$1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

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Jurassic_Joke
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvbN5QUSVU8

Yep the new trains sound the exact same as the old Waratahs. Nothing exciting here.

In fact, it appears to be the exact same train in and out, (with the only difference being revenue-raising advert screens) - you don't really make a product NEW by cutting and pasting the same thing, and then applying some orange stickers on top - it's still the same thing underneath.

I was hoping for something a bit more new.

I mean, I know somewhere on this forum way back in early 2010, there was a thread comparing the Millenium's and then-new Waratah's, and the differences were found to be relatively minimal and I didn't think the gap of differences could get any smaller! Or at least I was satisfied the Waratah back then was then a new, different product.

Perhaps on the other hand, I'm hopeful they'll introduce newer, more natural sounding voice announcements (think of the STA Metrobus eg), and actually utilise the new displays to their full potential. Maybe the seats also aren't as stiff? Lets keep our fingers crossed here.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Swift »

Feels like a throwback to when they seemed to be forever delivering Tangaras, 1989 -1996.
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boronia
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by boronia »

Probably cheaper to continue with more of the same, no new development costs to worry about for what is a relatively small order.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Oh I know that, I just thought that "that ship had sailed" when it had come to ordering new Waratah's, as the option for a follow-up wasn't taken up when Glad was in charge. Given the Waratah was designed....how long ago now? 10 years roughly, id've thought they'd have moved on.

It's kind of like with Siemens; you can't order new Combino trams anymore, the model simply isn't produced anymore. It's completely superseded by its successor, the Avenio tram
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Swift »

I don't know, I for one can't wait to catch my first orange version of the Waratah, just to see what differences I can notice. Plus I feel a certain comfort in seeing another batch of this familiar train when so much keeps changing in Sydney.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by BroadGauge »

Jurassic_Joke wrote:It's kind of like with Siemens; you can't order new Combino trams anymore, the model simply isn't produced anymore. It's completely superseded by its successor, the Avenio tram
Completely different as the Waratahs are not an off-the-shelf design. Why reinvent the wheel anyway?

Even for rollingstock that is off the shelf, money talks ;). Look at for instance the X'Trapolis 100 trains in Melbourne, the first sets entered service between 2002 and 2004, the second batch of orders started being delivered from 2009 onwards and are still being produced in 2018, nearly 16 years after the "original" sets that they run coupled to first arrived! :twisted:
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Transtopic »

BroadGauge wrote:
Jurassic_Joke wrote:It's kind of like with Siemens; you can't order new Combino trams anymore, the model simply isn't produced anymore. It's completely superseded by its successor, the Avenio tram
Completely different as the Waratahs are not an off-the-shelf design. Why reinvent the wheel anyway?
Exactly. The Coalition government erred in not taking up the original option for additional Waratahs
which would have seen the S sets retired much earlier. It makes complete sense to continue with a successful design without the development costs of a completely new train. Can anyone suggest how it could be improved? Hopefully the government won't be so tardy in exercising its option for additional B sets.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by swtt »

Don't forget their had to bail out Downer EDI on the first order after the GFC kicked in.

So there was an inherent problem already - a contract which needed an additional injection of funds.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by mandonov »

Jurassic_Joke wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvbN5QUSVU8

Yep the new trains sound the exact same as the old Waratahs. Nothing exciting here.

In fact, it appears to be the exact same train in and out, (with the only difference being revenue-raising advert screens) - you don't really make a product NEW by cutting and pasting the same thing, and then applying some orange stickers on top - it's still the same thing underneath.

I was hoping for something a bit more new.

I mean, I know somewhere on this forum way back in early 2010, there was a thread comparing the Millenium's and then-new Waratah's, and the differences were found to be relatively minimal and I didn't think the gap of differences could get any smaller! Or at least I was satisfied the Waratah back then was then a new, different product.

Perhaps on the other hand, I'm hopeful they'll introduce newer, more natural sounding voice announcements (think of the STA Metrobus eg), and actually utilise the new displays to their full potential. Maybe the seats also aren't as stiff? Lets keep our fingers crossed here.
They continually said that they're 90% the same to the A's, so I'm not sure what you expected. They have a new aircon system too for what it's worth.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by homebush »

tfnsw posted this promo for the new trains on their youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ayBGq42RYA
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Swift »

So the orange front is wrap applied later. I see wrapping of the A sets in the near future.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Daniel »

Newcastle .
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by moa999 »

Looks like both the front and middle side panels were wrapped to give it a different look
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by boronia »

mandonov wrote:
Jurassic_Joke wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvbN5QUSVU8

Yep the new trains sound the exact same as the old Waratahs. Nothing exciting here.

In fact, it appears to be the exact same train in and out, (with the only difference being revenue-raising advert screens) - you don't really make a product NEW by cutting and pasting the same thing, and then applying some orange stickers on top - it's still the same thing underneath.

I was hoping for something a bit more new.

I mean, I know somewhere on this forum way back in early 2010, there was a thread comparing the Millenium's and then-new Waratah's, and the differences were found to be relatively minimal and I didn't think the gap of differences could get any smaller! Or at least I was satisfied the Waratah back then was then a new, different product.

Perhaps on the other hand, I'm hopeful they'll introduce newer, more natural sounding voice announcements (think of the STA Metrobus eg), and actually utilise the new displays to their full potential. Maybe the seats also aren't as stiff? Lets keep our fingers crossed here.
They continually said that they're 90% the same to the A's, so I'm not sure what you expected. They have a new aircon system too for what it's worth.
Nothing wrong with existing a/c that I am aware of?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Lets be real, when the Waratahs were new, despite the "smart" a/c being marked as a selling point....it was a complete joke. I think they thought more on how to use less power, than passenger comfort. The Milleniums easily still have the most powerful aircon.

In winter, when the Waratahs were new, I remember seeing all the hairs on my arms stand up in response to how cold it was inside the train, and likewise in summer, I still have recollections of the cooling being very stingy, and at times, inadequate. The train would often smell like a pet shop because of people sweating and no open windows.

Only in the past year or two have they actually fixed it so its actually warm in winter, and cool on warm days. Now its good, I admit.

So I'm curious to see where they've gone with the "new a/c" on the B sets.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Swift »

At least with the S sets, you have the option to open windows, although those windows you pull in at the top don't allow a breeze to hit you directly, like their original Beclawat windows where you had many sliding glass options which gave you some relief when the train was moving.
Gladys pushes the line of 100% air conditioned fleet with the retirement of the S sets, but that is really a misnomer when comfort levels are no better or worse when you are running a percentage of cars in service with inadequate temperature control or, worse, not running at all.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by GazzaOak »

Jurassic_Joke wrote:Lets be real, when the Waratahs were new, despite the "smart" a/c being marked as a selling point....it was a complete joke. I think they thought more on how to use less power, than passenger comfort. The Milleniums easily still have the most powerful aircon.

In winter, when the Waratahs were new, I remember seeing all the hairs on my arms stand up in response to how cold it was inside the train, and likewise in summer, I still have recollections of the cooling being very stingy, and at times, inadequate. The train would often smell like a pet shop because of people sweating and no open windows.

Only in the past year or two have they actually fixed it so its actually warm in winter, and cool on warm days. Now its good, I admit.

So I'm curious to see where they've gone with the "new a/c" on the B sets.
I think its was just a testing phrase with the aircon to see how its would balance out... so i can see that phrase of trying out the aircon before they can set it up...
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Swift »

I can understand them tweaking the balance between comfort and power savings with the high power consumption of modern sets, and the cost of electricity these days.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by boronia »

Leaving the doors open for extended periods at terminus stations doesn't help.

But I often used them as "waiting rooms" at Penrith on hot days, while waiting for up BMT services to Central.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Stonesourscotty »

Has B2 left Cardiff Yet?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by boronia »

Someone reported earlier in the week that B2 had been "delivered". Not sure if that was to Cardiff or Auburn. There is usually a few weeks' preparation up there before delivery.

But I noticed TWO diesels at AMF this afternoon. Maybe they are going to pick it up?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Tonymercury »

boronia wrote:
But I noticed TWO diesels at AMF this afternoon. Maybe they are going to pick it up?
Apparently there was a transfer of B2 recently to Auburn and B3 was delivered to Cardiff on Wednesday or Thursday.

Will Sydney Trains soon have more B numbers than the ABC?

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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by BroadGauge »

Swift wrote:Gladys pushes the line of 100% air conditioned fleet with the retirement of the S sets, but that is really a misnomer when comfort levels are no better or worse when you are running a percentage of cars in service with inadequate temperature control or, worse, not running at all.
Try riding on an S set early on a winter's morning. Nothing more fun than sitting in a drafty tin can without any form of heating for an hour when you've forgotten to bring a coat.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by Stonesourscotty »

I noted B2 at Cardiff last Friday (I was up there for the rabbitohs game) but not seen b1 or 2 since.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Post by boronia »

B1 has been inside the AMF building most mornings this week. Presumably it goes out for testing overnight?
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