NSW Rail Observations - June 2017

[Swift]

Wouldn't many people defiantly get off anyway? Australians don't like obeying rules.

[andy_centralcoast]

The trackwork posters indicated changes to the operation of Blue Mountains and Central Coast trains. The explanation on the posters was a bit obscure and uninformative. I don't recall the exact words now, but it said Central Coast trains might be operating from North Sydney. This seemed unclear to me. Were they going to operate from North Sydney via Central, Strathfield and Epping to Gosford, or direct from North Sydney to Gosford via Chatswood ?

The wording on posters was: "Trains leave from Central platforms 16-19. Most trains start and end at North Sydney, some trains run around the City Circle."

To me that wording sounds like internal staff information rather than what was actually meant to be published to customers?

The train I caught yesterday was announced by the guard as terminating on arrival at Central platform 16. Platform indicators showed Central as the final stop, and the stopping pattern on the Oscar displays ended at Central. The train then went non-stop to North Sydney after Central - this was shown in apps like TripView, but wasn't advertised to customers on the platform or train.

When I first saw the posters I assumed it meant stopping all stations to/from North Sydney - the same as when T4 South Coast trains divert to North Sydney to terminate. But it seemed they ran as non-enforced empty trains (not sure how else to describe it) express to/from North Sydney (or non-stop around the City Circle).

[boronia]

The BMT trackwork notifications I receive by email state:

Saturday 17 and Sunday 18 June

Trains to the City arrive at Central platform 16, and continue to North Sydney.
Trains to Blue Mountains Line stations start from North Sydney, and leave Central from
platform 18.

I have received similarly worded notifications in the past. I would certainly take this to mean you can travel to/from North Sydney on them

[andy_centralcoast]

The BMT trackwork notifications I receive by email state:

Saturday 17 and Sunday 18 June

Trains to the City arrive at Central platform 16, and continue to North Sydney.
Trains to Blue Mountains Line stations start from North Sydney, and leave Central from
platform 18.

I have received similarly worded notifications in the past. I would certainly take this to mean you can travel to/from North Sydney on them

That's written much clearer than the Central Coast trackwork notification, but still a bit ambiguous about whether they'd stop at Town Hall and Wynyard or not. I think many people would take "continue to North Sydney" to mean as a stopping service, because a train skipping Town Hall is almost as rare as a train skipping Central.

It's probably less confusing to advertise Blue Mountains as passenger to North Sydney because there's only one way to North Sydney from the west, through the city via Central. From the north there's 2 ways so a train showing Gosford to North Sydney could confuse people into thinking it goes via Chatswood to North Sydney and not all the way into the city. I can't think why else they'd be treated differently.

[Fleet Lists]

It's probably less confusing to advertise Blue Mountains as passenger to North Sydney because there's only one way to North Sydney from the west, through the city via Central. From the north there's 2 ways so a train showing Gosford to North Sydney could confuse people into thinking it goes via Chatswood to North Sydney and not all the way into the city. I can't think why else they'd be treated differently.

That has me totally confused.

[andy_centralcoast]

It's probably less confusing to advertise Blue Mountains as passenger to North Sydney because there's only one way to North Sydney from the west, through the city via Central. From the north there's 2 ways so a train showing Gosford to North Sydney could confuse people into thinking it goes via Chatswood to North Sydney and not all the way into the city. I can't think why else they'd be treated differently.

That has me totally confused.

Trying to describe this

CCNnorthSydney.png (145.74 KiB) Viewed 6240 times

vs

BMTnorthSydney.png (200.62 KiB) Viewed 6240 times

[boronia]

As there doesn't seem to be any specific mention of CCN trains operating via the North Shore line, it would be reasonable to assume that trains would operate as normal via Strathfield.

Admittedly the comment that trains would "depart from Platform 16 or 19" does suggest otherwise. Perhaps this was meant to read "18 and 19"??

[Fleet Lists]

No I think 16 and 19 was correct with 16 heading TO North Sydney and 18 coming FROM North Sydney.

[boronia]

It's probably less confusing to advertise Blue Mountains as passenger to North Sydney because there's only one way to North Sydney from the west, through the city via Central. From the north there's 2 ways so a train showing Gosford to North Sydney could confuse people into thinking it goes via Chatswood to North Sydney and not all the way into the city. I can't think why else they'd be treated differently.

That has me totally confused.

TfNSW/Sydney Trains seems to have passenger confusion down to an art form.

10/10 for this effort.

[Liamena]

It's probably less confusing to advertise Blue Mountains as passenger to North Sydney because there's only one way to North Sydney from the west, through th city via Central. From the north there's 2 ways so a train showing Gosford to North Sydney could confuse people into thinking it goes via Chatswood to North Sydney and not all the way into the city. I can't think why else they'd be treated differently.

Well, that's exactly right.

There is only one way you can get from the Blue Mountains to North Sydney. There are two ways you can get from Wyong to North Sydney, the short way or the long way.

And you have reported a train from Gosford via the North Shore line on Saturday, which is exotic on a weekend.

And I saw a train travelling southbound over the Harbour Bridge on Saturday evening, with quite a few people on it, which is implausible if it originated from North Sydney bound for Gosford via Strathfield, but very plausible if arriving from Gosford via the North Shore line.

If I read that trackwork poster, and I wanted to go to Gosford, I'd think that I might have to catch a normal suburban train to North Sydney, and then board the inter-urban service there. It's certainly plausible, particular since the trackwork poster didn't actually say where the trackwork was going on, at all. Rhodes, maybe ? It didn't say, at all. The instructions for intending passengers were not very clear.

[Liamena]

As there doesn't seem to be any specific mention of CCN trains operating via the North Shore line, it would be reasonable to assume that trains would operate as normal via Strathfield.

Admittedly the comment that trains would "depart from Platform 16 or 19" does suggest otherwise. Perhaps this was meant to read "18 and 19"??

Didn't it say 16-19 ?

I would have taken that to mean, 16, 17, 18, or 19. Depending on whether they were going to North Sydney, or not. Although if they were going around the City circle, they might also be at 20,21 or 22, as well.

And, that is all very well and vague for people starting from Central. If I was starting from Wynyard, on any normal day, catching a normal train to Hornsby might or might not be quicker than going to Central.

And without any information about which tracks were actually being closed, and given that weekday trains also operate via the North Shore, and given that trains from the Central coast have often been diverted via the North Shore line in the past, and given that on at least once occasion they have terminated at North Sydney, from the north, then I would not just blithly assume that they must be going via Strathfield.


A few years ago, the trackwork posters were incomprehensibly terrible. I assumed that they must have been written by a person with severe comprehension skills. After I complained a lot, they improved. Perhaps that was a side-effect of the British Invasion, it was about the same time. But last week's effort was pretty poor. Perhaps the literate person is on vacation.

[gilberations]

Fact is, they stuffed up on this one for no reason. It's never been unclear in the past. Just shoot them an email and be done with this discussion

[boronia]

It would appear that Sydney Yard (1-15) was closed. There has been a lot of OHW replacement going on recently. So the CCN and BMT services are simply diverted elsewhere to terminate.

CCN diversions via the North Shore usually only happen when there is trackwork on the Main North between Strathfield and Hornsby, and the advance Trackwork Programs/announcements usually make this quite clear. I don't think there are any regular CCN via Chatswood trains on weekends?

If some CCN trains are being diverted around the CC, it would make sense to have them depart from 19 to share the same platform as trains from North Sydney on 18 - no chance of pax going to the wrong platforms. They would not be announcing arriving trains on 20/21 as going to CCN stations.

And re another comment, the Oscars would show Central as their destination because of the programming restrictions of the "system".

[andy_centralcoast]

And you have reported a train from Gosford via the North Shore line on Saturday, which is exotic on a weekend.

This was really strange as no reason was given at all for the diversion of this 1 service only, but it was actually done really well and I'd be happy to see this every weekend. Suburban trains were held at Hornsby and Chatswood for a few minutes to let the Central Coast train overtake and get a clear path through. Journey time from Hornsby to Central was actually a couple of minutes quicker than what was timetabled via Strathfield, despite adding stops at Chatswood, North Sydney, Milsons Point, Wynyard and Town Hall. A much better trip if you're headed into the Sydney CBD, but probably not good for anyone headed for Strathfield or further west. And due to the excessive dwell times built into the weekend timetable, the suburban trains that were held and delayed a few minutes easily made up that lost time.

[rogf24]

Someone wants to inflict some harm on themselves at Strathfield now. Not good for origin game. My western line train to the city made an extra at Homebush while this is being sorted.

Good for me because I'm just going to walk home from Homebush instead so I'm not being delayed much.

[boronia]

Must have been a bad afternoon/evening for ST: the Strathfield incident, wires down at Harris Park closing the Cumberland line, services suspended on the OP shuttle.

[Campbelltown busboy]

I am currently at Wolli Creek about 10 minutes ago while sitting on platform 3 I spotted a empty 4 car oscar going onto the East Hills line why would there be a oscar entering onto the East Hills line

[gilberations]

I am currently at Wolli Creek about 10 minutes ago while sitting on platform 3 I spotted a empty 4 car oscar going onto the East Hills line why would there be a oscar entering onto the East Hills line

Test run after a maintainence fix. Quick run to East Hills and back on high speed track.

[andy_centralcoast]

A couple of Central Coast via North Shore trains turned up as 4 car Oscars this morning instead of the usual 8. As a result we were diverted at Hornsby via Strathfield - the guard said 4 car trains are not allowed on the North Shore Line.

This reminded me of a morning probably 10 ago years where the usual 8 car Tangara G set was replaced by a 4 car V set. We weren't diverted via Strathfield back then - the suburban pickup stops were skipped so after Hornsby the V set stopped at Chatswood, St Leonards, North Sydney, Milsons Point, Wynyard, Town Hall and Central. I remember many of us wishing that would happen every day!

[Liamena]

There used to be 4 car trains on the North Shore line, and I can't think of any credible reason why they would not be allowed.

[Frosty]

Maybe it was to prevent overcrowding and slower dwell times on those 4 car trains therefore avoiding causing delays to other trains.

[Swift]

Bloody ridiculous new low in a restrictive state we live in. Now trains too short are considered unsuitable for longer platforms.
You want Chatswood, not Concord!! St Leonard's, not Strathfield!!
Totally amateur rail network we have.

[Daniel]

Seriously what are you talking about Swift....

[Linto63]

Maybe it was to prevent overcrowding and slower dwell times on those 4 car trains therefore avoiding causing delays to other trains.

Seems a plausible reason. While it does inconvenience those on the diverted service, the knock on effects of increased dwell times would be felt across T1 for the rest of the peak. No physical reason 4 car Oscar sets cannot run via the North Shore with them doing so when the Main North is closed.

[neilrex]

Seriously what are you talking about Swift....

Did they announce this change at Hornsby, enabling people who needed to go to Chatswood to get off and catch another train ?

If I got hijacked like that and was an hour and a half late for work, or indeed any other time-sensitive commitment, I\d be very annoyed.