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Bondi corridor study

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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby hornetfig » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:06 pm

neilrex wrote:Bus services to Bondi Beach used to be simple, and have progressively become more and more complicated.


If the L82/333 is considered a straight swap then what else is there?
* The reintroduction of the 381 number in lieu of using 380 for the same type of service?
* The removal of the Fletcher St deviation from 380? At that time 382 services (which never did the deviation) were essentially eliminated to compensate.
* The introduction of L82? It replaced daytime 382 services
* Terminus tinkering? eg L82 to Watsons Bay from 2002, later 380 to Watsons Bay? But weird at the same time terminuses like South Bondi have been removed
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby mandonov » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:34 pm

In light of recent service changes, I've compared the current timetable to the new between Bondi Beach and Bondi Junction. Actual capacity numbers for the regular routes may vary according to the bus used:

Sep 2018 AM Peak (7-9):
333 - 20 = 2300
380 - 13 = 780
381 - 16 = 960
382 - 8 = 480
Total buses along Bondi Rd = 57 - 28.5/h
Passengers/hr = 2,260

379/X79 - 41|20.5/hr = 2460|1,230/hr
X84 - 6|3/hr = 360|130/hr

Total Beach-Junction Capacity = 3,620/hr

PM Peak (5-7):
333 - 20 = 2300
380 - 33 = 1980
381 - 16 = 960
Total buses along Bondi Rd = 69 - 34.5/h
Passengers/hr = 2,620

379 - 31|15.5/hr = 1860|930/hr

Total Junction-Beach Capacity = 3,550/hr

Oct 2018 AM Peak:
333 - 35 = 4025
380 - 8 = 480
381 - 5 = 300
Total buses along Bondi Rd = 48 - 24/h
Passengers/hr = 2,402.5

379 - 37|18.5 = 2220|1,110/hr**

Total Beach-Junction Capacity = 3,512.5/hr

PM Peak:
333 - 34 = 3910
380 - 8 = 480
381 - 4 = 240
Total buses along Bondi Rd = 46 - 22/h
Passengers/hr = 2315

379 - 29|14.5/hr = 1740|870/hr

Total Junction-Beach Capacity = 3,185/hr

333 bus capacity = 115
Other bus capacity = 60*

*Depends on bus model; assumed to carry 60
**Some articulated buses announced for the AM peak; actual capacity will be higher

Summary:

Passenger capacity change September-October:
AM = -107.5/hr
PM = -365/hr

Number of services/vehicles September-October:
AM = -9.5/hr
PM = -7.5/hr
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:42 am

Good analysis thanks mandonov.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby Frosty » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:01 am

I'd be interested if there is an increase or decrease in overall buses in the Bondi area including Old & New South Head Rd Corridors, 360 changes + M40.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby swtt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:44 am

Also, the capacity might be higher now, but how many people actually use the 381/2 from Beach to Junction (vice versa)?

I think most people are basically sheep in behaviour and would have been awaiting a 333 or 380 only. Consolidation into the 333/380 would probably be an exercise in utilising that capacity even better.

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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby grog » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:46 am

In this corridor, I see there being 2 main issues to solve:

1. Peak travel
2. Summer beach travel

For the first, there aren't many options to reduce the demand from cars in the area (you'll see what this means in a second) so road space reallocation is probably the best bet. Even a T2 or T3 lane would probably be helpful IF enforced properly.

For the second option, however, I wonder if anyone has considered placing a surcharge on visitor parking, taxi and uber trips to the Bondi area during the peak summer season? It seems to me that this corridor is semi-unique in that it is a fairly self contained destination at the end of a congested road, a lot of the traffic is likely to be beach visitors, and if we took measures like this it could act as a de-facto congestion charge for the area?

I'm not saying this is the answer, or even a workable solution, but it's an idea I haven't seen mentioned so I wanted to throw it out there.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby swtt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:00 am

Now that grog has proposed the de facto congestion tax, may as well take it further!

Turn Bondi Road into one way peak direction during the summer Beach visit peak periods

Morning: one way, towards Beach. Depart beach via the northern end and usurp unused road capacity there.

Afternoon : one way, towards Bondi Jn. Enter beach via the northern end.



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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:11 am

swtt wrote:Now that grog has proposed the de facto congestion tax, may as well take it further!

Turn Bondi Road into one way peak direction during the summer Beach visit peak periods

Morning: one way, towards Beach. Depart beach via the northern end and usurp unused road capacity there.

Afternoon : one way, towards Bondi Jn. Enter beach via the northern end.

Actually need to constrict car traffic, not make more room for it. A bus lane each way along Bondi Rd is the trick!
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby swtt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:20 am

tonyp wrote:Actually need to constrict car traffic, not make more room for it. A bus lane each way along Bondi Rd is the trick!


Wouldn't disagree one little bit. It should be a 24 hour bus lane.

The almond flavoured, latte sipping locals and the vocal business owners will think that Bondi Road was constructed for them to PARK their cars on! Just have a look at how difficult it has been for the RMS to get a few clearways through......with self entitled business owners thinking the road is for their customers to park on.... :(

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/projects/sydn ... index.html
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby grog » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:23 am

Absolutely, but thinking about the political impact of removing parking on Bondi Rd on the weekends vs putting a surcharge on ‘visitors’ to reduce car traffic, a surcharge seems like a more politically possible second best option.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:35 am

Bondi Rd suffers from not having any scope for creating parking at the rear of properties which is the solution along many Sydney strips, but I note that the biggest retailer from which people might need to take away goods in bulk, Kemenys, has at least a small carpark at its rear. I think this is one of those strips where people have to expect to visit by bus or on foot. You don't expect to be able to pull up in front of a shop in Kings Cross, the centre of Parramatta, Pitt St Sydney etc. Should Bondi Rd be any different?
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby hornetfig » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:10 pm

There's also an underground council carpark (formerly an open air carpark) accessible from Wellington Street. That's probably not quite adequate, but use the 20 year vacant block (former Shell service station -- give the developer what they want: more storeys in exchange for 60 or 80 public parking spaces) in that section and something smaller closer to Denham Street and you have enough spaces for the commercial centre.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:40 pm

hornetfig wrote:There's also an underground council carpark (formerly an open air carpark) accessible from Wellington Street. That's probably not quite adequate, but use the 20 year vacant block (former Shell service station -- give the developer what they want: more storeys in exchange for 60 or 80 public parking spaces) in that section and something smaller closer to Denham Street and you have enough spaces for the commercial centre.

If the state government had its act together, it could package this and transit lanes together with the project. They certainly haven't put as much effort into it as the northern beaches corridor.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby Swift » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:36 pm

It seemed to do okay in 1976.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:55 am

Swift wrote:It seemed to do okay in 1976.
https://youtu.be/GPxBA6P4ZsY

It's interesting that they were running Atlanteans (and presumably before them the old deckers) along a route that is now claimed to be non-compliant for double deckers. Probably trying to worm their way out of the previous statements that everything in Sydney was going to be B line deckers and artics were going, after realising that this corridor was one best operated by artics.

Everybody seemed to prefer to be downstairs in this bus, which they would if they were only going a short distance. The bus driver's very 70s presentation is a sight to behold. I wonder if bell-bottom pants were part of the uniform then? 8)
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby Geo101 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:39 am

grog wrote:Absolutely, but thinking about the political impact of removing parking on Bondi Rd on the weekends vs putting a surcharge on ‘visitors’ to reduce car traffic, a surcharge seems like a more politically possible second best option.


If that's too daunting, to find out what happens when sensible choices are made in regard to parking v's clearways, instigate a trial on King st through Newtown.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby hornetfig » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:02 pm

tonyp wrote:It's interesting that they were running Atlanteans (and presumably before them the old deckers) along a route that is now claimed to be non-compliant for double deckers.


Is it? City Sightseeing/BigBus/whatever did it no problem.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby boronia » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:21 pm

Maybe too many trees and obstacles in the kerb lanes? Big Bus etc wouldn't be pulling up at stops along the way
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:57 am

Now that the new services are up and running (333 as close as 2 min headways I notice, better than the 3 min advertised), it's interesting to look back at what the Bondi Rd tramline was moving, for which Keenan has quite a bit of statistical detail in his "Eastern Lines" book.

Basically, the tram journey time was the same between Bondi Jct and Campbell Pde ( a bit under 15 min) but with twice as many stops as the 333, not all of them compulsory though. Surveys taken of the pm peak in 1939 (two hours from 1615 to 1815) show trams about every 1 to 4 minutes between Bondi Jct and Bondi Beach, almost all of them 250-passenger sets. A number of trams terminated at Denham St and typical loads were in the order of about 150 to over 200 people. Deducting the short-workings to Denham St, I'd estimate that something up to 7,000 passengers per hour were being carried on the trams in one direction between Bondi Jct and Bondi Beach.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:21 am

Some early 20th century scenes of Bondi Rd. Any photos of the new artics in service on 333 would be appreciated.

Image

Image

Image

The other alternative:

Image
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby rogf24 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:20 pm

I was there checking it out earlier around mid-morning but didn't take any pictures. It didn't seem that interesting imo, just more 333s and artic buses. The most exciting part was actually using it rather than seeing it otherwise it's more or less the same.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:46 am

tonyp wrote:I would like to see a train line though.

Interesting that you say that.

From the document in the link
"Do Nothing – continue open access for motor vehicles until congestion becomes unmanageable"

And who's fault was it in the first place for not wanting to extend the rail line to Bondi/Bondi Beach?
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby Swift » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:15 am

Newcastle Flyer wrote:
tonyp wrote:I would like to see a train line though.

Interesting that you say that.

From the document in the link
"Do Nothing – continue open access for motor vehicles until congestion becomes unmanageable"

And who's fault was it in the first place for not wanting to extend the rail line to Bondi/Bondi Beach?

Local actors, artists and other sundry pretentious pull artists who wanted THEIR locality to themselves even though it it's bigger than them and belongs to everyone.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:53 am

Newcastle Flyer wrote:
tonyp wrote:I would like to see a train line though.

Interesting that you say that.

If you're referring to the Newcastle rail line, totally different situations.
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Re: Bondi corridor study

Postby boronia » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:09 am

One mistake was wanting to put the terminus right on the beach.

It would have been better locating it around Glenayr Ave, Six Ways.

1. Would better suit more local residents (who should be the primary consideration)
2. Would facilitate any future extensions (as per Bradfield's original concepts)
3. Would benefit local businesses along Hall St, with passing tourists to/from the beach. It is not an unreasonable distance to walk (compare with Cronulla or Manly)
4. Less engineering problems relating to water tables.
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