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2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

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2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby sydneysider » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:20 pm

Hi,
A number of TfNSW publicly available materials reference a 2017 timetable change - for example, some of the publications for the "more trains, more services" program. Does anyone know when the timetable will be released to the public, whether there will be any consultation period, and the effective date for the new timetable?

A number of new bus routes and extensions of existing routes were also announced recently as part of the NSW state budget (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/old-becomes-n ... wpxt6.html). Does anyone know when these routes will become effective? My presumption is that they will introduce new bus timetables at the same time as new train timetables so that timing tweaks for train/bus interchange can be made.

Would appreciate any information that anyone may have :)
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:10 pm

An implementation plan is still being drawn and if it is anything like last year's it was never published and we found out dates as they were announced.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:48 pm

Part of this issue would be the TT for Sector 3 (T1 lines) would only be effective for around 6-8 months.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Aurora » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:07 am

The new train timetable begins mid-October. No dates publicly released at this stage because the go-live date could change.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby grog » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:14 am

swtt wrote:Part of this issue would be the TT for Sector 3 (T1 lines) would only be effective for around 6-8 months.


Do you know for sure that they aren't planning on just running ECRL (rail) shuttles for those 6-8 months?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Scott4570 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:48 am

A recent STN, issued to advertise some daytime Weekend West Intercity services to be built-up from 4 to 8 car consist, specified dates commencing July 1 and extending through to November 25.

Can we determine from this that there is no new Weekend Timetable until at least the end of November ?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:55 am

Scott4570 wrote:A recent STN, issued to advertise some daytime Weekend West Intercity services to be built-up from 4 to 8 car consist, specified dates commencing July 1 and extending through to November 25.

Can we determine from this that there is no new Weekend Timetable until at least the end of November ?


I think that's the biggest hint so far.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Aurora » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:17 pm

Scott4570 wrote:A recent STN, issued to advertise some daytime Weekend West Intercity services to be built-up from 4 to 8 car consist, specified dates commencing July 1 and extending through to November 25.

Can we determine from this that there is no new Weekend Timetable until at least the end of November ?

I have heard a possible delay until end of November but hadn't had any confirmation so likely on the money.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:18 pm

Scott4570 wrote:A recent STN, issued to advertise some daytime Weekend West Intercity services to be built-up from 4 to 8 car consist, specified dates commencing July 1 and extending through to November 25.

Can we determine from this that there is no new Weekend Timetable until at least the end of November ?

What is an STN? I have not seen a November date anywhere.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby rogf24 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:26 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:What is an STN?

Special Train Notice?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby sydneysider » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:53 pm

Thanks for everyone's inputs. It sounds like an October - November change is on the cards, but not confirmed yet.

I'm curious to see whether this will be a 'refresh' or a complete re-write of the existing timetable. There are some relatively significant changes (e.g. South and Cumberland lines will no longer travel to Campbelltown), but from a timetabling perspective I'd imagine not a difficult change to make - based on what we saw with the extension of Glenfield-terminators to Leppington in the past.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:30 pm

But these changes would certainly NOT include all the bus timetable changes to be made over the next 12 months.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Rick R » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:45 pm

That would depend on the scope of the train TT changes and how they will affect connections with the current bus TT's. If there is no or marginal change to connection times there is no need to link the implementation dates of the TT's, but if the train changes affect connections the implemantations will be synchronised.

New bus service can be laid over the existing ones, but this is generally wasteful of resources. Operators will prefer to maximise the utilisation of their fleet & drivers by adjusting existing services at the time new services are introduced and if there is a train TT change it is best to implement them at the same time. It costs money to prepare and implement changes, so doing them as infrequently as possible is good business practice.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:44 am

So we have three announcements of 'more trains, more services' before the end of the year and this is not being done without a new timetable?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:20 am

Not necessarily new full timetables for all routes. Most of those changes can be implemented with changes to the relevant timetables only. But who knows, anything can happen.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:12 pm

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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby grog » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:46 pm

That confirms that the new timetable does retain CBD services via ECRL rather than shuttle train service, and therefore there will need to be another new timetable next year for the start of the conversion to Metro.

160 new Cumberland line services also implies a 15 minute weekend service on that line - pretty good news! Looks like 15 minute service across the board.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby rogf24 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:49 pm

T1 Western Line
— Frequency to the City doubled at stations between Penrith and Doonside with two additional trains every hour, or a train on average every 15 minutes throughout the majority of the day.

T1 Northern Line
— Frequency doubled between Epping and Central via Strathfield on weekends with an extra two services every hour, or a train every 15 minutes
— Direct services doubled to the Sydney CBD for customers between Hornsby and North Ryde via Macquarie Park

T1 North Shore Line

— An extra two trains per hour during the day for customers at Chatswood, Artarmon, St Leonards, North Sydney and Milsons Point

T2 Airport Line
— All T2 Airport Line stations will receive a minimum 15 minute frequency throughout the majority of the day.
— Frequency doubled during the day at Green Square, Mascot and Sydney Airport Stations, as well as the majority of stations between Macarthur and Turrella on the T2 Airport Line

T5 Cumberland Line
— More than 160 new weekend services connecting South Western Sydney, Western Sydney and North West Sydney

T6 Carlingford Line
— Service frequency doubled during the day with an additional train every hour on weekends or a train every 30 minutes

Blue Mountains Line
— 24 dedicated express trains between Blue Mountains and Sydney CBD


Interesting part about the Carlingford Line, I'm guessing they'll be using the section between Clyde and Rosehill as a passing loop. I wonder if they'll be getting this boost on weekdays as well. It'll be super helpful if it does. All before it closes for light rail conversion, like the ECRL.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby Free Lance » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:31 pm

interesting read about "NEW" Cumberland services as all the current Campbelltown services will be cancelled, so the truth would be "current service cancelled and replaced by alternate service staring at Leppington" once again NEVER LET THE FACTS GET IN THE WAY of a good story. Just how many other "NEW" services are replacing discontinued services?
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby grog » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:50 pm

The Cumberland line currently doesn't run on weekends, so yes these are new services.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:54 pm

THis shouldn't be a problem if there are reasonable connections between the two lines at Glenfield.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:07 pm

Long overdue services. The last time there was a 15 min service on weekends as a permanent fixture on the SWTT was the failed 3/11/1996 Cumberland Line introduction TT. That was reverted back to the old TT with Cumberland Line services built in mid 1997 :(

21 years later, we finally get an all day 15 min service on the Northern Line between Epping -> Strathfield -> City!
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:11 pm

The SMH has this to say:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydneys-weeke ... x7km5.html

Interestingly:

SMH wrote:Comment is being sought from the NSW Opposition.


No doubt the NSW Opposition will claim that this is nothing new bla bla bla, but when in fact when they presided over this, there were no actual new weekend train services beyond the ECRL opening until the current Liberal administration was voted in during 2011. Even then, trains on the ECRL were running at a 30 min frequency to Chatswood (short running) and 30 min to city, which is appalling.
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby boronia » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:33 pm

swtt wrote:Long overdue services. The last time there was a 15 min service on weekends as a permanent fixture on the SWTT was the failed 3/11/1996 Cumberland Line introduction TT. That was reverted back to the old TT with Cumberland Line services built in mid 1997 :(

21 years later, we finally get an all day 15 min service on the Northern Line between Epping -> Strathfield -> City!

IIRC, there was 15 minute service to Penrith at weekends back then, too
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Re: 2017 Train & Bus timetable changes

Postby swtt » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:36 pm

boronia wrote:IIRC, there was 15 minute service to Penrith at weekends back then, too


Correct. The 24/7/2004 TT cut back on those. That was when the drivers went on strike that year - with a driver shortage as well!

Much of those weekend cuts to Sector 2 were restored with the 2013 TT which incorporated the Kingsgrove - Revesby Quadruplication, Revesby turnback, Homebush turnback and Lidcombe turnbacks. But the Sector 1 cutbacks won't be restored until late 2017. That year also saw an all day 15 min service between Epping - Central via Strathfield on the weekdays. The weekend TT remained the same as the 2009 ECRL TT.
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