• Advertisement

STA Privatisation / Franchising

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby 1whoknows » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:47 am

So what happened in that big parliamentary transport debate on the 16th that the RBTU has been wanking itself over for the last month?? Did it even occur??
Cats are best.
User avatar
1whoknows
 
Posts: 3440
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:55 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 244 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:12 pm

There has been a rumour regarding the route 400 that was a actually circulating before the franchising announcement and since the major changes to routes 389 & 440 were done so these routes could be allocated to region 6, maybe the rumour about the 400 could be a possibility.

The rumour is that the 400 would be split into 2 x services with presumably 2 x separate route numbers.
- Burwood to Eastgardens. (400 via airport) (K-Depot)
- Rockdale to BJI. (410 not via airport and all day instead of current peak hour only) (W-Depot)

What are people's thoughts on this rumour?
Stu
 
Posts: 3652
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:37 pm
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 410 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:18 pm

That sounds like quite a likely possibility.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Frosty » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:46 pm

With the new possible 400/410 what would frequencies be like though I would expect around every 30 minutes for each west of Eastgardens. Though it would be interesting if there was 410 short workings between Eastgardens & BJ.

There are benefits for Mascot residents who will have more services to Eastgardens. It’ll be interesting if they decide to axe the 301 past Mascot in lieu of the new 400/410. Let’s hope if these 400/410 changes improves services.
Frosty
 
Posts: 1499
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby boronia » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:01 pm

Would there be any sense in running this new 410 beyond Eastgardens if it doesn't service the airport?

Perhaps a new 3xx service, BJI to the Airport would be more useful.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again May 2018
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 17236
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 1548 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:51 pm

1whoknows wrote:So what happened in that big parliamentary transport debate on the 16th that the RBTU has been wanking itself over for the last month?? Did it even occur??



From what I heard, no it actually didn’t go ahead. But I’m not surprised

EDIT- apologies I stand corrected but maintain the below

As much as I don’t like quite a few things the Libs did, I’m gunna say it, the NSW Labor Opposition is piss weak. Both Foley as Leader, and Jodi McKay as transport spokeswoman.

Ryan Park should challenge Foley for the leadership - while I already was under the impression he’s a hard working, tireless man (look at the bags under his eyes), he definitely proved his worth by managing to (temporarily) overturn the governments decision to charge fares on the gong shuttle. That was a result of his own hard work from what I see. That’s a pretty impressive feat but Murdoch media refused to give him much credit. There is no doubt he fought tooth and nail for that shuffle and won (for now).

Foley is clueless but also right wing Labor, his recent statements on Safe Schools probably just lost him more votes, McKay is a career politician (she was previously member for NEWCASTLE. That’s right. Newcastle.) trust me the only real reason she’s opposing this fiasco is because it’s in her own electorate. Did squat about free opal trips because her own electorate wasn’t hit as hard as eg someone in Penrith, and now we are stuck with an absolute joke of a fare system, criticised the B line but seems to be under the impression Labor actually did something for the Northern Beaches + failed to say what Labor would do for the beaches if elected as the alternate government in 2019

Honestly. I can easily see the Libs retaining government (in which more and more of our public transport assets will be sold off) for AT LEAST another two terms easily. Besides the above mentioned, the people will not forget the corruption of the previous labor government so easily. Keneallys underwhelming result in the recent federal by election despite all the campaigning seems to confirm this.
Last edited by Jurassic_Joke on Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scania K280UB CB80 > Volvo B7RLE CB80

Millennium > Waratah
User avatar
Jurassic_Joke
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:08 pm
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Favourite Vehicle: STA Scania K280UB CC CB80

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:30 am

Inner West bus privatisation Debate No. 2 did go ahead as planned. The joint strike force of the Greens & ALP is lack lustre. LIB MP for Drummoyne Hon. J. Sidoti was on point, his attacks towards the opposing teams penetrated their armour. There has not been any kind of expose, information, corruption, serious legal challenge or illegitimacy that will save region 6 from being taken from the hands of STA and given to a private entity.

Statements like this certainly do not help;
Ms. Jenny Leong (MP Newtown) (Greens)
The Greens are committed to public transport. When we talk about public transport, we mean publicly operated and owned public transport. The idea of public transport being privately run or privately operated is bizarre.


https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardFull.aspx#/DateDisplay/HANSARD-1323879322-99764/HANSARD-1323879322-99799
Stu
 
Posts: 3652
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:37 pm
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 410 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:33 am

Clearly Ms Jenny Leong has not a clue about how the public transport system is set up.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:13 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
Ryan Park should challenge Foley for the leadership - while I already was under the impression he’s a hard working, tireless man (look at the bags under his eyes), he definitely proved his worth by managing to (temporarily) overturn the governments decision to charge fares on the gong shuttle. That was a result of his own hard work from what I see. That’s a pretty impressive feat but Murdoch media refused to give him much credit. There is no doubt he fought tooth and nail for that shuffle and won (for now).

There were two of them hard at work in tandem there - Paul Scully. member for Wollongong too. Premier and Deputy Premier material those two. If there's to be any rebirth of the NSW ALP as an effective alternative government, it has to come from Wollongong.

Stu wrote:The joint strike force of the Greens & ALP

Joint strike force, love it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shooting each other in the foot more likely.

Ms. Jenny Leong (MP Newtown) (Greens)
The Greens are committed to public transport. When we talk about public transport, we mean publicly operated and owned public transport. The idea of public transport being privately run or privately operated is bizarre.


The People's Republic of Newtown. Buy your latte with other people's money now!
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6910
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 581 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Glen » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:59 am

Stu wrote:Statements like this certainly do not help;
Ms. Jenny Leong (MP Newtown) (Greens)
The Greens are committed to public transport. When we talk about public transport, we mean publicly operated and owned public transport. The idea of public transport being privately run or privately operated is bizarre.


https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardFull.aspx#/DateDisplay/HANSARD-1323879322-99764/HANSARD-1323879322-99799

It's unfortunate some folk seem never to have been to the 'burbs (or to other cities for that matter).

Years ago I encountered an activist who held similar views. When I asked why, he said "Well, transport is such an important thing for people" and I replied "so, what about the production of food?"
Glen
 
Posts: 2705
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:20 pm

Fascinating extracts from Hansard,Glen.Thank you.
A bit worrying the Greens and Labor Party members do not understand what will happen.It is not a sale of the STA region 6 business,but a franchising of that region .Buses,bus depots, and control of service levels,frequencies,timetables and fares will remain controlled by Government,through TFNSW.The private operator chosen will simply manage the day to day operation of the region.The sky won't fall in and all the existing services will operate.No doubt the new operator will look for efficiencies and different ways to provide those services to deliver more capacity(and hopefully reliability) to where it is needed over the network.STA are simply incapable of that.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:38 pm

Stu wrote:There has been a rumour regarding the route 400 that was a actually circulating before the franchising announcement and since the major changes to routes 389 & 440 were done so these routes could be allocated to region 6, maybe the rumour about the 400 could be a possibility.

The rumour is that the 400 would be split into 2 x services with presumably 2 x separate route numbers.
- Burwood to Eastgardens. (400 via airport) (K-Depot)
- Rockdale to BJI. (410 not via airport and all day instead of current peak hour only) (W-Depot)

What are people's thoughts on this rumour?

Thanks for the info Stu.
I think the value is in keeping route 400 as it is now.Why alter a service that has been ultra successful??.It needs improved capacity ,that should be achieved through buying bendy buses to take out the 14.5 metre Scania and the rigid buses off the service and it needs improved run times and route management (hot spot spares)to assist in reliabilty.Also build luggage racks into those replacement buses to assist airport customers .
I would give its operation ala 389/440 to the new operator of region 6.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Glen » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:01 am

burrumbus wrote:Fascinating extracts from Hansard,Glen.Thank you.

The quote was by Stu. :)
Glen
 
Posts: 2705
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:15 am

Sorry Glen.Just too late !!!!
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:35 am

burrumbus wrote:Also build luggage racks into those replacement buses to assist airport customers .

Just get a well-designed body like Volgren. I have been getting to and from Perth airport with luggage on Transperth's normal route-standard Volgrens and they're fine. Volgren design a better low-floor area than other manufacturers. All they need to do is extend that stepless gangway to the back - which they've done for Japan!

That reminds me burrumbus, you said you'd try to get some interior shots of the low floor Volgrens that Skybus bought for Melbourne Airport whenever you got out there. Have you managed to do so yet? :)
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6910
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 581 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:41 am

I was at the airport on Thursady for a few hours,Tony,,but forgot to do a run on the car patk shuttle.IToo busy taking bus photos. am going down again this school holidays-so I'll do it then.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:15 am

Whats your valued opinion on the 400 Tony ??
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:05 am

burrumbus wrote:Whats your valued opinion on the 400 Tony ??

Believe it or not, I prefer not to give an opinion on something I don't know well through direct experience. It's not a service I've used, though I am familar with its eastern section through observation. It seems to me to be like those long routes in Melbourne (901-903) and Perth (998/999) where they serve segmented demand along the route. They are best kept as long routes for as long as there is not a weak point of demand along the route that might justify severing the service and having interchange.

The fact that the only suggestion for severing 400 revolves around replacing it with two overlapping routes suggests that it doesn't have a demand weak point. In any case, the notion of one of those divided-off routes not serving the airport is I think crazy. Regionalisation is also not a reason for severing a route. Perth seems to get by fine with routes being shared across more than one operator region.

I believe the route needs to be run by artics, not just for capacity, but to introduce a third door into the bus to ease up passenger exchange. Whatever the physical problem is with artics at Eastgardens, it needs to be solved in negotiation with Westfield management. Otherwise they'll have to stop in the street (for which there is at least a bay in one direction).
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6910
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 581 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby molybtek » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:31 am

tonyp wrote:In any case, the notion of one of those divided-off routes not serving the airport is I think crazy. Regionalisation is also not a reason for severing a route.

I remember reading somewhere that the government is not allowed to add any bus services to the airport without compensating the airport train station operators? If that's true, that may explain why they are not increasing frequency for the route or if they divide off the route then one of them won't service the airport any more?
molybtek
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:50 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:25 am

Thanks Tony.I believe you are correct in your summation of the route.The eastern half of the route is busier than the western half,which is reflected in the frequency from Eastgardens to BJI.I don't believe there is a weak point along any section of the route ,unlike your Melbourne examples of 901,902 and 903.Apart from increased capacity via using artics on every trip,with as you say 3 doors with all door load/unload,there is definately a case of a 15 minute frequency on the Burwood-Eastgardens section with a 7/8 frequency from Eastgardens/BJI.I think that will align better with the trains and with the tram when completed.Hopefully can stimulate more demand on the western half.I'Ve observed it from each end ,as well as riding it,mostly from Rockdale to the Airport.Which is normally very well patronised.The Westfield stop arrangements certaintly need to be resolved in favour of using artics.It can't be that hard.Westfield need to realise how many people use the 400 to access their centre.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:33 am

molybtek wrote:
tonyp wrote:In any case, the notion of one of those divided-off routes not serving the airport is I think crazy. Regionalisation is also not a reason for severing a route.

I remember reading somewhere that the government is not allowed to add any bus services to the airport without compensating the airport train station operators? If that's true, that may explain why they are not increasing frequency for the route or if they divide off the route then one of them won't service the airport any more?

I did here something about that molybtek.I am pretty confident that's why the Airport Express 300/350 services were discontinued,aside from a slide in patronage and in reliabilty.Another board member may be able to confirm that.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:57 am

Under the contract with the private operator the 300/350 services had to be withdrawn. In its early days, the private operator received most of the revenue generated by the airport stations surcharge. But as time has gone by this has tapered off and now the majority of the surcharge (somewhere north of 80% IIRC) goes to the government.

This may have been why the previous government was able to remove the surcharge from Green Square and Mascot without having to pay much in compensation, but the airport stations were probably to big a gold mine.
Linto63
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby boronia » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:06 pm

No doubt the government's backhanders from the contract are worth more than the bus fares lost.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again May 2018
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 17236
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 1548 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:14 pm

boronia wrote:No doubt the government's backhanders from the contract are worth more than the bus fares lost.

i'VE no doubt about that Boronia !!
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:17 pm

From my observations of the 300/350 they didn't carry large numbers of pax-Average 5-15 per trip.The 300 did better than the 350.Even with the premium fares being charged,the combination of the relatively low pax numbers and STA's cost structure meant the 300/350 probably weren't making much money.
burrumbus
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm
Has thanked: 894 times
Been thanked: 370 times

PreviousNext


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Sydney / NSW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: pgt and 12 guests