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2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:56 pm

Richard290 wrote:[Even though Macquarie Park (and much of Epping Road) is not currently on a NightRide route, the 288 and 290 run until midnight to serve Lane Cove, North Ryde, Macquarie Park and Macquarie Centre, which appropriately suffices as a late night bus service in those areas.

I agree with the argument that either the 288 or 290 (re-extended to QVB) could and should run all night at least Fri/Sat.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby gilberations » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:59 pm

Geo101 wrote:
Fleet Lists wrote:With emphasis on the word "could" - no certainty.


Olympic Park certainly isn't a 7 day a week customer base, but surely with the Parra to CBD as the end points, there would be patronage?

In saying that, there are plenty of staff who work at the venues (ANZ, Kudos, exhibition, etc) and finish late (or start early) and use the existing taxi rank to get to Strathfield after hours for the connecting trains and Nightride services from there.

I've be been involved in the past with events at Olympic Park, and we have had to organise a bus to ferry staff back and forth to Strathfield after finishing late, just to give them assurance they won't be in the lurch after work.

On the other hand, the taxi rank near the Novotel hotel is pretty reliable for late night trips to Strathfield, and with a few people sharing, it seems to work OK.


You're forgetting the very high population density of SOP and Wentworth Point, or Wentworth Kong as some people are calling it. 24/7 service completely justified
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Stu » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:24 pm

^ Maybe the valid point that you have made about Wentworth Pt and SOP (and Rhodes) has something to do with the additional services planned for route 533. I think that this route will become a full time route and operate on weekends rather than a weekday peak only route in its current format. I think the area needs a full time service to and from Chatswood.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby swtt » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:53 am

Stu wrote:^ Maybe the valid point that you have made about Wentworth Pt and SOP (and Rhodes) has something to do with the additional services planned for route 533. I think that this route will become a full time route and operate on weekends rather than a weekday peak only route in its current format. I think the area needs a full time service to and from Chatswood.

In and out of Wentworth Point as well. 401 really needs to be extended to Rhodes in addition but not run via Newington or SOP wharf. This allows Wentworth Point residents access Lidcombe as well and relieve roads into Strathfield.

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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 am

I agree with the argument that either the 288 or 290 (re-extended to QVB)


I would be all for this. There needs to be more state transit buses that cross further into the City...off-peak I'm sure there's space.

Anyways, I welcome all this news of the additional bus services. I'm particularly surprised (but welcome) that the 400 will be given an all night service - you'dve thought they'd want to dismantle that one to instead force customers to pay the station access fee.

Macquarie Park will finally get a NightRide bus - but what will this mean for the existing N90 (City-Hornsby via Chatswood)? On Thursday Friday and Saturday night, it runs every 30 minutes (up till Gordon), I wonder if the new N91 will affect this..
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby swtt » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:11 am

It shouldn't affect the N90. These are meant to be growth buses -- I'm not surprised if initially it runs a little empty. However, the patronage will build up eventually given the developments in that area.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:43 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
I agree with the argument that either the 288 or 290 (re-extended to QVB)


I would be all for this. There needs to be more state transit buses that cross further into the City...off-peak I'm sure there's space. .

For the record, I just meant the late night 290s would go to QVB. Before 11pm there is no reason for such an extension.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:37 pm

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/newsroo ... ort-budget

$12.1 Billion public transport budget
20 June 2017

A staggering $12.1 billion is budgeted for public transport infrastructure and services so the NSW Government can continue to deliver transformational mega projects, boost services, and provide the best experience for commuters.

Premier Gladys Berejiklian said, “The benefits from this massive investment will be seen around the state, no matter where you live. We want to ensure all communities receive their fair share.”

“We are committed to making public transport better for everyone, no matter if you live in the city, the suburbs, or the bush.”

Mr Perrottet said, “This is a huge win for the people of NSW. More public transport services and better facilities mean less time spent commuting and more time with family and friends.

“Our strong financial management has enabled us to invest in the roads, rail and ferries the people of NSW need."

Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance said, “we’ve already added a record 19,000 additional weekly public transport services since 2011, and this year we’ll see that number grow to almost 24,000 with more services in places across NSW like Penrith, Campbelltown, North Rothbury and Nelson Bay.”

Investment in the ‘More Trains, More Services’ program includes $658 million for 24 brand new air-conditioned suburban trains and extra services across the train network.

More than $2.8 billion will go to the revolutionary Sydney Metro Northwest and City and Southwest program, which will have the capacity to move 40,000 people around the city an hour.

Another $1.4 billion will be invested in maintaining the Sydney Trains network, ensuring safe and reliable services for the 1.3 million customers that rely on it a day.

Mr Constance said the Government was matching Western Sydney’s booming growth with $25 million invested in planning and early work for Parramatta Light Rail, and $10 million towards new Parramatta to Sydney CBD ferries.

“We’re improving frequencies on key routes, setting up new routes and importantly building the new infrastructure to grow and improve public transport in this state,” Mr Constance said.

Regional NSW is on track to seeing a new fleet of diesel XPT trains for our Regional fleet, with a $25 million commitment to advance planning and industry engagement.

School bus safety in regional areas will be improved with an allocation of $29 million to expand the installation of seatbelts to all regional and rural school buses.

NSW is again leading the country in public transport and infrastructure investment, which will transform the way we get around.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Stu » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:18 am

New XPT: $25 million just for 'planning and industry engagement' :roll:

What will be the cost of the rolling stock I wonder?
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby boronia » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:55 pm

$23M for consultants to decide that trains made by one of their affiliates would be the most suitable for our operations; $2M for the spin doctors to write the speeches for the pollies to tell us how good rear facing seats will be.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:08 pm

boronia wrote:$23M for consultants to decide that trains made by one of their affiliates would be the most suitable for our operations; $2M for the spin doctors to write the speeches for the pollies to tell us how good rear facing seats will be.

Plus $700 million budget blowout on the job don't foget.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby boronia » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:17 pm

That comes out of next year's budget.

And they will need money to alter the station platforms and tunnels because the trains will be too wide.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:22 am

boronia wrote:$23M for consultants to decide that trains made by one of their affiliates would be the most suitable for our operations; $2M for the spin doctors to write the speeches for the pollies to tell us how good rear facing seats will be.


And $22m of the $23m is for lunches.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby neilrex » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:55 am

Buses are slow. And the geography of the Olympic Park and Wentworth Point area does not help ( river and homebush bay ).

A frequent and reliable shuttle service direct to Strathfield and Lidcombe to connect to trains is going to be more useful than infrequent buses which take ages to get to the CBD or Chatswood,

More thought also needs to be given to the usefulness of buses for non-CBD centric transport needs.

Things may have improved since I last often went there, but for example, Five Dock used to have an excellent bus service to the CBD, but if you wanted to go Strathfield, or to anywhere that trains go to from Strathfield, it was quite annoyingly bad.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:56 am

neilrex wrote:Buses are slow. And the geography of the Olympic Park and Wentworth Point area does not help ( river and homebush bay ).

A frequent and reliable shuttle service direct to Strathfield and Lidcombe to connect to trains is going to be more useful than infrequent buses which take ages to get to the CBD or Chatswood,

More thought also needs to be given to the usefulness of buses for non-CBD centric transport needs.

Study tour to Perth needed.

The risk though is that it might overload an already-strained train system. In Perth the trains have the capacity and also the potential future capacity. Perhaps the trick in Sydney is to get the buses to connect to the metro line wherever practically possible. Like the Perth system, that will have the potential to expand its capacity in the future.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby boronia » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:17 am

The bridge across Homebush Bay from Wentworth Point to Rhodes has reduced this isolation.

Perhaps a shuttle bus running from Rhodes to Lidcombe via WWP and Newington would meet the needs of most locals?
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:50 pm

tonyp wrote:
neilrex wrote:Buses are slow. ...

Study tour to Perth needed.

Umm, Perth buses aren't particularly fast either. At least they do seem to have a willingness to put in a number of bus lanes there.

Are you referring to neilrex's other comments here?

Last I checked, the M61 and 607X are actually very fast by any standard for public transit of a similar distance journey, at least for journeys near the M2. The Mandurah line would be a bit faster but there aren't too many other examples. Even the Joondalup line or whatever it is called now doesn't really exceed the M2 services.

Let's reword neilrex's comments to something true. Buses in mixed traffic stopping every 3-400m are slow.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:44 pm

simonl wrote:Umm, Perth buses aren't particularly fast either. At least they do seem to have a willingness to put in a number of bus lanes there.

Are you referring to neilrex's other comments here?

Last I checked, the M61 and 607X are actually very fast by any standard for public transit of a similar distance journey, at least for journeys near the M2. The Mandurah line would be a bit faster but there aren't too many other examples. Even the Joondalup line or whatever it is called now doesn't really exceed the M2 services.

Let's reword neilrex's comments to something true. Buses in mixed traffic stopping every 3-400m are slow.

Where would I be without your thought-corrections simonl?

I was referring to neilrex's second and third paragraphs. But on that matter, I've found the Perth bus speeds to be pretty satisfying, but obviously in any city there is a limit to how fast buses can progress in mixed traffic with little or no priority.

Trains on the Mandurah line take 51 minutes to cover 70 km with 10 intermediate stops. Trains on the Joondalup line take 37 minutes to cover 41 km with 10 intermediate stops. The M61 takes between 47 and 51 minutes with 5 intermediate stops - what is the distance (30 km by google)? The 607X takes about 60-80 minutes with 7 intermediate stops - what is the distance (44 km by google)? When we know the actual bus route distances we can answer your proposition.

Incidentally, the Sydney Metro is estimated at 55 minutes Rouse Hill to Wynyard (about 42 km) with 13 intermediate stops; 44 minutes Castle Hill to Wynyard (about 30 km) with 8 intermediate stops.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby neilrex » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:38 pm

simonl wrote: Buses in mixed traffic stopping every 3-400m are slow.


Even if they don't stop, they are still slow.

Cutting out bus stops mean that the customers can't use them.

The M2 routes are exceptional because they use a freeway.

And even where short, better roads are available, how long did it take bus services to start using them ?

It took years and years before any of the buses from the Concord or Five Dock area started using the Anzac Bridge. And IIRC it took years before any of the buses started using the "Burnt Bridge Creek Deviation". Or the eastern distributor.
 
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby swtt » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:11 pm

neilrex wrote:It took years and years before any of the buses from the Concord or Five Dock area started using the Anzac Bridge. And IIRC it took years before any of the buses started using the "Burnt Bridge Creek Deviation". Or the eastern distributor.
 



I'm hoping some bus routes will actually use WestConnex M4 East from the day it's built.... there could be some clever routing as well if we do it well.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:14 pm

neilrex wrote:
simonl wrote: Buses in mixed traffic stopping every 3-400m are slow.


Even if they don't stop, they are still slow.

Cutting out bus stops mean that the customers can't use them.

The M2 routes are exceptional because they use a freeway.

And even where short, better roads are available, how long did it take bus services to start using them ?

It took years and years before any of the buses from the Concord or Five Dock area started using the Anzac Bridge. And IIRC it took years before any of the buses started using the "Burnt Bridge Creek Deviation". Or the eastern distributor.
 

Pfft.

It's because of political comments like this and the attitudes from which they come which keeps buses from using the faster roads and stopping at appropriate intervals.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby swtt » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:05 am

Well now that half the year has elapsed, what has been done?

Those that I can track have been delivered, are shown underlined. I will have inevitably missed some, so please feel free to fill in the gaps where I've missed it:

mandonov wrote:I made the list of changes easier to read:

Sydney Metropolitan

More than 1,600 additional services on the following routes:
Routes 195, 196, 197 Mona Vale to Gordon and Macquarie Park via St Ives;
- https://transportnsw.info/news/2018/new-year-boost-in-bus-services-for-northern-suburbs-northern-beaches#homepage
Route 251 Lane Cove West to City via Lane Cove; - on 26/11
Route 270 Frenchs Forest District to City;
Route 280 Chatswood to Warringah Mall via Frenchs Forest;

Route 292 Marsfield and Macquarie Park to City via Lane Cove;

Routes 324, 325 Watsons Bay to Edgecliff via Rose Bay;
Route 352 Marrickville Metro to Bondi Junction via Newtown and Surry Hills;
Route 353 Eastgardens to Bondi Junction via Coogee; - on 26/11
Route 370 Leichhardt to Coogee via Newtown and Green Square;
- on 26/11
Routes 374, X74 Coogee to City;
Routes 392, X92 Little Bay to City via Eastgardens and Kingsford;
Route 418 Burwood to Bondi Junction via Sydenham and Mascot;

Route 461 Burwood to City via Parramatta Road;
Route 504 Chiswick to City via Drummoyne;
Route 506 Macquarie Park and East Ryde to City via Drummoyne;
Routes 533, 534 Sydney Olympic Park and Ryde to Chatswood via Wentworth Point and Mowbray Road;
Route 914 Greenacre to Strathfield;
Route M20 Zetland to Wynyard via Central Station;
Route M52 Parramatta to City via Victoria Road

New, extended or enhanced all-night services on the following routes:
Route 400 Burwood to Bondi Junction via Sydney Airport;
Route 423 Kingsgrove to City via Earlwood and Newtown;
Route N20 Riverwood to City via Rockdale, Sydney Airport and Green Square;
Route N81 Parramatta to City via Sydney Olympic Park and Wentworth Point (Thursday-Saturday only);
Route N91 Bondi Junction to Macquarie Park via Kings Cross, City and Chatswood

Western Sydney (including Hills District and South West):

More than 1,500 additional services, including 11 new or extended routes:
Route 632 Pennant Hills to Rouse Hill Town Centre via Castle Hill and Norwest;
Route 746 Riverstone to Rouse Hill Town Centre via Box Hill;
Route 747 Marsden Park to Rouse Hill Town Centre via Riverstone;
Route 751 Blacktown to Rouse Hill Town Centre via Colebee and Marsden Park;
Route 774 Mt Druitt to Penrith via St Marys and Caddens;
Route 840 Campbelltown to Leppington via Gregory Hills and Oran Park;
Route 853, 854 Liverpool to Edmondson Park via Carnes Hill;
Route 859 Oran Park to Minto via Catherine Field;
Route 868 Edmondson Park to Ingleburn via Ingleburn Industrial Area;
Route 896 Oran Park to Campbelltown via Harrington Park and Narellan

Enhanced services on the following routes:
Route 614X Crestwood to City via M2;
Route 711 Parramatta to Children's Hospital at Westmead;
Route 817 Cabramatta to Fairfield via Bonnyrigg and Prairiewood;
Route 887 Campbelltown to Wollongong via Appin;

Route M60 Hornsby to Parramatta via Castle Hill;
Route M61 Castle Hill to City via M2;
Route T80 Liverpool to Parramatta via Bonnyrigg and Prairiewood

New all-night services on the following route:
Route M54 Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Carlingford


Edited: route 632 extension not yet implemented. See post immediately below.
Last edited by swtt on Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby iamthouth » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:12 pm

632 extension has not been implemented yet.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby gilberations » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:19 am

Any news on when the new nightride services will start?

I understand that the 751 extension and the 747 won’t begin until they finish Schofields Road... IF they ever finish it
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby J_Busworth » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:28 pm

The 374/X74 have recieved their extra services. Two AM inbound X74s around 7am and retiming and net addition of two outbound 374s around 7pm.
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