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East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby Stu » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:09 pm

I wonder what ever happened to this proposal? This proposals is dated 09/02/2011 which is when Labor were in control of NSW and shortly before the LIB goverment took control.

http://www.historyworks.com.au/EastWest%20Light%20Rail%20Scheme.pdf
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:34 pm

That wasn't written by our tonyp by any chance?
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby jpp42 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:30 pm

Hmm, this author seems to rather suspiciously have similar expertise to "our" tonyp...

To the OP - this isn't any kind of government proposal, it's an unsolicited paper. Thus nothing has happened per se, nor would it realistically be expected to.

I do find the designation of "Central Industrial Area" interesting. These days it's more like "Central Aprtments area." But that just increases the need for something like this...
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:01 am

It was actually discussed here at the time.
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby tonyp » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:12 am

Fleet Lists wrote:That wasn't written by our tonyp by any chance?

It's like somebody coming across a pile of your photos from your awkward teenage years that you didn't want anybody to see and flashing them around! Well I guess if I put it on the web it must have been intended to be seen. :roll:

I'm hoping Tonymercury is saving these things as I'm not going to be able to keep paying to maintain the web platform forever. :wink:

It was a submission to Gladys back in 2011 to try to tidy up Ecotransit's pretty underdeveloped scheme for an east-west tram link to justify extension of IWLR. I prefer to give priority to radial tram projects though. Cross-regional links are really bus work but it would help to make those bus links work much better than they do now.

Since 2011, the Dulwich Hill-Sydenham section will be taken care of by the metro and for these rest I've always preferred that the ESR be extended as a metro into a loop from BJ via Kingsford, across to Sydenham and back up to Redfern-Martin Place etc. Fat chance of this happening as the Randwick CSELR branch, which it would do the job of, is now underway.
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby Frosty » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:38 am

Well isn't this east west light rail thing a modified route 418. Like the 418 literally follows the corridor after Sydenham and before it in a way from Dulwich Hill following Marrickville Rd. The 418 runs down Gardeners Rd after Mascot Station through Kingsford and onto Prince Of Wales & UNSW. Then onto Bondi Jn. The 418 is only half hourly.

If there was a tram down Gardeners Rd it might as well be for the replacement of the 343.
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby tonyp » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:16 am

Frosty wrote:Well isn't this east west light rail thing a modified route 418. Like the 418 literally follows the corridor after Sydenham and before it in a way from Dulwich Hill following Marrickville Rd. The 418 runs down Gardeners Rd after Mascot Station through Kingsford and onto Prince Of Wales & UNSW. Then onto Bondi Jn. The 418 is only half hourly.

Exactly - but to Ecotransit that's a diesel bus.

My take on it is that you need to upgrade that bus service significantly with all the usual measures: greater frequency, traffic lane and traffic light priority, buses designed suitable for such a service (100% low floor, multi-door entry), preferably electric buses of some type if possible. Get it all working properly thus and you wouldn't need to consider trams. It's one of those classic borderline cases that I've discussed previously where the tram advocates are running off with the case because the bus industry isn't delivering to its potential.
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby Frosty » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:48 am

A bus is a bus to the regular commuter they could be less worried about the form of propulsion. They want a bus that turns up is comfortable gets them to where they want to go.

Gardeners Rd has quite bad traffic between Mascot Station to Botany Rd intersection. If they improved the reliability of the 418 it wouldn't be such an issue same can be said for the nearby cross-town 348 & 370.

Problem with bus priority there simply isn't the room. Lots of roads in the inner-west or Eastern Suburbs are either 2 or 4 lane roads. People would be angry if they turned a 4 lane road into a 2 lane road with bus lanes. People got angry with Epping Rd being converted into a single general traffic lane and bus lane in each direction after LCT.
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Re: East-West light rail proposal - Inner Southern Sydney

Postby tonyp » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:14 am

Frosty wrote:A bus is a bus to the regular commuter they could be less worried about the form of propulsion.

They certainly would if they experienced an electric bus, so I guess the best thing is to shelter them from such an experience. :roll:

One of the significant attractions of trams for the general public is the fact that they're electric and thus quiet and smooth. Either you want to use any means you can to attract people to using buses or you're not serious and you don't. I've been "tainted" by riding trolleybuses. After that there's no looking back. :wink:

But the main issue is that there are significant environmental, public amenity and public health issues with diesel buses, particularly in a dense inner city area like this.

Frosty wrote:People would be angry if they turned a 4 lane road into a 2 lane road with bus lanes. People got angry with Epping Rd being converted into a single general traffic lane and bus lane in each direction after LCT.

And what do you think a tram on this east-west link would be doing? Taking away two traffic lanes. Buses are just as entitled to expect the same.

You actually need to make car users angry. They need to understand that they're not the victims of traffic congestion, they ARE the traffic congestion. A bus or tram lane can move many more people per hour along a road than the car lanes alongside. The purpose of roads is to move people (and goods), not cars.
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