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Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby swtt » Tue May 23, 2017 8:57 am

Spawning from another discussion from the Route 530 thread:

How many more routes can still be rationalised and absorbed into other routes?

Recently all Castle Hill 610X trips were rationalised and absorbed into M61.

e.g. 272 converted to M40, 459 into M41 or 458 etc
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby J_Busworth » Tue May 23, 2017 1:38 pm

Maybe replace the 372 with M50 services given it no longer goes via UNSW.
Absorb the 302 into other surrounding routes, it is duplicated by a various routes that are quicker and more frequent .
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Xplorer » Tue May 23, 2017 2:43 pm

we could absorb 382 into 380, L88 into L90. Could probably renumber a whole bunch of northern beaches routes...
Converting the once a day 179 city to dee why only to a 178 could be a start...

T65 is just a short T66
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby simonl » Tue May 23, 2017 2:59 pm

I don't much like the idea of reducing the number of routes by creating short workings.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby boronia » Tue May 23, 2017 3:21 pm

J_Busworth wrote:Maybe replace the 372 with M50 services given it no longer goes via UNSW.
Absorb the 302 into other surrounding routes, it is duplicated by a various routes that are quicker and more frequent .

I think the m50 will disappear when the trams start running
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue May 23, 2017 3:23 pm

swtt wrote:Spawning from another discussion from the Route 530 thread:

How many more routes can still be rationalised and absorbed into other routes?

Recently all Castle Hill 610X trips were rationalised and absorbed into M61.

e.g. 272 converted to M40, 459 into M41 or 458 etc

459 happening from 4th June
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Frosty » Tue May 23, 2017 4:10 pm

The 370 Minogue Crsecrent instead just run direct via Wigram Rd. The 381 could be absorbed into the 380 no more Denham St deviation.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby simonl » Tue May 23, 2017 4:12 pm

Frosty wrote:The 370 Minogue Crsecrent instead just run direct via Wigram Rd. The 381 could be absorbed into the 380 no more Denham St deviation.

Wouldn't that get the NIMBYs to come out?
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Richard290 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:33 pm

A few suggestions for Region 5:
All current 288s which terminate at Macquarie Centre can be renumbered 296. A half-hourly 288 service between Epping and City- Erskine Street will remain as is.
Eliminate route 534, and renumber them as additional 533 trips to/from Chatswood and Olympic Park.
Curtail 545 to run between Parramatta and Eastwood only, and add additional route 550 services to serve as a replacement for the curtailed 545 services.
Make 551 an hourly weekday-only service. Same with route 543.
Make 553 run full-time as a loop between Range Road, West Pennant Hills and Beecroft Station, with an hourly frequency on weekdays.
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of 513, 546, 549, 550, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Richard290 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:42 pm

For the eastern region:
Renumber the Mascot-Waterloo leg of the 303 as 304 which will terminate at Botany at the same terminus with the M20. Current 303 will run the same route as X03, via Southern Cross Drive
Renumber 391s which terminate at Port Botany to Route 390.
For region 4. I would split route 603 into two routes - 603 Castle Hill to Parramatta, and 643 Castle Hill to Rouse Hill Town Centre via Glenhaven.
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of 513, 546, 549, 550, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby swtt » Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 pm

simonl wrote:
Frosty wrote:The 370 Minogue Crsecrent instead just run direct via Wigram Rd. The 381 could be absorbed into the 380 no more Denham St deviation.

Wouldn't that get the NIMBYs to come out?


hahaha the same ones that never use the service, complaining about a cut to the service :P
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby rogf24 » Tue May 23, 2017 8:21 pm

Richard290 wrote:All current 288s which terminate at Macquarie Centre can be renumbered 296. A half-hourly 288 service between Epping and City- Erskine Street will remain as is.


This suggestion is the opposite of rationalisation. You're just introducing a new overlapping route number for no reason.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby swtt » Tue May 23, 2017 8:25 pm

rogf24 wrote:
Richard290 wrote:All current 288s which terminate at Macquarie Centre can be renumbered 296. A half-hourly 288 service between Epping and City- Erskine Street will remain as is.


This suggestion is the opposite of rationalisation. You're just introducing a new overlapping route number for no reason.


If anything, it would be to curtail the 288 to Macq Centre or Macq Uni completely.

In the broader scheme of things that might not work out well as the ECRL is closed down in 2018. So maybe extend the Macq Centre trips to Epping as well to improve services whilst the rail line closes.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Frosty » Tue May 23, 2017 9:38 pm

Richard290 wrote:For the eastern region:
Renumber the Mascot-Waterloo leg of the 303 as 304 which will terminate at Botany at the same terminus with the M20. Current 303 will run the same route as X03, via Southern Cross Drive
Renumber 391s which terminate at Port Botany to Route 390.
For region 4. I would split route 603 into two routes - 603 Castle Hill to Parramatta, and 643 Castle Hill to Rouse Hill Town Centre via Glenhaven.


I doubt there would be enough patronage for a direct X03 during the City apart from that one peak hour run. Would be direct to City via ED or all stops from Baptist St Surry Hills. It's only hourly off-peak south of Mascot. If you want to provide a faster 303 service run it via the 309/310 routing. If you have a new 304 might as well send it to Eastgardens more useful than Botany. Botany already has 10 buses an hour from Mascot while Eastgardens via Wentworth only has 5.

Could have the 391 display a suffix like 391A or 391D for Pt Botany Runs then 391B or 391L for La Perouse.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby simonl » Tue May 23, 2017 10:06 pm

391 as one number is ridiculous! Talk about confusing, two different routes for the one number going different ways. Anyway, it will surely be changed to something else with the tram.

swtt wrote:If anything, it would be to curtail the 288 to Macq Centre or Macq Uni completely.

Macq Uni would be the most logical, surely.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby swtt » Tue May 23, 2017 10:11 pm

simonl wrote:391 as one number is ridiculous! Talk about confusing, two different routes for the one number going different ways. Anyway, it will surely be changed to something else with the tram.


Yeah they aren't even short workings of one another! :(

But that's the same logic that Sydney trains has applied with "T1". Up to five routes, all branching off in different directions. The only commonality is Strathfield <-> Chatswood!
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue May 23, 2017 10:14 pm

T2 is not much better going totally different ways.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby swtt » Tue May 23, 2017 10:17 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:T2 is not much better going totally different ways.


Add T3 and T4 to that list.

Back to topic:
The 463 is another one of such services. There are some 502s that start from Bayview Park.

But at such a dismal 2 hr frequency, is it not worth diverting the 466 closer to Bayview Park instead of running this stupidly infrequent service?

(Catch M41 for a faster ride to Concord!)
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby rogf24 » Tue May 23, 2017 10:20 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:T2 is not much better going totally different ways.


Actually, especially once the 2017 timetable is implemented, the T2 is going to be very clear. Leppington --> via Granville --> City Circle --> via Airport (or Sydenham) --> Macarthur. The only difference is stopping pattern but even then there's only 2 main ones especially during off-peak, One Slow and One Fast Airport Line (Southern Leg) and One Slow and One Fast Inner West and South Line (Northern Leg).

swtt wrote:Unfortunately some other places have also added this absurdity of a line branching out. LOHAS Park in Hong Kong is one prime example.


When I look at the MTR map, I'm often puzzled as to why they didn't just extend the Kwun Tong Line to take over one of the Tseung Kuan O Line branches although the branches are very short anyway so it doesn't impact is not as great as a very long branch.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby swtt » Tue May 23, 2017 10:28 pm

rogf24 wrote:
Fleet Lists wrote:T2 is not much better going totally different ways.


Actually, especially once the 2017 timetable is implemented, the T2 is going to be very clear. Leppington --> via Granville --> City Circle --> via Airport (or Sydenham) --> Macarthur. The only difference is stopping pattern but even then there's only 2 main ones especially during off-peak, One Slow and One Fast Airport Line (Northern Leg) and One Slow and One Fast Inner West and South Line (Southern Leg).
.


I wonder what is happening with this "Campbelltown Express" line that was promised many moons ago.

(Rail Clearway 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Clearways_Program)
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Tonymercury » Wed May 24, 2017 6:14 am

Richard290 wrote:. Current 303 will run the same route as X03, via Southern Cross Drive


That only happens inbound.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby simonl » Wed May 24, 2017 7:44 am

swtt wrote:I wonder what is happening with this "Campbelltown Express" line that was promised many moons ago.

(Rail Clearway 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Clearways_Program)

Died with the change of government.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby simonl » Wed May 24, 2017 7:46 am

swtt wrote:But that's the same logic that Sydney trains has applied with "T1". Up to five routes, all branching off in different directions. The only commonality is Strathfield <-> Chatswood!

Bafflingly, there are defenders of the T1 designation on this board.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby simonl » Wed May 24, 2017 7:55 am

Frosty wrote:The 370 Minogue Crsecrent instead just run direct via Wigram Rd. The 381 could be absorbed into the 380 no more Denham St deviation.

381 still runs a tonne of trips 7 days. Maybe just downgrade to hourly/half hourly and convert other trips to 382/380 inbound/outbound, or even better 333 outbound. At least that would mute the grey army compared to a total removal.
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Re: Remnant routes that can be rationalised

Postby Stu » Wed May 24, 2017 7:05 pm

Frosty wrote:The 370 Minogue Crsecrent instead just run direct via Wigram Rd. The 381 could be absorbed into the 380 no more Denham St deviation.


Wigram Rd between Minogue Cres & Minogue Cres is NIMBY paradise due to the fact that sta buses are banned from this section and a light tonnage restriction exists on Wigram Rd between Minogue Cres and Booth St. The section of Wigram Rd which is off limits to STA buses is due to the already narrow street having cars parked on both sides of the street which makes it dangerous to navigate safely in any one direction.

The tram used to operate in Minogue Cres and across Johnstons Creek, Taylor St and into Booth St.
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