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Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby moa999 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:58 pm

(Going somewhat OT on the Tibby Cotter bridge)

And they still let people cross the dangerous intersection of Moore Park and Anzac Parade
They've built the bridge - use it.. put a fence around the intersection on game day and force people to walk back to the bridge.. guarantee people will only do it once -- losing that timed crossing would substantially improved traffic flow after a game

While they're at it they should use the eastbound lane on Moore Park Rd that goes to the south of the ED exit as a contra flow lane for those wanting to access the ED (it's already blocked and close to traffic)
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:08 pm

Back to the real subject under discussion please.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby boronia » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:55 pm

Don't fiddle around with ferries. Build a bridge or tunnel and be done with it :lol:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:12 pm

And how many billions would that cost?
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby boronia » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:29 pm

Who cares....they will do anything for a few votes from The Shirees 8)
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:18 pm

Would not be worth it as the Cronulla area tends to be Liberal in any case.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:43 pm

Actually I would support a tunnel provided we build an Airport off shore near Kurnell. SInce that makes Kurnell happy maybe and will make all the Inner West NIMBYs happy and developers.

Would there be any difference in votes if there was a proper link on the north side La Perouse end would it swing Liberal ? It would work maybe once Green Square is done it would then it require a huge re-distrubution and take out the heavily Labor voting areas of Eastlakes & Mascot.

I was thinking maybe the Shire wouldn't like a link too scared of a flood of Eastern Suburbs migrants.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Swift » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:55 pm

What about a massive land reclamation of the whole bay? Just fill it with the spoil from NWRL, PHRT and West Connex and be done with it. :idea:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Stu » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:16 pm

Does anyone remember the proposal to have light rail travel between La Perouse and Kurnell (under Botany Bay)?
When Labour were in government back in 2010.

http://m.smh.com.au/national/transport-group-reveals-rail-plans-for-bay-light-express-20100126-mwev.html

Transport group reveals rail plans for 'Bay Light Express'.

Light rail lines would reach deep into Sydney's suburbs and regional NSW - not just the inner city - under blueprints drawn up by urban planners, transport experts and business groups who are seeking fast and relatively cheap ways of improving public transport.

The State Government has made public its 'study brief'' into proposed extensions of the light rail to Dulwich Hill and through the central business district.

The 5.6-kilometre extension from Lilyfield to Dulwich Hill is estimated to cost $71 million, compared with $5.3 billion for seven kilometres of underground Metro through the CBD.

Transport advocates are pushing for light rail lines to the southern and eastern suburbs, around Parramatta and in Newcastle.

At least one of the proposals - for a light rail line between Granville and Bankstown, via Regents Park - was originally championed by the Assistant Minister for Transport, David Borger, when he was mayor of Parramatta.

The advocacy group Eco Transit has published plans for a ''Bay Light Express'', which would have two extensions. The eastern extension would run for 27 kilometres from the CBD through the high-density neighbourhoods of Darlinghurst, Kensington and Randwick and on to La Perouse.

The line would cross the heads of Botany Bay to Kurnell in a tunnel before continuing along Captain Cook Drive and Elouera Road to Cronulla.

While a tunnel would be expensive to build, EcoTransit argues: ''This last section would provide unprecedented access between the north-east and south-east districts of the region at travel times vastly superior to those possible by car.''

The western extension of the Bay Light Express would run for 25 kilometres between Central Station and Carringbah, via Newtown, St Peters, a nearby disused industrial estate that could be rehabilitated for high-density housing, the international airport terminal, Rockdale, Brighton-le-Sands and Taren Point.

Eco Transit says the Bay Light Express would ''extend the coverage of the rail network by creating rail interchanges with the East Hills, Bankstown and Western Suburbs rail lines. This will increase the potential for cross-city trips to be undertaken quickly by rail, generating yet more opportunities to remove traffic from some of Sydney's most congested roads.'' The estimated cost for 52 kilometres of line would be just over $1 billion.

An urban planner, Garry Glazebrook, of the University of Technology, Sydney, has proposed light rail lines through Drummoyne to Abbotsford, to North Bondi, Randwick and Coogee, Botany and White Bay near Balmain.

His plan would also transform the poorly patronised Carlingford line by replacing it with light rail and incorporates the Borger plan for a Parramatta-Bankstown line along the Duck Creek corridor, helping to revive a declining area. The Government's 2031 Transport Blueprint, now under review, includes proposals for a Bankstown-Liverpool light rail.

Dr Glazebrook also supports a long-term plan to run light rail down the middle of Parramatta Road between the CBD and Strathfield, which would transform the amenity of the corridor, which developers say is too noisy and polluted by traffic to attract high-quality housing.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:51 pm

The Labor party proposed a lot things how many things did they deliver in terms of Public Transport not much. A lot airy fairy was the Labor party proposed few years ago.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Stu » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:44 pm

Here is another idea for linking La Perouse and Kurnell. This time, heavy rail.
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/11/12/sydney-airport-botany-bay-expansion-plan-has-a-hitch/

airports Nov 12, 2012
Sydney Airport (Botany Bay) expansion plan has hitches

There are two very big problems with NSW Treasurer Mike Baird’s plan for a Botany Bay expansion of Sydney Airport, despite its advantages when it was first proposed more than 50 years ago.

1: No matter how many runways Sydney Airport gets, it is legally limited to 80 flights an hour, and

2: It is useless for serving the western half of Sydney, which is generating massive and growing demand


There are of course other issues including the excessive concentration of additional flights, and ground access congestion, that would arise if the laws that limit air traffic frequency at the existing pocket sized Sydney Airport were to be repealed.

The idea of developing an airport on the southern shore of Botany Bay began in the late 1940s when Bill Bradfield, the youngest son of the chief engineer and joint designer of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, Dr JJ Bradfield, headed the public administration of aviation in Australia and proposed a combined flying boat and airliner hub at Towra Point, a prominent sand spit on the western side of the bay that stretches much of the way toward Sandringham.

At the time, long range flying boats were part of the future of post war airline plans world wide, and Sydney had a second airport in the form of the flying boat base at Rose Bay, which for much of the harbourside population, was a noisy nuisance, if spectacular for passengers on the Manly ferries when a roaring double decker four engined flying boat charged past them.

Just before the start of this century Bill Bradfield and the IAC advisory group proposed what was in effect a very large expansion of Sydney Airport’s capacity on the southern shores of Botany Bay, parallel to Towra point and some distance to the SW of Kurnell, even though it was often described as the Kurnell option.

It could have equally been called the Wanda Beach or Greenhills option, since the southern end of the main runway for the plan would have reached the northern edge of the remnant sand dunes that separated Botany Bay and its mangrove shores from the long line of surf breaks that stretched toward Kurnell from Wanda Beach.

The writer became a friend of Bradfield in the years before his death in 2006. In that time Bradfield often discussed the potential for shifting smaller regional turbo-props and jets to a single runway parallel to headings of the main north-south runway at Sydney Airport but located to the east of Towra Point and to the west of the edge of the desalination plant.

The merit of this much less costly proposal was that if those aircraft could be considered as not included in the 80 movement limit because of their negligible noise their relocation would add significant capacity to the main airport by removing country flights from the mix.

It was also proposed that a road and rail tunnel or bridge could link Kurnell to La Perouse under or over the mouth of Botany Bay, allowing not just easy connections between the satellite terminal and runway with the main airport, but triggering a major change in the transport map and population distribution of greater Sydney by connecting the Cronulla-Sutherland peninsula on the southern side of Botany Bay to the eastern suburbs and CBD of Sydney by a new and more efficient route, with the potential to extend the eastern suburbs railway from Bondi Junction down along its originally planned route to Kingsford to continue beyond to La Perouse and then on to link into the rail line at Cronulla.

Any connection between Kurnell and La Perouse is going to dramatically transform Sydney, with or without an airport component.

The most important revelation in the Telegraph’s story is one which has been touched on here in recent times, which is that there is no practicable site for a 2nd Sydney Airport at Wilton, which is currently under study at the direction of the federal Infrastructure and Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, after his rejection of the endorsement by an independent panel of the site the Commonwealth already owns at Badgerys Creek.

There was a site at Wilton. It now has housing estates on it. The other nearby sites are too undulating to be seriously considered from an engineering point of view, and compared to Badgerys Creek, Wilton is very second rate in its location and relevance to the air travel market.

Sydney has a choice in airport policy. Build Badgerys Creek, or choke.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:14 am

La Perouse to Kurnell heavy rail would make sense if they extend the ESR to La Perouse then extend the Kurnell end to Cronulla station creating a circle line. It could operate similarly to the Circle Line in London
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:59 am

Frosty wrote:La Perouse to Kurnell heavy rail would make sense if they extend the ESR to La Perouse then extend the Kurnell end to Cronulla station creating a circle line. It could operate similarly to the Circle Line in London
That idea you have use to happen on the Inerwest line with trains looping to run City to City via Strathfield Lidcombe Bankstown and Sydenham
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby captainch » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:51 pm

If you asked the average joe blow what kurnell is famous for one if they know were it is!? A lot of people think there is nothing past Cronulla! But most will say the Caltex refinery & and the water treatment plant! When I drove casual for kurnell bus company ,One day had 20 Japanese tourists onboard wanting to see Captain Cooks Landing place,On the way there along the waterfront it was the monthly rubbish day they were taking pics of old toilets sheets of tin all the general rubbish! When we arrived I had to tell them there was NO bus back to Cronulla for 3 &half hours plus the local take-a way food shop was closed! When I DID the return trip there were 20 sopping wet tourists standing under the shop waiting for the bus never been so embarrassed in my life! there is REALLY nothing at kurnell! why waste millions as stated on the tv news last night on a ferry! :evil: :cry: :shock: if you want people to go to kurnell improve the bus service & promote the captain cooks landing place ,at the moment its a small plaque on a rock ,blink & you will miss it ,We do not care about our history! if it was America you would have a Disneyland type park & as for a bridge or tunnel why not buy up the 100 or so homes & extend the airport & forget bagerys creek airport!
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Swift » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:39 pm

We went there on an excursion in 1982 when I was in third grade. Such a boring and desolate place. I remember thinking, even then, why there was not much more showing the significance of this place. The only memorable things about it ( apart from what I said above) was seeing that massive pier for the oil company and the trip on the Metro -West Bedfords so far from home.
Now with that stupid cult of political correctness, nothing is likely to change.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby captainch » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:08 pm

with the mini tornado they had earlier in the year,most of the homes still remain not fixed & most of the people who lived there worked at the Caltex refine :evil: ry now closed or closing cheeper to extend the airport less homes & there's not the not in my back yard brigade, A friend of mine bought a high rise unit at wolli creek & complains about the plane noise..............but every 3 weeks flys out for overseas! doesn't complain about the planes then! :evil: :twisted: :roll: :roll: :shock:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Swift » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:21 pm

People don't realise that aircraft noise is only a problem if you obsess over it.
Many people don't even notice it after a while. The human brain is an amazing thing if you give it a chance. :roll:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:49 pm

I've lived in an area with moderate aircraft noise but nothing like people in St. Peter's and stuff but I've gotten use to it living in the area for 10 odd years.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby captainch » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:03 pm

till recently I lived next to the main railway line at rawsom rd at woy woy .trains 24/7 now live in the bush all we here are birds first couple nights so quite couldn't sleep!
:shock:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby tonyp » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:36 pm

Swift wrote:People don't realise that aircraft noise is only a problem if you obsess over it.

The original 707s were terrible, modern jets are better. The worst thing is the smell of kerosine when it's raining (and knowing you're getting bathed in it).

But for me 30 years of it was well and truly "bettered" by government buses screaming their nuts off and bathing us in diesel stink and smoke. The worst were the Mercedes, I can still hear the noise inside my head all these years later!

Just think, if Captain Cook had reacted to Kurnell the way you guys do, we wouldn't be here. We'd be stuck inside some English jail. :wink:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby boronia » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:00 am

Swift wrote:We went there on an excursion in 1982 when I was in third grade. Such a boring and desolate place. I remember thinking, even then, why there was not much more showing the significance of this place. The only memorable things about it ( apart from what I said above) was seeing that massive pier for the oil company and the trip on the Metro -West Bedfords so far from home.
Now with that stupid cult of political correctness, nothing is likely to change.

There used to be a NPWS Visitor Centre there, with an extensive display of local history and artefacts; presume it still is. Quite a large area of interesting National Park to explore as well.

It seems that every time someone suggests development around Kurnell area, there is the usually outcry about desecrating a significant site, but just how much of the village needs to be protected?
Last edited by boronia on Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:43 pm

boronia wrote:
It seems that every time someone suggests development around Kurnell area, there is the usually outcry about desecrating a significant site, but just much of the village needs to be protected?

Should that be "but just how much of the village needs to be protected?"
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Daniel » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:23 am

captainch it's easy to generalise, but there are actually more than 800 homes, 99% were not damaged in the storm or have since been fully repaired, and a small number of the population now work at Caltex or associated businesses.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Swift » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:47 am

Will that mega wharf still be used in the foreseeable future?
What was it's purpose when the refinery operated?
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby matthewg » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:13 am

Swift wrote:Will that mega wharf still be used in the foreseeable future?
What was it's purpose when the refinery operated?


Bulk tankers were unloaded there. That's how the crude oil got to the refinery. The 'product' left by road or a pipeline under the bay. The airport used to get it's jet fuel by pipe. I gather the pipe went all the way out to Clyde and connected with that facility too and the pipe was used to move various 'products' to and fro as required, (Possibly including crude for Clyde to process). It wasn't just jet fuel for the airport.

When I was a child my father took up fishing. Fish caught at Kurnell were inedible due to recurring oil spills from the jetty. You could smell they were not right. Fish should not smell like diesel.

I imagine with the cessation of refining, 'finished' product will have to arrive by ship and I would assume they would use the jetty to unload those ships and use part of the refinery site as a distribution centre. The infrastructure is all there.
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