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$1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

$1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:46 am

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/17-billion-in ... t1e9a.html

yeah yeah ok, this time, please:

-Use more than 1mm of padding in the seats (like the M sets)
-The aircon of your predecessor (aka M sets)
-Fix the legroom its attrocious, i dont know, just get rid of the bar underneath the seat!

And I think we're all good :) Thats what I'd like to see. The current Waratah is a bit lacking in terms of comfort itself, as much as it has air-con.

What about S sets? Isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, but does anyone else think this will finally mean the end of the S sets? 24 8car trains left, 24 8car Waratahs ordered... It does say the new trains will be used to boost capacity, but I think this might really mean the end of the trusty veteran trainsets
Last edited by Jurassic_Joke on Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:23 am

Downer are saying that the order is for 24 sets plus 45 options-

http://www.downergroup.com/Investors-an ... tract.aspx
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:31 am

The article says 24 new sets ordered, not 20. So that should replace the S sets 1 for 1.

And don't forget that H sets will be cascaded down to suburban working once the new intercity sets hit the road.

As for "growth" capacity, just how many more trains can be put into the network in peak hours?

But all this will be around 5 years away.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:34 am

Apologies, my bad, I got that wrong indeed, 24 sets ordered! I'll edit my main post,

Yeah thats true, I thought it was the intention of the OSCars to replace the S sets.

In the link TonyMercury has provided, I see the new trains aren't actually called Waratahs but rather "Sydney Growth Trains" and have "more then 90% similarity". Interesting. I hope this does mean the worst aspects of the current Waratah are changed up.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:42 am

I think the original Waratah order was based on the premise of Oscars eventually replacing the remaining S sets.

But once that happens, there will be the issue of replacing the K/C sets
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:47 am

10% different, so maybe to be "B" sets? 8)
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Punchbowl Tiger Cub » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:52 am

Yet another project where it is not being built in Australia but built overseas - built in China, maintained in Sydney
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:56 am

Looks like we will get the new timetable from late 2017...

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/project ... e-services
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:19 pm

Here's an interesting, albeit unsubstantiated, tidbit from reddit:
Furthermore, although unfortunately I cannot back myself up with evidence as I'd like to, one of my friends who is a Sydney Trains driver has told me theres plans for a rolling stock reshuffle in October 2017: Waratahs to operate the entire T1 100%, M sets to replace the silver sets on the Cumberland line, and I think he also said T sets are coming back on T3.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:24 pm

An interesting, low quality mockup of a new feature on the new trains:
Image
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby grog » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:25 pm

It would make sense and it was mentioned in Sydney's Rail Future - they should be able to improve timetable running times and performance by having the entire line run by the best performing rollingstock.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:06 pm

What's the point if they have the worst performing rolling stock sitting at stations to cut out slack time.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby simonl » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:28 pm

The point is to even out the amount of fat in the timetable.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Transtopic » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:28 pm

Funny how these announcements always pop up when the government is getting bad press. Coincidence?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:53 pm

boronia wrote:10% different, so maybe to be "B" sets? 8)

Could call it Banksia too, which is a relative to the Waratah.
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AqRe: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Frosty » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:52 pm

If M sets are moving to Cumberland does that mean more silver sets on the T2 Lines. Interesting about T sets on T3 which I'm guessing mean T2 as some T3 trains end up as T2. Would be Hornsby sets or Mortdale sets.

One thing I don't know if possible is to remove interconnecting doors and widen the staircase. I'm also guessing this order would help free up sets maybe for the Tangara refurb program.


C sets would be the first to go smaller fleet but has commonality with Tangara trains. But what about the electronics on board must be getting on in age.

Ideally once the Oscar trains are cascaded they would be really good on Airport Line trains with the luggage along with the ex G sets.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:08 pm

These new trains aren't due for service until 2018, so the Tangara upgrade would be well on its way by then.

The way I see it is like this: A set 2.0 replaces the remaining S sets; allowing the New Intercity Fleet to focus on V set retirement; following which the H set suburban cascade will be used to replace C's and K's; growth will be catered to with the 45 train option for A 2.0.

By the time all of that is rolled out a T set replacement will be needed.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby boronia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:15 pm

One thing I don't know if possible is to remove interconnecting doors and widen the staircase. I'm also guessing this order would help free up sets maybe for the Tangara refurb program.


Removing the doors may not be possible if they are required for smoke "compartmentalisation" in the event of a fire.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby Frosty » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:23 pm

Watched a 7news report on the new trains. The AWMU complaining about local content. How come Victoria can do it but we can't or is the cost far too high to do it locally. I have feeling there is going to be some headline saying driver shortage or lack storage for the trains.

How old will this Waratah design by the time it's finished. Waratah train is like the Sydney equivalent of the Alstom X'trapolis in Melbourne.

Have people stand in the gangways of trains only have the doors in operation in emergency. Some people stand in the gangways of Waratah's & M sets during peak hour now.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby rogf24 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:49 pm

The renderings look like there are two CCTV cameras covering almost the same angle. One below the monitor in the bezel and another one to the right of the monitor.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:11 am

It's a very crude rendering used to show off the screen, so don't take tiny details like that as fact.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby grog » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:27 am

boronia wrote:What's the point if they have the worst performing rolling stock sitting at stations to cut out slack time.


I don't understand what you are saying here.

If the mentioned rumour is true the aim of having an all A set timetable on T1 would be to have the better acceleration and wider doors/lower dwell able to improve reliability at 20tph while also cutting fat from timetable due to consistent performance and allowing a faster journey time.

This was foreshadowed in Sydney's Rail Future which mentioned dedicated rolling stock time for different lines.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:28 am

Question for anyone who might know; how many trains are needed during peak hour for the full T1 services?
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby grog » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:35 pm

Very crude measure, just as a back of the envelope worst case straw man, but let's say each run takes 2 hours and you run 20tph in each direction during the 2 hour peak. That would require about 80 trains - which fits well with the A set totals.
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Re: $1.7 billion order for new Waratah trains signed

Postby mandonov » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:03 pm

But did you include the Northern Line in that also, or do we think the Northern/North Shore loop will continue to be a mixed fleet due to the Hornsby depot?
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