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STA Privatisation / Franchising

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:15 pm

The original intention of the STA restructure was to preserve the future of STA, this is what Rowley believed in although other authorities may have seen otherwise as many believe that the real reason for the restructure was to pave the way for STA to be sold. Apparently the initial Rowley restructure has had a face lift in order to further create a corporate look and structure. There is talk about hiring outsiders to top roles due to STA staff not in possession of the necessary qualifications. The restructure will save STA money however that is just simply a smoke screen as the guvmint has publicly said that they wish to franchise the remainder of STA. I think that the end result will make STA look very attractive to prospective operators looking to expand current Sydney operations or an operator looking to enter the Sydney market.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Frosty » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:58 pm

Maybe STA should of been restructured by having as some sort of government owned investment company/sovereign wealth fund own State Transit similar to put at even further arms length away from the government so it maybe to allow STA more independence or bid for contracts in other states & countries similar to how all the state owned European transport i.e. Keolis being owned by SNCF (French state owned railway company) now bid for contracts worldwide.

I read Sydney Trains hired quite a few outsiders to come in from the private sector from all fields and lot 457visa Brits.

For Region 6 for the rest of STA survive it should off-load the worse performing routes if possible i.e. the 370, 348 onto the private operator exclusively. Routes being shared between the private operator & STA will make it very easy to a direct comparison on performance.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:37 pm

Frosty wrote:
For Region 6 for the rest of STA survive it should off-load the worse performing routes if possible i.e. the 370, 348 onto the private operator exclusively. Routes being shared between the private operator & STA will make it very easy to a direct comparison on performance.

That is an absolutely meaningless statement.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:43 pm

Frosty wrote:I read Sydney Trains hired quite a few outsiders to come in from the private sector from all fields and lot 457visa Brits.
When Howard Collins was appointed as the big cheese, he surrounded himself with fellow ex London Undergrounders in the key management positions. Probably explains the introduction of all the nanny state announcements that have been introduced in recent times.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:05 pm

Linto63 wrote:
Frosty wrote:I read Sydney Trains hired quite a few outsiders to come in from the private sector from all fields and lot 457visa Brits.
When Howard Collins was appointed as the big cheese, he surrounded himself with fellow ex London Undergrounders in the key management positions. Probably explains the introduction of all the nanny state announcements that have been introduced in recent times.

And I thought Australia had moved away from viewing England as the mother country since the 1950s. Having said that, Howard must be endlessly exasperated by what he finds here. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at his dinner table.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby tonyp » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:25 pm

Swift wrote:And I thought Australia had moved away from viewing England as the mother country since the 1950s.

Politically, but just the opposite in transport. Australia was more American-influenced (plus home-grown ingenuity) from the late 19th century. The return of British influence came after WW2, ironically at a time when political independence was achieved. It's not just transport either. American spelling was rapidly replaced by current British spelling at the time! Maybe it was the influence of all the post-war British immigration (including me, sad to say, but I was a rebel 8)). The major growth of the bus industry as it replaced the tram industry (which was American-influenced and home-grown) and expanded is a major factor in the incursion of British influence in urban transport I reckon. And now they're all over the rail industry as well, but minus the attribute that the British at least could operate some fast train services - but not here apparently.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:02 am

Linto63 wrote:When Howard Collins was appointed as the big cheese, he surrounded himself with fellow ex London Undergrounders in the key management positions. Probably explains the introduction of all the nanny state announcements that have been introduced in recent times.


Actually it seems that ST have led on a number of these measures - e.g. closing ticket offices and moving the staff out to the platforms with tablets to provide info. Collins actually claimed that this had been imported from TfL but to does seem to have been here before London.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby In Transit » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:39 pm

Stu wrote:There is a 'working committee' that will determine which routes will be shared with other regions. This also serves a crucial role in determining how many timetabled trips each operator will operate thus allowing both STA and the as yet un-named Region 6 operator to create new rosters and new shifts.


Given the tenders for Region 6 close quite soon, it seems surprising there is still any question over which routes will remain with STA and which will go to Region 6. Are you aware of any proposals to share routes? This would also be an interesting development...
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:19 am

From what has previously been stated in this thread from those in the know, likely there will be some sharing of routes. But not really rocket science, State Transit will be responsible for diagrams 1, 3 and 5, new operator 2, 4 and 6. Aside from the colour of the shirt the driver is wearing, passengers won't notice the difference.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:40 am

What are the diagrams you are referring to?
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:21 pm

Aside from the colour of the shirt the driver is wearing, passengers won't notice the difference.


Better morale showing through more pride in their work?
Having said that, I have come across some bad apples from the privates too.
Last edited by Swift on Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:24 pm

That will depend on the operator - Transdev in Melbourne certainly would not rate highly in that respect.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:40 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:What are the diagrams you are referring to?
Diagrams / shifts / rosters, call them what you will, it was a hypothetical scenario.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:44 pm

It is probably not as simple as that as some shifts could cover multiple routes where not all routes will go to the same operator.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:54 am

Fleet Lists wrote:It is probably not as simple as that as some shifts could cover multiple routes where not all routes will go to the same operator.
Not very hard to fix though, likely there will be some tweaking before Region 6 is transferred.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby iamthouth » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:32 pm

The tender closes tomorrow at 10am, will be interesting to see what changes will come from the winner.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Do we know who was shortlisted to bid? Don't recall seeing anything being announced. Presumably some or all of the usual players, CDC, Keolis Downer, Transdev and Transit Systems have thrown their hats in the ring.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:56 am

Whomever it is, I hope payroll don't have bugs like has happened in Newie.
Is there still a noticeably friendlier way of dealing with staff from the new operator up there as reported at the beginning of the transition?
Maybe they should be called Koala Downer. Warm and cuddly.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:58 pm

Up in Newcastle with the bus privatisation being one cause

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/49855 ... terchange/

Rail, Tram and Bus Union: Transport workers strike over Minister's 'attack on jobs'

Transport workers angry at the NSW Transport Minister’s ‘attack on jobs’ will walk off the job at the Wickham Interchange in Newcastle on Friday morning.

The Rail and Bus Union has said the demonstration will include local bus and train drivers, who will present an oversized petition calling for Tranbsport Minister Andrew Constance to step aside.

According to the union, hundreds of public transport workers in more than 60 workplaces across the state have moved motions of no-confidence in Mr Constance.

Rail, Tram and Bus Union (RTBU) NSW Secretary, Alex Claassens said workers began sporadically organising meetings in their workplaces following the privatisation of Newcastle buses, removal of the Newcastle rail line and the closure of the TrainLink customer centre.

:D
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:40 am

The initial press release in May 2017 advised that Region 6 operated a total of 233 routes. Since then a number of things have changed, listed below are the current route numbers currently operating Region 6 routes. Based on this information it would appear that the total number of routes operated wholly by Region 6 stands a 208 and the total number of routes which includes sharing routes from other regions stands at 235. Please read through the information and advise me of any miscalculations so I can edit this post asap. Enjoy :D

Region 6 routes (STA South).
305 308 348 370
401 406 407 408 410 412 413 415 418 422 423 L23 425 426 428 L28 431 433 436 L37 438 L38 439 L39 441 442 444 445 460 461 462 463 464 466
470 473 476 477 478 479 480 483 487 490 491 492 493
502 504 X04 508 X25 526 530 M30 M41 (X26 special event)
Sub Total = 57 x routes.

Region 6 school routes (STA South).
560s 561s 562s 563s 565s 566s 567s 568s 569s 570s 571s 572s 573n 574s 575s 576s 577s 579s 580s 581s 583s 585s 584s 586s 587s 588s 589s 590s
591s 592s 593s 594s 596s 597s

600s 601s 602s 603s 604s 605s 606s 607s 608s 609s 610s 611s 612s 613s 614s 615s 616s 617s 618s 619s 620s 621s 622s 623s 624s 625s 626s 627s 628s 629s 630s
631s 632s 633s 634s 636s 637s 638s 639s 640s 641s 642s 643s 645s 647s 650s 651s 652s 653s 654s 655s 656s 657s 658s 659s 660s 661s 662s 663s 671s 672s 673s
674s 676s 677s 679s 680s 681s 682s 683s 684s 690s 691s 693s

700s 701s 702s 710s 711s 712s 713s 714s 715s 716s 718s 720s 721s 722s 725s 726s 730s 731s 732s 733s 734s 735s 740s
741s 743s 745s 750s 751s 753s 755s 757s 760s 761s 762s 763s 764s 765s 766s 767s 768s 769s 780s 781s
Sub Total = 151 x routes.

Total Region 6 routes = 208.


* The following routes have been discontinued: 430, 459 & 430. (June 2017 timetable changes)
* The following route has been added: 530. (June 2017 timetable changes)
* Rte 437 was only a temporary service for when Chiswick Whf was closed for an upgrade between Feb - July.

* Routes from other regions that are shared with Region 6.
301, 303, X03 & 309 P, (these routes most probably will not be shared with Region 6 due to the low number of trips currently operated by Region 6)
458, 501, 510 & 506 Y, (these routes most probably will not be shared with Region 6 due to the low number of trips currently operated by Region 6)
343 & 891 R, (these routes most probably will not be shared with Region 6 due to the low number of trips currently operated by Region 6)
389, 400 & 440 W (potential for Region 6 to share these routes due to both services being frequent)
352 W (potential for Region 6 to share this route due to an increase in services under the new timetable from 26/11/2017 - T-Depot began to assist in 2014 when the previous timetable had additional services added on weekends and weekday evenings)
525 Y (most probably will be operated by Y-Depot only if Y-Depot gives up operating the scarce amount of Region 6 routes 502 & 504 services and like wise if L-Depot stop operating routes 458, 501, 510 & 506.
M10 & M20 P (potential for Region 6 to share these routes due to both services being frequent)
M50 R (potential for Region 6 to share these routes due to both services being frequent)

* Western Region school routes operated by Southern Region depots.
B-Depot: 580w 581w 595w
K-Depot: 578w
L-Depot: 565w 566w 590w 706w 707w 765w
Last edited by Stu on Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Swift » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Even seasoned private operators won't know what they got themselves into here. Running a ship in the sleepy burbs is one thing, the eventual winner of the contract will have themselves a learning curve to run this one. Then they have to try and make it profitable, and guess who will wear the brunt of that.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Frosty » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Pretty sure 348,370, 410 are shared with the Eastern Region. I know the 309 has one Tempe depot run.
I would expect m10 & m50 to abolished once SELR is done.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby burrumbus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:45 pm

The franchising of region 6,based on Stu's excellent summary would seem to be catalyst for simplfying the network's operation.From an operational and customer focus that has got to be a good thing.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Stu » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:49 pm

Frosty wrote:Pretty sure 348,370, 410 are shared with the Eastern Region. I know the 309 has one Tempe depot run.
I would expect m10 & m50 to abolished once SELR is done.


Correct about those routes being shared and thanks for reminding me about the solo 309 operated by T-depot. Currently P-depot operate route 348 during school holidays and operate the 1 x 370 trip from Green Square during university semesters only, I think that P-depot will be relinquished from these routes. There is s good chance that both 348 & 370 could remain as shared between both region 6 and region 9, especially as route 370 is yet again receiving more services in the latest timetable update - year on year growth. I envision that route 348 will receive more trips in the future.

Route 410 could possibly be retained 100% by region 6 due to the limited amount of trips (Mon-Fri peak times only) if region 9 (W) operated a few more full length route 400 trips between Burwood & BJI.
The other scenario would be similar to what exists now with route 400 shared between 2 x regions and 4 x depots and route 410 shared between 2 x regions and 2 x depots.
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Re: STA Privatisation / Franchising

Postby Linto63 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:12 pm

Swift wrote:Even seasoned private operators won't know what they got themselves into here. Running a ship in the sleepy burbs is one thing, the eventual winner of the contract will have themselves a learning curve to run this one. Then they have to try and make it profitable, and guess who will wear the brunt of that.
Interesting to see what model TfSW opt for. The last thing the government want is for an operator to struggle financially and hand back the keys. Maybe the operator will receive a base management fee with a profit sharing arrangement based on cost savings made rather than just being contracted to provide the service for a fixed cost?

Given that it is new territory for all, and the data from the incumbent of limited value, the bidders will probably build in a fair bit of fat if they are gong to be carrying risk. It's probably for this reason that incumbents like Forest and Punchbowl were able to retain their regions against bidders with far stronger balance sheets as they had a better handle on the region and thus didn't need to build as big a buffer as their challengers.

This was what happened in the United Kingdom when the National Bus Company was split up and sold in the 1980s by competitive tender. Most units went to management and employee buyouts, as they had a better understanding of the revenue and cost base. Once they were bedded down, they were quickly sold to the major groups for a much higher price creating some instant millionaires for a relatively small outlay.
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