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2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:52 pm

Why would you want to slow down the M52 which is the fast alternative t the 520?
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Richard290 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:46 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Why would you want to slow down the M52 which is the fast alternative t the 520?

My point being is that the M52 is the rapid route that runs during the daytime, making all stops from Parramatta to Top Ryde, limited stops from Beazley Street to White Bay before stopping all stops through the City to Circular Quay.
520 only runs late nights all-night from 9:42pm to 5:47am Monday to Thursday, 9:30pm to 3:16am on Friday night and early Saturday morning, 10:15pm to 3:16am on Saturday night/Sunday morning and 8:19pm to 3:16am on Sunday night/Monday morning as an all-stops service running in lieu of the daytime M52.

In short, the M52 and 520 run separately at different times of day. M52 in the daytime. 520 in the night-time.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:55 pm

I agree - I was replying to Geo101's post.
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2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby flitter » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:32 pm

Richard290 wrote:In short, the M52 and 520 run separately at different times of day. M52 in the daytime. 520 in the night-time.


It would have been nice to see the M52 made limited stops west of Ryde with the 520 doing all stops. It's a slow long haul getting to Parra from anywhere on Victoria Road and it's the only PT option avoiding the CBD.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:52 pm

Tonymercury wrote:The M54 seems to be a great standout success of recent years, already with operating hours much beyond standard metrobus services and now all night. Considering that there were comments questioning its viability when it was established.

Passing strange to operate this route all night. What are they thinking of? Is it to meet the N91 at Macquarie Park?

Let's not forget that many, many people wanted a train line on this corridor. I think a frequent bus is about right.

What's the proposed increase to the M52? Hopefully, they can increase the operating hours and get rid of that annoying West Ryde deviation of the 520 by reducing its operating hours down to zero ultimately. You can't tell me that people riding a bus at 1am aren't able to walk 1km.

swtt wrote:I'm not quite sure either whether a route should be NightRide or an actual bus route.

You are making a meaningless distinction.

J_Busworth wrote:The 374 and x74 often get full at the first few stops in Coogee particularly during peak hour, so more services here would allow better service capacity through Randwick.

A while ago the X74 stopped serving the first stop at Coogee so that people would use the slower X73, because this is a good use of public money and likely to reduce traffic congestion. Has this thoroughly stupid decision been reversed? Just run some more X74s, as they are doing. Enough? I'd be surprised.

Geo101 wrote:
boronia wrote:The 520 does not mimic a train route, it is just a regular bus service like the Anzac Pde and Bondi, etc all nighters

It pretty much follows the M52 route, so wonder why they don't just make the M52 24/7?

Probably because of whingers that don't want to have to walk from an express stop.

Geo101 wrote:Couldn't they do the diversion (and extra stops) after hours, similar to how routes currently do.

Kill the diversion. Have you ever seen anyone get on or off at any of those ridiculous, stupid stops other than the ones next to the station? Don't be so frigging stupid!

You really know how to fail at service planning!

flitter wrote:It would have been nice to see the M52 made limited stops west of Ryde with the 520 doing all stops. It's a slow long haul getting to Parra from anywhere on Victoria Road and it's the only PT option avoiding the CBD.


Route N81 Parramatta to City via Sydney Olympic Park and Wentworth Point (Thursday-Saturday only)[/quote]

I wonder why this is only Thursday to Saturday? I think an Olympic Park 7 day 24/7 service could work.[/quote]
Meh. Try it on Thu-Sat (why not Fri&Sat only?). If it works, you can then expand it. Better than trying things which don't work. I guess it runs along the City West Link & Patterson St IIRC, i.e. through the back of FIve Dock.

Geo101 wrote:Couldn't they do the diversion (and extra stops) after hours, similar to how routes currently do.

Kill the diversion. Have you ever seen anyone get on or off at any of those ridiculous, stupid stops other than the ones next to the station? Don't be so frigging stupid!

You really know how to fail at service planning!

flitter wrote:It would have been nice to see the M52 made limited stops west of Ryde with the 520 doing all stops. It's a slow long haul getting to Parra from anywhere on Victoria Road and it's the only PT option avoiding the CBD.

That is a promise in "Sydney's Bus Future" to be delivered by Dec 2018. We'll see if that actually happens.

That document promised rapid routes every 10 minutes interpeak and 15 minutes on weekends in the short term has not been delivered in the 3.5 years since that document was produced. What is short term? It is inferred to be 3 years although that is not explicitly stated. There were also some promised upgrades in bus priority which have certainly not been delivered, likely not least because they are not supported by Parramatta member Geoff Lee.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby J_Busworth » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:27 pm

simonl wrote:A while ago the X74 stopped serving the first stop at Coogee so that people would use the slower X73, because this is a good use of public money and likely to reduce traffic congestion. Has this thoroughly stupid decision been reversed? Just run some more X74s, as they are doing. Enough? I'd be surprised.
The reason they removed the x74 stop there and encouraged people onto x73 is because the x73 runs every 2-5 minutes with many services operated by bendy buses compared to the 5-7 minute frequency using all rigids on the x74 and it was meaning nearly all services were full before even getting out of Coogee, however it wasn't enough as many services are often full after Carrington Road (first Randwick stop) and don't stop at all on Alison Road in Randwick. They need more x74s whether they stop at the beach or not and hopefully this will deliver them.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:50 pm

Are you suggesting that there is a reason that the X74 can't use bendies? Otherwise your argument is silly.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Geo101 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:18 pm

simonl wrote:Meh. Try it on Thu-Sat (why not Fri&Sat only?). If it works, you can then expand it. Better than trying things which don't work.


I suppose back on top, there is only so much money..

I'm just a punter, but also subscribe to this forum to hear all the good stuff :-)

I'm sort of the opinion with the wiz-bang Opal card, existing routes "should" have up to date data for existing travel patterns to be analyzed, and existing routes be restructured, etc, but new ones probably need a bit of good old political and bar level discussion where to spend the bucks.

As a recent resident to Sydney, I'm still quite flabbergasted I can get from A-B, at all times of the day/night by simply swiping my good old Opal card and enjoying the thousands of train and bus options.

I'm humbly putting forward my suggestions here, and truly take note of the responses!!
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby rogf24 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:57 pm

Geo101 wrote:As a recent resident to Sydney, I'm still quite flabbergasted I can get from A-B, at all times of the day/night by simply swiping my good old Opal card and enjoying the thousands of train and bus options.


Wow, a good opinion of public transport in Sydney. Where did you come from, a rural town? Any large city in the developed world has better public transport than Sydney bar the good auld USA.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Liamena » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:20 am

Passing strange to operate this route all night.

What's strange about. There are all night services on a handful of corridors radiating outwards from the CBD ( anzac parade, bondi, warringah ), and Victoria Road is one of those.

It fills in the main gaps to groups of suburbs which don't a train line and don't have a night ride bus.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:38 am

I've commented with earlier timetable changes that Sydney is slowly getting 24 hour bus services with no formal announcement; they are just appearing, a little at a time.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:42 am

rogf24 wrote:Wow, a good opinion of public transport in Sydney. Where did you come from, a rural town? Any large city in the developed world has better public transport than Sydney bar the good auld USA.


It is pretty noticeable around the world that locals often have nothing good to say about their public transport and that the best opinions come from travellers who are regular public transport users. There are many international visitors who have no issues with public transport in Sydney. There are. of course, many 'ifs' and 'buts' that can be applied to those reports, but, generally, they generally give a true reflection.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:52 am

Liamena wrote:What's strange about. There are all night services on .

Well it doesn't serve anywhere with much real nightlife. Parramatta has a small amount but not serving the city seems like it will guarantee low patronage. Similar with the n20 or whichever to riverwood.

If it is to connect with the mqp nightride,.why not one route?

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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby neilrex » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:11 am

Doesn't it run from the city ?
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby neilrex » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:17 am

Tonymercury wrote:
rogf24 wrote:Wow, a good opinion of public transport in Sydney. Where did you come from, a rural town? Any large city in the developed world has better public transport than Sydney bar the good auld USA.


It is pretty noticeable around the world that locals often have nothing good to say about their public transport and that the best opinions come from travellers who are regular public transport users. There are many international visitors who have no issues with public transport in Sydney. There are. of course, many 'ifs' and 'buts' that can be applied to those reports, but, generally, they generally give a true reflection.


Well I would tend to agree with this, but when I am a tourist, I am generally in less of a hurry than people who are busy going to work are. I also prefer going by bus so I can see the buildings and the shops and the people and the exotic cars and shrubbery. People who have caught that bus 10,000 times before might be less enthusiastic. I also tend to avoid rush hour.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:20 am

Tonymercury wrote:
It is pretty noticeable around the world that locals often have nothing good to say about their public transport and that the best opinions come from travellers who are regular public transport users. There are many international visitors who have no issues with public transport in Sydney. There are. of course, many 'ifs' and 'buts' that can be applied to those reports, but, generally, they generally give a true reflection.

It's a better test when that non-local lives there for a while and just doesn't do non time-critical touristy things where you don't notice deficiencies that reveal themselves under pressure.

I hope Geo101 doesn't move to Perth, he'll faint. Warp speeds drain oxygen from the brain. At least in Sydney your brain gets to the destination (in anticipation) before the vehicle does. :lol:
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:23 am

neilrex wrote:
Well I would tend to agree with this, but when I am a tourist, I am generally in less of a hurry than people who are busy going to work are. I also prefer going by bus so I can see the buildings and the shops and the people and the exotic cars and shrubbery. People who have caught that bus 10,000 times before might be less enthusiastic. I also tend to avoid rush hour.

It's been some decades since I've been to another city just as a tourist, it's usually some sort of business nowadays involving timed appointments etc, so I'm more sensitive to the way it all works.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby J_Busworth » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:02 am

simonl wrote:Are you suggesting that there is a reason that the X74 can't use bendies? Otherwise your argument is silly.

Of course x74s can be run with bendies, in fact for a while the 18:12 x74 was run by a bendy. R bendies also dead run between the depot and Coogee along the x74 route when travelling for m50 and x73 services. The rest of my point was the same point pushed by the government when the decision was as originally made.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:16 am

neilrex wrote:Doesn't it run from the city ?

The n20 nightride route I am referring to will run to and from the city with this change. It does not at present. The m54 will not, and require an interchange in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere really. Clear?

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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:49 am

tonyp wrote:It's been some decades since I've been to another city just as a tourist, it's usually some sort of business nowadays involving timed appointments etc, so I'm more sensitive to the way it all works.


I notice that everyone has picked up on part of my comment, but not the more relevant first part -

"It is pretty noticeable around the world that locals often have nothing good to say about their public transport"
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:26 pm

Tonymercury wrote:
I notice that everyone has picked up on part of my comment, but not the more relevant first part -

"It is pretty noticeable around the world that locals often have nothing good to say about their public transport"

I didn't miss it but I've already commented on it in the past. For example, I mentioned that when I phoned the Transperth info line once to find out something, I complimented them on having Australia's best PT system, wish we had it this good in Sydney etc, the lady was overwhelmed. Gosh, she said, all we ever get from the locals is complaints! Similarly in the past on Czech transport forums I contended with local enthusiasts whinging about Prague's public transport. What planet do they live on?

Sydney's is middle range on most factors but slow, slow, slow.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:31 pm

Again the opinion of a local. It may prove that Sydney is not as bad as you make out.
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2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby Richard290 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:44 pm

Liamena wrote:Passing strange to operate this route all night.

What's strange about. There are all night services on a handful of corridors radiating outwards from the CBD ( anzac parade, bondi, warringah ), and Victoria Road is one of those.

It fills in the main gaps to groups of suburbs which don't a train line and don't have a night ride bus.

Even though Macquarie Park (and much of Epping Road) is not currently on a NightRide route, the 288 and 290 run until midnight to serve Lane Cove, North Ryde, Macquarie Park and Macquarie Centre, which appropriately suffices as a late night bus service in those areas.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:07 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Again the opinion of a local. It may prove that Sydney is not as bad as you make out.

I've used many public transport systems around the world over several decades, I hope I have a sense of quality by now! I said Sydney is middle range, its far from being best but its also far from being worst. But it is certainly slow, all modes except for the ferries. Again this would put it in the middle range.
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Re: 2017-8 NSW State Budget - Buses

Postby simonl » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:53 pm

Manly ferries are disgracefully slow!

Sydney is pretty good in peak hour by any almost objective analysis, even if I agree with the point that it should be faster. It fails very badly out of peak. Probably behind Melbourne, Perth and certainly Brisbane.
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