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Parramatta light rail

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Frosty » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:27 pm

Bankstown put a bus lane down the A6 or something if you want a better service from Parra to Bankstown.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby simonl » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:40 pm

Transtopic wrote: I acknowledge your earlier comment that you have received confirmation that the route via Eastwood as recommended in Parramatta Council's feasibility study is not being considered, but is it?

Refer to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ko6ajtmsqmfq ... r.pdf?dl=0

Note the cringeworthy comments about the Cumberland line and train speed also.

Transtopic wrote:A possible compromise is to choose the route via Eastwood to Macquarie Park with a branch to Carlingford.

That would be the ideal assuming we are building any light rail east from Parra but it still requires going through Brush Farm, which they've said they don't want to do.

Frosty wrote:Bankstown put a bus lane down the A6 or something if you want a better service from Parra to Bankstown.

Maybe but the M91 & M92 don't spend that much time on the A6 north of Bankstown unless I'm misreading the map. I'd wonder about bringing back Parramatta-City via Bankstown peak hour train services. Do they add positive value?
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Transtopic » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:58 pm

Frosty wrote:Bankstown put a bus lane down the A6 or something if you want a better service from Parra to Bankstown.

It's a bit indirect though.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Transtopic » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:30 pm

simonl wrote:
Transtopic wrote:A possible compromise is to choose the route via Eastwood to Macquarie Park with a branch to Carlingford.

That would be the ideal assuming we are building any light rail east from Parra but it still requires going through Brush Farm, which they've said they don't want to do.

Government response to your enquiry - "I understand significant engineering and environmental challenges are associated with crossing Brush Farm". What a load of bullsh*t. They just don't want to spend the money or they have another agenda to reinforce the role of Epping. What about the challenge of building a light rail route through the Epping Town Centre. The Brush Farm crossing pales into insignificance. In any event, a Carlingford/Epping route would cost considerably more. After public consultation, the former RTA had detailed plans to construct an arch bridge over Brush Farm for the County Rd. It's just a gulley for Christ's sake and any crossing would not be visible from Brush Farm House. It's a pretty lame excuse to discount the route via Eastwood. If that's their attitude, then I agree with you that a Macquarie Park link is unlikely.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Aurora » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:09 pm

Frosty wrote:Bankstown put a bus lane down the A6 or something if you want a better service from Parra to Bankstown.

What is the A6?
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby simonl » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:37 am

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby mandonov » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:41 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/premier-mike- ... lh36y.html

Premier Mike Baird to announce light rail from Parramatta to Sydney Olympic Park

A light-rail line will be constructed from Parramatta to Strathfield via Sydney Olympic Park, Premier Mike Baird is expected to announce on Tuesday.

The line is one of four possible routes from Parramatta that have been under consideration by the state government for more than a year.

The expected announcement comes as western Sydney residents, leaders and advocates have grown increasingly frustrated about the delay in unveiling the selected route.

The four options were: Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Carlingford and Epping; Parramatta to Castle Hill via Old Northern Road; Parramatta to Bankstown; and Parramatta to Strathfield/Burwood via Sydney Olympic Park.

The Sydney Olympic Park route emerged as an early frontrunner and was backed by lobby group, West Line Alliance, whose members' list includes high-profile businesses such as Goodman Group, NRMA, ANZ Stadium and Accor.

The group has proposed using a finance mechanism known as "value capture" to fund the construction of the line, saying as much as $2.9 billion could be raised through voluntary developer levies.

Premier Baird is expected to make the announcement at the launch of a Deloitte report, Shaping Future Cities: Designing Western Sydney, which calls for a target of 200,000 new jobs to be created in western Sydney by 2020.

Deloitte, which has an office in Parramatta, has also been involved in the campaign for a line through Sydney Olympic Park, penning a report that said the corridor was one of Australia's best opportunities to stimulate jobs and economic growth.

The report showed that development of the line had the potential to create 38,000 extra jobs in the Sydney Olympic Park corridor by 2036, as well as up to 4200 during the construction period.

With a light-rail line the corridor had the potential, according to Deloitte, to accommodate more people and jobs than Green Square, Barangaroo, Central to Eveleigh and Bays Precinct combined.

The route would also serve as a potential new area of employment for the new precinct, Camellia.

The small suburb is currently an industrial wasteland but the government has announced plans to make it a mixed-use precinct with thousands of apartments and new jobs.

Sydney Olympic Park advocates have also long called for better public transport to the suburb, and it was among the reasons why the Commonwealth Bank decided to pluck 4800 workers from the area.

NSW Opposition Leader Luke Foley has also backed the route.

Parramatta Council has, however, strongly pushed for the line through Carlingford to be built first. Former lord mayor Scott Lloyd has previously said the Sydney Olympic Park route would be a "white elephant".

"We have serious concerns that passenger numbers would not be sufficient to sustain the Strathfield via Olympic Park route as the first phase of the project, potentially jeopardising its expansion," Cr Lloyd said earlier this year.

Parramatta's liberal state MP Geoff Lee also backed the construction of the Carlingford line, calling for the current under-used heavy rail line to be converted to light rail.

If the light-rail line to Sydney Olympic Park is to be funded through value capture, it leaves open the possibility that the government might also be able to build the Carlingford route.

Roads minister Duncan Gay let slip that a final decision might be close last month when he said light rail "will be coming through this sector" while announcing plans for a residential development in nearby Lidcombe.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby simonl » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:30 pm

Is there somewhere that there are patronage forecasts for the proposed lines?
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby willb2107 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 pm

The Australian is reporting there will be two lines

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 7636854672
$2 billion light rail project set for Sydney
A $2 billion-plus Western Sydney light rail project involving two lines will be announced by Premier Mike Baird tomorrow.

The light rail project, the Daily Telegraph says, is believed to involve a network running from Westmead and through Parramatta CBD before splitting into two lines at Camellia, allowing passengers to travel to either Carlingford or Strathfield.

The Strathfield route would run through Rosehill Gardens, Camellia and Sydney Olympic Park.

The long-awaited announcement comes after the government worked to get developer investment to fund the Sydney Olympic Park leg in a process called “value capture” where the rail line would be funded by developers who are building apartments.

That has held up the announcement but allowed two rail lines to be built.

The government has previously committed to $1bn, growing the contribution from an initial $400 million in two state budgets.

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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby moa999 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:27 pm

So taking over the Carlingford rail line, and old track heading to Shell terminal?

Just saw a 7News graphic showing Carlingford line being extended to Macquarie Park as well as the Olympic Park/ Strathfield liine
Last edited by moa999 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby mandonov » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:47 pm

So the private investment has freed up funds to have a branch to Carlingford? Is that what is meant in the Australian article?
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Transtopic » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:12 pm

mandonov wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/premier-mike-baird-to-announce-light-rail-from-parramatta-to-sydney-olympic-park-20151207-glh36y.html

Hardly a surprise is it? It's been on the cards for months. As usual this government takes the easy quick fix option without having to commit much funding. But how soon will it be built?

It will be many years before Camellia will be developed to the extent that meaningful developer contributions begin to flow. You could say the same for Olympic Park itself, which has now suffered a setback with the Commonwealth Bank pulling out. So who is going to fund construction of the line initially? Are the developers and other vested interests prepared to put their hands in their pockets and fund it upfront? There is no doubt that a light rail route from Parramatta to Strathfield via SOP will be warranted in the longer term, but it shouldn't be the first priority, when the Macquarie Park and even Castle Hill routes offer far greater more immediate patronage, as confirmed by Parramatta Council's feasibility study.

It also begs the question, how can Deloitte's report, which appears to have influenced the government's decision, be considered objective when it has been involved in lobbying for this route? I'd like to see its assessment of the other route options as a comparison. I'm more inclined to give more credence to Parramatta Council's original feasibility study.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby moa999 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:14 pm

7news tweet including video with map

https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/ ... 9743885313
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Transtopic » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:31 pm

simonl wrote:Is there somewhere that there are patronage forecasts for the proposed lines?

I don't know what the patronage forecast's are for the Olympic Park corridor, but Parramatta Council's feasibility study forecast for the Macquarie Park link via Eastwood was 9,000-11,500 in the morning peak (3.5 hrs) and 5,000 in the peak hour. For the Castle Hill Line, it was 9,000-10,200 in the morning peak (3.5 hrs) and 5,000 in the peak hour. I can't see the Olympic Park route achieving this sort of patronage for some years, so it's hard to justify its priority over the other route options.

Since my earlier post, I note that there have been some media reports that the proposal also includes a branch to Carlingford, which would make sense, but it still leaves any future Macquarie Park link up in the air.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby simonl » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:37 pm

Transtopic wrote:Since my earlier post, I note that there have been some media reports that the proposal also includes a branch to Carlingford, which would make sense, but it still leaves any future Macquarie Park link up in the air.

The 7 news video had Carlingford extending to MQP. :lol:
Last edited by simonl on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby mandonov » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:49 pm

As I've said before, the private investment in the Olympic Park line will leave the government in a better position to fund the other lines itself. It's not an either/or situation, it's which other one can we build with SOP funding secured.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Transtopic » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:41 pm

It appears that there are contradictory media reports on the extent of the light rail proposal, so I will leave any further judgement until after the official announcement.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby rogf24 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:47 am

Looks like one to "Homebush" and one to Carlingford.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby simonl » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:00 pm

Homebush? So the double change will apply to get from the LR to the CBD, unless you're inclined to endure an all stops service.

Pathetic really.

I'm glad I didn't finish my email to my local member before I heard about this.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby mandonov » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:17 pm

I'm still not convinced that we have the final route. This is just another media outlet reporting on a different route to the others. None of the ministers' quotes mention 'Homebush', yet Constance does mention 'Strathfield'.

We just need to wait for the TfNSW press release to understand the whole picture, but what we do know now is that it will go to Carlingford and (at least) Olympic Park.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby mandonov » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:21 pm

Media roundup:

Fairfax: Parramatta - Sydney Olympic Park

News Corp: Parramatta - Strathfield & Carlingford

Seven News: Westmead - Strathfield & Macquarie Park

ABC: Westmead - Homebush & Carlingford
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby mandonov » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:27 pm

It will be to Strathfield:


TfNSW vid
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby simonl » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:48 pm

Looks like I put too much trust in ABC. Oh well, you live and learn.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:12 pm

The official announcement http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-r ... k-unveiled
Making it happen in Western Sydney: Parramatta light rail network unveiled

Western Sydney’s light rail network will connect Parramatta’s CBD to the key hubs of Sydney Olympic Park, Westmead Hospital, Western Sydney University and Strathfield.

NSW Premier Mike Baird, Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance and Minister for Planning Rob Stokes today unveiled the preferred route for the Parramatta Light Rail project, which will kick-start revitalisation and jobs growth along a 22-kilometre corridor.

"We’re delivering a modern, efficient and reliable light rail network for Western Sydney," Mr Baird said.

"The light rail network will help Parramatta reach its potential as Sydney’s second CBD and be a major boost to existing public transport services in Western Sydney."

The NSW Government investigated four short-listed corridors for light rail in Western Sydney and the preferred network includes a combination of two of these options.

The spine of the preferred route runs from Westmead to Strathfield via Parramatta CBD, and incorporating Camellia and Sydney Olympic Park.

A light rail line will also branch to Carlingford, replacing the existing heavy rail shuttle.

Mr Constance said: "Light rail will be a fantastic new public transport option for Western Sydney - we’ve started building in Sydney’s CBD, Newcastle light rail is on track and now progress for Western Sydney is about to crack on."

Mr Stokes said: "This will be a game changer for Sydney’s second CBD – the preferred route provides the most opportunity for new jobs and urban renewal."

Work will now begin on a final business case and assessment of the preferred network. This work will include planning, design and consultation with key stakeholders along the network to develop the staging of the project, the exact light rail route and stops, and the final project cost.

The light rail corridor will activate a priority growth area and there is an opportunity for the government to share in the value uplift that will occur along the corridor.

A Special Infrastructure Contribution will be implemented, with the levy expected to be set at around $200 per square metre of gross floor area of new residential developments subject to consultation.

The funding from the SIC is to be reserved for Parramatta Light Rail and associated infrastructure like new schools and road upgrades.

Consultation will be undertaken with industry before the SIC is finalised.

The SIC will be in addition to the $1 billion the NSW Government has already reserved for Parramatta Light Rail. The government will also explore funding contributions from the federal and local governments.
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Re: SMH: Roads Minister Duncan Gay hints @ Olympic Pk light

Postby rogf24 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:37 pm

From the video, no reuse of Sandown line but it's got Underwood Road covered.
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