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STA Privatisation / Franchising

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:19 am

The earliest 14.5s turn 25 this year, so I think they will take the opportunity to dice them before hand over.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Frosty » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:56 pm

They may scrap a few and keep some of the less older ones though.

What will be interesting with the 14.5m buses is how bendy bus allocations will work since on the rumours STA will loose the m30,m10 & m50. That would certainly cause a certain shakeup. Maybe Randwick handing over some it’s bendies. Since that leaves STA with the m20 & m40 cross-CBD metrobus routes.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:00 pm

Let us not speculate on the second paragraph any further. Just wait and see what routes go where before we take that any further..
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:22 pm

Frosty wrote:They may scrap a few and keep some of the less older ones though.

High floor, non steering tag, limited routes they are permitted on and parts scarcity. Out they go.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:29 pm

The latest info that I have heard is plausible.

The key points when making these decisions are:
- Current resources (drivers and buses)
- Can one region take on both additional buses and drivers?
- Can one region have a reduction of both buses and drivers?
- How to balance out the resources as evenly as possible.
- Proximity of termini to depot
- Distance and amount of dead running.
- Driver relief both current and proposed.

Route 305 will most likely be transferred from R6 back to R9 from where it used to belong to. Such a move would make route 305 interchangable with P-Depot routes 309, X09, 310, X10 & 391 or optimised with R-Depot 338, 372 & 376 or W-Depot 311.
This would free up some space for T- Depot to take in all route 418 services.

Route 418 will be allocated to Tempe.
- Services already both terminate at and commence from Sydenham.
- Services already both terminate at and commence from Dulwich Hill.
- Driver relief at Sydenham.

370 will most likely be allocated to Region 9.
- Both termini are close to the respective depots - Randwick (R9) & Leichhardt (R6).
- If the route 418 is allocated to R6 then the route 370 would have to be allocated to R9 to balance out available resources (buses & drivers).

Metrobus.
M10 will be allocated to R6.
- Almost no dead running at the Leichhardt end of the trip, only a 30 second trip from Pioneer Park to L- Depot.
- The lay over area is inside L-Depot, it would look strange having an STA bus laying over inside a TSA depot. There are no other suitable layover areas for route M10.

M20 is already from R9 so the current trips from T-will most likely be allocated to R9.
- Driver relief for P-Depot takes place at the Botany shops terminus and very rarely at Zetland.
- Drive relief for T-Depot takes place at Zetland, not as efficient at P-Depot having relief at Botany shops.

M30 will most likely be allocated to R6.
- Relief takes place at Sydenham terminus.
- Dead running is minimal for T-Depot.
- N-Depot have relief at Neutral Bay although dead running has increased since the service has been extended to Taronga Zoo.

M50 is already a R9 route and will most likely be transferred over to R6.
- Dead running is slightly longer in R6 although the transfer of this route may be to balance things out.
- The M50 timetable is minimal compared to how enormous the M20 timetable has grown to be.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:28 pm

Swift wrote:
Frosty wrote:They may scrap a few and keep some of the less older ones though.

High floor, non steering tag, limited routes they are permitted on and parts scarcity. Out they go.

Add to that massive kilometres.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Ray » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:31 am

Interesting stuff Stu - many thanks. What are your thoughts on route 530 and 303?

Do you think the M30 could go either way - Taronga Zoo feels like a long way for a R6 bus to run special.

Would be ironic that 370 was the route that probably got the STA into the most trouble, yet they end up keeping it. I know which route out of 418 and 370 I'd rather be operating :lol:
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:49 am

418 operates further west so would be the logical choice that way to go to R6.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:01 am

Ray wrote:Interesting stuff Stu - many thanks. What are your thoughts on route 530 and 303?

Do you think the M30 could go either way - Taronga Zoo feels like a long way for a R6 bus to run special.

Would be ironic that 370 was the route that probably got the STA into the most trouble, yet they end up keeping it. I know which route out of 418 and 370 I'd rather be operating :lol:


I would think that route 530 would stay in R6 (L-Depot) as driver relief at Five Dock which is what reduces the number of buses and shifts required where as M-Depot does not have any driver relief point available. Dead running is not a major issue for either depot.

The m30 has merits for being operated by either region. To avoid long distance dead running, TfNSW may have to modify the m30 timetable to allow the last service from Sydenham to operate only as far Town Hall, otherwise if this service operate all the way to Taronga Zoo it would arrive after 9pm - the other option is to operate a return trip after 9pm. Currently since optimisation N-Depot operate the last bus from Sydenham to Taronga Zoo.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Special_K » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:31 am

Have recently read the January edition of the STA in house magazine, "We're Moving Sydney" where the latest Depot Management appointments are listed. It is interesting to note that a number of managers have been temporarily placed into the 4 Region 6 depots as part of the transition to Transit Systems.

Very encouraging to see that 7 out of the 12 Depot Managers have been bus drivers at some stage in their career, then worked their way up the corporate ladder. Hopefully, they would have an affinity with the problems and issues that drivers face on a daily basis.

I'm sure that there will be a number of familiar faces emerging at Transit Systems.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Ray » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:06 pm

Just on the M30 - there seems to be a huge number of shifts that finish at the "wrong end" of the route if one depot is taken out of play.

If North Sydney take over, I count 10 "dead" trips required from Sydenham to N each weekday, on the current timetable.

If Tempe take over, I count 12 dead trips required from Zoo to Sydenham.

Bottom line - not sure how franchising is going to make services more efficient.

My maths:

From Taronga Zoo:

First trip from Sydenham arrives at 0734am. However, there are outbound trip from the Zoo leaving at 0605, 0620, 0633, 0642, 0652, 0702, 0712, 0721, 0732 – i.e. 9 trips which would require dead running from Tempe if North Sydney is taken out of the equation.


Similarly, the last trips from Sydenham arrive at 20:19, 20:34 and 20:54. However, the last trip from the Zoo departed at 20:17 – hence 3 trips would require dead running back to Tempe.

From Sydenham

First trip ex Zoo arrives at 0735am. However, there are outbound trips from Sydenham leaving at 0631, 0640, 0648, 0656, 0706, 0716, 0726, 0736 – 8 trips would require dead running ex North Sydney if Tempe is taken out of the equation.

Last trip ex Zoo arrives 20:08 and 20:28 . However, last trip ex Sydenham leaves 1912, 1932, 1952 – 2 trips would require dead running back to N
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:41 pm

The company to operate region 6 from 1/7/18 is Transit Systems West Pty.Ltd.accreditation number 43054.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Hendikins » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:15 am

Ray wrote:Bottom line - not sure how franchising is going to make services more efficient.


None of this was ever about efficiency.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:48 am

Hendikins wrote:
None of this was ever about efficiency.


Except in the spin department.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby GazzaOak » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:53 am

dead trips = effciency
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby J_Busworth » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:34 am

Hendikins wrote:
Ray wrote:Bottom line - not sure how franchising is going to make services more efficient.


None of this was ever about efficiency.


Pretty sure that TfNSW made it very clear that private operators are more efficient that STA.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:13 am

I think they were using efficiency in a different sense than relating to dead running.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:19 am

During the first half of 2013 STA put forward a proposal to drivers that would drastically reduce dead running and boost operational efficiency. The idea was similar to what happens in the private sector. Normally with broken shifts, the couple of hours on the middle are unpaid.
- 13 x hour work days.
- rostered work.
- unpaid meal break (keep the same bus)
- rostered work.
- unpaid meal break (keep the same bus)
- rostered work.

These proposed changes were dubbed the 'Rowley Reforms' and were strongly rejected by the rtbu and most probably every single driver as well. The former STA CEO Peter Rowley argued the point that STA needed to be much more efficient in order to secure renewed contracts. Rowley conceded that this proposal should not go ahead as he received very hostile resistance from drivers as he conducted road shows to each depot.


In the same year TfNSW renewed STA contracts without tender citing the acknowledged improvements about to be implemented (optimisation) and to be implemented in future.

Edit. Auto text changed the word 'unpaid' into the word 'unique'. Now corrected.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby iamthouth » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:00 pm

One clarification though, it is not 13 hr work days (ie working time), but 13 hour spreads. Ie first half sign on at 0600, second half sign off must be 1900 or earlier, but work time is limited to 10hrs30.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:20 pm

Some interesting information to this blog about:

Bridj.
- 26 x Hino buses - 2 x wheelchair spaces.
- New service will commence from 1st July 2018. Linking Rhodes Stn and Strathfield Stn with areas such as Concord (including hospital), Mortlake, Canada Bay & Cabarita
- No route is being replaced by on-demand buses although I believe that this policy may change in the future. Route 460 would be a good candidate for eradication considering that on-demand 'Bridj' will be operating around this route.

Scania buses.
- 28 x units. These new buses may be a combination of growth buses and replacement buses.
- STA may remove the K-Depot 14.5's from service. (??????)
- STA may transfer the K-Depot 14.5's to P and/or M to see out the short remaining life span. (??????)
- TSA may keep the 14.5's until the retirement age. (??????)
- will some Scania cng buses be retired?
- I think that the low entry Scania non-wheel chair models will be retained for a little bit longer.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Frosty » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:11 pm

Though what is the state of the Scania CNG buses & non-wheelchair low entry Scania's are they in a good condition ? . From a passenger point a view the Ansair Scania's are okay apart from the AC not working in summer & rattling though some of the 14.5m buses look like they are about fall apart any minute in the interior.
I can see a use for P to take some 14.5m buses since the bendies can't be used on any route that goes through Eastgardens lower level. Mostly an issue for X92/392.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:19 am

There will be a meeting occurring next week between TfNSW, STA & TSA to discuss the final arrangements regarding the splitting up of routes between Region 6, Region 7 & Region 9.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:20 am

Stu wrote:Some interesting information to this blog about:


- No route is being replaced by on-demand buses although I believe that this policy may change in the future. Route 460 would be a good candidate for eradication considering that on-demand 'Bridj' will be operating around this route.


Doesn't there need to be a change of fare policy for this to happen?

And something done about those who can't manage devices?
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Daniel » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:29 am

Stu wrote:Some interesting information to this blog about:

Bridj.
- 26 x Hino buses - 2 x wheelchair spaces.
- New service will commence from 1st July 2018. Linking Rhodes Stn and Strathfield Stn with areas such as Concord (including hospital), Mortlake, Canada Bay & Cabarita
- No route is being replaced by on-demand buses although I believe that this policy may change in the future. Route 460 would be a good candidate for eradication considering that on-demand 'Bridj' will be operating around this route.

Scania buses.
- 28 x units. These new buses may be a combination of growth buses and replacement buses.
- STA may remove the K-Depot 14.5's from service. (??????)
- STA may transfer the K-Depot 14.5's to P and/or M to see out the short remaining life span. (??????)
- TSA may keep the 14.5's until the retirement age. (??????)
- will some Scania cng buses be retired?
- I think that the low entry Scania non-wheel chair models will be retained for a little bit longer.


Initial 5 minibuses of up to a potential 32 will run from 1 July. The 28 Scanias are made up of majority of Custom bodies, so these are likely to be delayed and life expired buses temporarily extended given the circumstances.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:05 am

Stu wrote:Some interesting information to this blog about:

- 26 x Hino buses - 2 x wheelchair spaces.

How do you get a wheelchair onto a Hino? Is that via a lift?

I don't think these on-demand minibus services will really work until they start buying the low-floor minibuses coming on the market - and as these are generally too expensive so far, it's locked in a catch 22.
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