the current lay over requirements for the current Eastern terminals is 9-12 mins for 389 and 15-25 mins for 440, at both terminals you can witness one bus depart as the other arrives which keeps the terminals flowing. Bronte terminus is large, there can be three buses at once - 1 x arriving, 1 x departing and 1 x laying over. Nth Bondi terminus for the 389 technically only has 1 x against the kerb with other spaces on the right, so preferably this terminus requires a constant flow.

Based on this I think that there would be congestion for both frequent services when setting down at BJI all vying for a lay over space in a limited area. You may ask why can't the schedulers just modify the lay over time at BJI for both the 389 & 440? I think that the answer is Rozelle terminus. There are only 2 x lay over spaces there - 1 x Terry St and 1 x Wellington St. The 440 Mon-Fri is going from a 20-min off-peak service to a 15-min off-peak service and under 10-min during the peak periods. Normally when a 440 is arriving at Darling St (Rozelle), the next 440 is departing Darling St (Rozelle) so only one lay over space is sufficient during the off-peak. During the peak, Rozelle terminus requires the same procedure as the current 389 at Nth Bondi (soon to be 379) which is a constant flow of buses. If the schedulers balanced the lay over time between the 389 & 440 at BJI then I the lay over times at both Pyrmont (Maritime Museum) and Rozelle would also have to be modified which creates more work - I don't believe that anyone is willing to bite the bullet and do that at this stage.

The new terminus arrangement for the 440 is very similar to that of the current 440 at Bronte: set down facing West and lay over/picking up facing East.
Grafton St facing East: - 1 x bus at the front bus stop departing, 1 x bus in the middle laying over and 1 x bus at the rear bus stop just arriving.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Frosty » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:44 am

What about using Stand J and move 200/328 services to Grafton St. Stand J is quietest stand I’ve noticed.
Can’t they use similar procedures when there is City2Surf is on by using Stand M & J more.

I’m wondering how is Green Square station stops going to cope with express buses stopping. The southbound bus bay only has capacity for one bus. Northbound isn’t much better.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:14 pm

I informed TfNSW via FB private messaging about the lack of information about Northern Beaches, and today it has been updated. Pretty sure my submission would not have been the first - but perhaps the volume of complaints have swayed them to sell these changes much better.

https://transportnsw.info/moving-forward/bus#/
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