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Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:23 pm

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-r ... rves-study
Government calls for community feedback on La Perouse to Kurnell Ferry Wharves study

Transport for NSW today announced community feedback is being invited on a draft feasibility study for potential new ferry wharves at La Perouse and Kurnell.

“The community is invited to have its say on reintroducing ferry wharves at La Perouse and Kurnell,” a spokesperson for Transport for NSW said.

“The draft study is an important step in understanding the range of issues which need to be addressed when considering the potential new wharves including where those wharves might be located and how they could be used.”

Transport for NSW engaged experts to investigate engineering, socioeconomic, environmental and heritage considerations related to new wharves and ferry services.

The report outlines the preferred locations for the proposed wharves, an overview of the potential services which could be provided at the wharves and a review of potential environmental, social and heritage impacts.

Community feedback is being invited until Friday 12 August and will be used to finalise the feasibility study and determine any further investigations which may be required.

New wharves would allow visitors to travel between the La Perouse and Kurnell sides of Kamay Botany Bay National Park by boat, re-establishing long standing connections across the bay.

The community is invited to learn more by viewing the feasibility study online at http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/project ... ry-wharves

Feedback can be submitted by:

emailing projects@transport.nsw.gov.au
writing to La Perouse and Kurnell Ferry Wharves Transport for New South Wales

PO Box K659
Haymarket NSW 1240

All feedback will be considered and the community will be kept informed as the project progresses.
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Re: NSW Ferry Discussion

Postby Frosty » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:12 pm

Is there any NIMBYism in the Kurnell area or La Perouse area preventing a serivce. I'm guessing the bay isn't too rough to cross. Well if you take the road route Kurnell to La Perouse it's 32km.
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Re: NSW Ferry Discussion

Postby mandonov » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:48 pm

Is there even any demand for such a service?
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Re: NSW Ferry Discussion

Postby boronia » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:00 pm

Until the late 1950s, this ferry was the only access to Kurnell; it continued into the 60s until storms destroyed the wharves. The Kurnell wharf was up near the Cook memorial, quite a walk from the village. It lost a lot of its attraction when the road ran through from Taren Point.

It could be a rough trip when westerly winds were blowing
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Re: NSW Ferry Discussion

Postby Swift » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:29 pm

If they can have Ettalong to Palm beach, why not this?
Are Kurnell residents think they are even more exclusive than PB?
I don't see any tired old soaps being filmed there.
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[Leader] Many benefits from Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Daniel » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:03 am

Many benefits from Kurnell to La Perouse ferry, says Transport for NSW study
Murray Trembath
July 6, 2016, 5:30 a.m.

A ferry service between Kurnell and La Perouse would require a government subsidy, and new wharves would cost $17 million, a draft feasibility study has found.

However, the study found “numerous indirect social, economic and tourism benefits...could provide a compelling case for justifying any direct economic revenue shortfall”.

The study said commercial operators had expressed interest in transporting tourists from La Perouse to Kurnell, offshore whale watching and excursions around Botany Bay.

Transport for NSW, which commissioned the study, invited community feedback by Friday, August 12.

Cronulla MP and Environment Minister Mark Speakman, who has pushed for a ferry service to be operating by the 250th anniversary of Cook’s landing in 2020, encouraged the community to comment.

Mr Speakman said the proposed service would re-establish long standing historic and community connections.

Access to the historic precinct at Kurnell would be much improved and arriving by boat would provide an alternative view of the area’s beauty.

A passenger ferry service operated between La Perouse and Kurnell from the 1890s until 1974 when the wharves were severely damaged by the major storm that also devastated Cronulla beaches and the baths at Brighton-Le-Sands.

The study found the preferred wharf locations for new wharves were the site of the old ferry wharf at La Perouse, near the Cook obelisk and viewing platform, and the southern end of Frenchman’s Bay at La Perouse.

”A total infrastructure capital cost for the two wharf locations is estimated to be in the order of $17 million,” the study said. “Whole of life asset maintenance costs will also apply.”

The study said a preliminary assessment suggested there was likely to be no significant environmental and other impacts that could not be appropriately managed and mitigated.

“A ferry service between La Perouse and Kurnell will probably primarily need to be a tourist shuttle as it is not likely to be commercially viable for commuters only,” it said.

“Some form of government assistance would likely be required to facilitate establishment of a ferry service.

“Establishing a ferry service is expected to provide numerous indirect social, economic and tourism benefits for La Perouse, Kurnell and wider Sydney that could provide a compelling case for justifying any direct economic revenue shortfall associated with its implementation and operation.”

The study said, should the project be progressed, a business case should be undertaken to better quantify the indirect benefits. It said complementary measures to maximise the patronage potential could be considered.

They could include increasing and synchronising connecting bus services, revitalising tourist attractions and effective marketing engagement.

The study said supplementary water linkages could be introduced to other locations in Botany Bay, such as Brighton-Le-Sands and near Sydney Airport, but new wharves would be needed.

The study included a case study of the Cronulla to Bundeena ferry service, which caters for both commuters and tourists.

“Between July 2014 and June 2015 the service attracted more than 213,000 passengers,” the study said.
“It is understood the NSW Government partially subsidises concession tickets on this service.”

View the study at: transport.nsw.gov.au/projects-laperouse-and-kurnell-ferry-wharves

Feedback can be submitted by emailing: projects@transport.nsw.gov.au or writing to: La Perouse and Kurnell Ferry Wharves, Transport for NSW, PO Box K659, Haymarket NSW 1240

http://www.theleader.com.au/story/40128 ... t/?cs=1507
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Re: NSW Ferry Discussion

Postby tonyp » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:05 am

Frosty wrote:Is there any NIMBYism in the Kurnell area or La Perouse area preventing a serivce. I'm guessing the bay isn't too rough to cross. Well if you take the road route Kurnell to La Perouse it's 32km.

There's a red hot local group opposing trams. That's why all of my recommendations for extension of CSELR end at Little Bay. :lol:

But I see that TfNSW includes La Perouse in a future extension. So I reckon this would do the trick:

Image
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby boronia » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:24 am

CSELR all the way to Cronulla? 8)
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:22 am

I do not want a link between La Perouse to Cronulla and the Shire. The idea scares me I'm not opposed to it on an idealoglical thought :wink: as someone isn't a NIMBY as I live all the way in Green Square. The Shire and Eastern Suburbs linked, 10 mins to the other side that maybe to close to comfort for people who live in the Eastern Suburbs.

The tram can extend after Little Bay to Matraville and Port Botany depot. Need to protect the people of La Perouse. The case of NIMBYism is an issue of the Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney. Maybe let's put all this 'stuff' out west it doesn't belong in the beautiful east words of NIMBYs of the East of Melb & Sydney.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby tonyp » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:54 am

Frosty wrote:I do not want a link between La Perouse to Cronulla and the Shire. The idea scares me I'm not opposed to it on an idealoglical thought :wink: as someone isn't a NIMBY as I live all the way in Green Square. The Shire and Eastern Suburbs linked, 10 mins to the other side that maybe to close to comfort for people who live in the Eastern Suburbs.

The tram can extend after Little Bay to Matraville and Port Botany depot. Need to protect the people of La Perouse. The case of NIMBYism is an issue of the Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney. Maybe let's put all this 'stuff' out west it doesn't belong in the beautiful east words of NIMBYs of the East of Melb & Sydney.

Will a passport control and duty free store at Kurnell allay your fears? :wink:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby BroadGauge » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:36 pm

Frosty wrote:The Shire and Eastern Suburbs linked, 10 mins to the other side that maybe to close to comfort for people who live in the Eastern Suburbs.

10 minutes from one place to another place across a body of water that's just like the first place. Doesn't seem that bad.

Just think, if you lived in Johannesburg that you could be living in a nice modern house with a big garden, and be 10 minutes down the road from shanty towns with third world living conditions, full of far less fortunate people who resent you. Now that might be a bit close for comfort! :twisted:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Rick R » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:25 pm

tonyp wrote:But I see that TfNSW includes La Perouse in a future extension. So I reckon this would do the trick:

Image

The big problem with this idea is that the trams being used on CSELR are that long they would need a ferry that is half the width of the mouth of the bay, which would be a definate navigation hazard to all of the supertankers and container ships :lol:

tonyp wrote:Will a passport control and duty free store at Kurnell allay your fears? :wink:

I'm still waiting for the duty free shop on the Manly Ferry that someone promised here. I've even applied for a Northern Beaches passport to replace my Warringah one. :cry:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby burrumbus » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:50 pm

The biggest question to be asked here is whether there is adequate demand to justify the service.Somehow I doubt it.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:01 pm

There is probably more demand for a ferry service from Palm Beach to the City as the L90 is a joke and driving either via the Wakehurst Pkwy or Pittwater Road is a also a joke.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby captainch » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:05 pm

seeing its a rough crossing perhaps drag up the old ferry the enclosed "KOOLEEN" to make the trips or extend the Bundeena to Cronulla ferry extend it to la perouse! get a few people of the trains! :shock: :roll:
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:11 pm

Frosty wrote:There is probably more demand for a ferry service from Palm Beach to the City as the L90 is a joke and driving either via the Wakehurst Pkwy or Pittwater Road is a also a joke.

There may be more demand but the logistics to make such a service work, make it just about impossible. This has been discussed many times in the past,
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:14 pm

captainch wrote:seeing its a rough crossing perhaps drag up the old ferry the enclosed "KOOLEEN" to make the trips or extend the Bundeena to Cronulla ferry extend it to la perouse! get a few people of the trains! :shock: :roll:

Currently Bundeena to Cronulla needs one ferry to operate an hourly service. Extending it to La Perouse (calling at Kurnell?) would need at least three ferries and possibly four to operate an hourly service - I dont think that is feasible.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:30 pm

If they were to operate a Kurnell to La Perouse ferry I was thinking could there be a chance of an express bus linking up to the ferry at La Perouse. I mean a proper express bus as the L94 & X94 stop all stops to either Maroubra or Kingsford. The proper express would either run via Botany or Eastgardens then to the CIty.

If this ever comes to true light I think we could get a NIMBYism movement going pretty easy lots of easy NIMBY people to use from the Eastern Suburbs also the Inner West and Lower North Shore Mosman/Neutral Bay. (Note I'm not part of any NIMBY movement).
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby tonyp » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:30 pm

captainch wrote:seeing its a rough crossing perhaps drag up the old ferry the enclosed "KOOLEEN" to make the trips or extend the Bundeena to Cronulla ferry extend it to la perouse! get a few people of the trains! :shock: :roll:

If you had a shave this morning captainch that may have been Kooleen that you shaved with.

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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby boronia » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:25 pm

Frosty wrote:If they were to operate a Kurnell to La Perouse ferry I was thinking could there be a chance of an express bus linking up to the ferry at La Perouse. I mean a proper express bus as the L94 & X94 stop all stops to either Maroubra or Kingsford. The proper express would either run via Botany or Eastgardens then to the CIty. .

If they didn't stop all stops south of Maroubra, they wouldn't get too many passengers on.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Liamena » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:10 am

" ... re-establishing long standing connections across the bay. ... "

Any basis for this, or is it just some kind of leftard nonsense about Pemulwuy in his canoe ?
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby tonyp » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:30 am

Liamena wrote:" ... re-establishing long standing connections across the bay. ... "

Any basis for this, or is it just some kind of leftard nonsense about Pemulwuy in his canoe ?


http://www.ssec.org.au/our_environment/ ... erries.htm

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15402805

http://www.afloat.com.au/images/magazin ... urnell.pdf

The first significant road access to Kurnell, Captain Cook Drive, was not built until the 1950s.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:47 am

Liamena wrote:" ... re-establishing long standing connections across the bay. ... "

Any basis for this, or is it just some kind of leftard nonsense about Pemulwuy in his canoe ?



Try reading the report for some background and history.
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Stu » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:54 am

$17 million for two ferry wharves, that is excellent value for money :P
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Re: Kurnell to La Perouse ferry

Postby Frosty » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:46 pm

Well there is the good old case of value for money the Albert Tibby Cotter Bridge. The bridge that goes across Anzac Pde only $30 million odd.
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