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Parramatta light rail

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:41 pm

GazzaOak wrote:Lets say they build the light rail and metro at sydney olympic park, would they actually do away with the spur line from lidcombe to SOP (eg would the metro and light rail would be enough for a 200k+ events there).

What a crazy idea. Why lift infrastructure which is useful for no reason? Even if it only shifts 25k or so in an hour after an event, that's still a reasonable dent on the demand.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby tonyp » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:09 pm

Hallelujah, another topic coming to life on ATDB after the Wollongong bombshell!

Considering the capacity of the stadium and the potential for simultaneous events at several venues, I think they will continue to need every bit of transit they can throw at it - train, metro, tram and bus. I wouldn't remove one iota of existing transit infrastructure.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

While it will obviously be useful for major events, its patronage at other times might be severely compromised by the other modes?

The metro will see the end of Bankstown line services to/from Lidcombe, further diluting its usefulness.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Swift » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:19 pm

Aghast at the lack of thought for Lidcombe & surrounds.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby tonyp » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:43 am

boronia wrote:
The metro will see the end of Bankstown line services to/from Lidcombe, further diluting its usefulness.

Won't suburbans still run around to and from Bankstown via Regents Park? Instead of a direct train there'll simply be an interchange at Bankstown to and from a faster train. I don't see the bad in that.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby rogf24 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:25 am

tonyp wrote:
boronia wrote:
The metro will see the end of Bankstown line services to/from Lidcombe, further diluting its usefulness.

Won't suburbans still run around to and from Bankstown via Regents Park? Instead of a direct train there'll simply be an interchange at Bankstown to and from a faster train. I don't see the bad in that.


I think that's the case but if you look at Future Transport, further down the track, the short section of track between the Main South/Bankstown Line junction and Bankstown station could be converted to metro as part of the Parramatta to Kogarah line.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:47 pm

tonyp wrote:
boronia wrote:
The metro will see the end of Bankstown line services to/from Lidcombe, further diluting its usefulness.

Won't suburbans still run around to and from Bankstown via Regents Park? Instead of a direct train there'll simply be an interchange at Bankstown to and from a faster train. I don't see the bad in that.

I'm not aware that it has ever been explained what might happen to Birrong and Yagoona, or Lidcombe-Carramar for that matter. Two ridiculous shuttle services seem to be on the cards.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Transport: Buses » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:23 pm

simonl wrote:I'm not aware that it has ever been explained what might happen to Birrong and Yagoona, or Lidcombe-Carramar for that matter. Two ridiculous shuttle services seem to be on the cards.


The most logical solution to this mess (the Bankstown line metro conversion itself being quite illogical) is to bring back the old Inner West line, with now two branches to Liverpool via Regents Park/Villawood and Bankstown via Regents Park/Yagoona.

I also assume that Erskineville and St Peters will also now be the responsibility of the T4. As if the T4 isn't slow enough already :roll: :roll:
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby jaseee » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Erskineville and St Peters will likely be taken over by T8 instead, which makes logical sense given there will also be additional paths for T8 trains as well. T8 trains via Sydenham have a stop at St Peters in the new timetable as well.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Frosty » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:33 pm

This is might be straying off topic but if T8 trains stop at Erko & St Peters won’t be any faster then via Airport route.
Maybe ideally there should be a continuous rail route of some sort from Bankstown to Olympic Pk through Lidcombe.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Geo101 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:51 pm

Frosty wrote:Maybe ideally there should be a continuous rail route of some sort from Bankstown to Olympic Pk through Lidcombe.


Drop a tunnel underneath Lidcombe Station, newly linked underground platform, and bingo.

The problem I suppose is the part which is shared by the freight network.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:59 am

There has been previous talk about extending the metro to LIverpool
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Liamena » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:02 pm

But the plan for the metro was to go via Milperra and Chipping Norton somewhere, not via the line though Chester Hill.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby iamthouth » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:08 pm

Any chance of Metro West taking over SOP, and PLR extended via the rail alignment to Bankstown and Cabramatta in a future stage?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:26 am

Transport: Buses wrote:
simonl wrote:I'm not aware that it has ever been explained what might happen to Birrong and Yagoona, or Lidcombe-Carramar for that matter. Two ridiculous shuttle services seem to be on the cards.


The most logical solution to this mess (the Bankstown line metro conversion itself being quite illogical) is to bring back the old Inner West line, with now two branches to Liverpool via Regents Park/Villawood and Bankstown via Regents Park/Yagoona.

I also assume that Erskineville and St Peters will also now be the responsibility of the T4. As if the T4 isn't slow enough already :roll: :roll:

Urgh to branching the Inner West. If you're going to reinstate the inner west line are you going to fill in the missing bit of the sextup between Homebush and Lidcombe? Highly doubtful, I would say.

I think the most obvious solution for Birrong and Yagoona is to extend the conversion around to new platforms at Regents Park. You would still have a shuttle for Sefton-Carramar though. If you have a bit more money, add some additional track to Lidcombe and convert platform 5 to metro, but in that scenario you still have the problem of needing to reinstate the inner west line.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby grog » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:00 am

Now that T1 will use a single track pair from Homebush to Lidcombe and T2 has its own pair, branching here is not such an issue.

That said, if you were going to reinstate the Inner West line via Regents Park, you might want to make that the only route to the city from Liverpool and pick up the rest of the South line stations with frequent Cumberland line services (extending to take over Richmond branch full time).

(This would of course have to be post-Metro West to make sure you didn't overload city services from Parramatta.)
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Liamena » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:18 pm

Extend the Bankstown metro to Lidcombe, close the Sefton-Cabramatta line completely ( actually hand it over to ARTC ), run more buses.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:40 am

grog wrote:Now that T1 will use a single track pair from Homebush to Lidcombe and T2 has its own pair, branching here is not such an issue.

That said, if you were going to reinstate the Inner West line via Regents Park, you might want to make that the only route to the city from Liverpool and pick up the rest of the South line stations with frequent Cumberland line services (extending to take over Richmond branch full time).

(This would of course have to be post-Metro West to make sure you didn't overload city services from Parramatta.)

Urgh. I want a dislike button again.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Geo101 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:53 am

iamthouth wrote:Any chance of Metro West taking over SOP, and PLR extended via the rail alignment to Bankstown and Cabramatta in a future stage?


Is the metro west going to have the same or more capacity than the existing SOP line? What is the difference in capacity for the new metro (leaving in both directions) versus the existing line with the balloon loop setup?

In any case, it certainly couldn't be implemented until after the metro west was completed, and you would still be looking at a tunnel or overpass at Lidcombe unless you keep the existing requirement to transfer at Lidcombe, which would defeat the purpose I suspect.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby grog » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:04 am

simonl wrote:
grog wrote:Now that T1 will use a single track pair from Homebush to Lidcombe and T2 has its own pair, branching here is not such an issue.

That said, if you were going to reinstate the Inner West line via Regents Park, you might want to make that the only route to the city from Liverpool and pick up the rest of the South line stations with frequent Cumberland line services (extending to take over Richmond branch full time).

(This would of course have to be post-Metro West to make sure you didn't overload city services from Parramatta.)

Urgh. I want a dislike button again.


Replies work fine for expressing displeasure ;)
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Liamena » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:05 am

There is nothing wrong with the Sydney Olympic Park Line, as such.

The problem with ending the tramway from Parramatta, at Sydney Olympic Park, isn't capacity. The problem is the catastrophic impact on passenger usability of multiple interchanges. If you tried to catch the proposed tram from Wentworth Point or West Meadowbank ( or whatever it is called ), to the end of the tramway at Olympic Park, and then it takes you 15 minutes to change to the train for a 3 minute trip to Lidcombe, and then it takes another 15 minutes to change to the train at Lidcombe, then you are looking at about a 90 minute trip one-way from Wentworth Point to the CBD.

Travellers to the CBD might have to put up with this, but people going anywhere else, where they can park at their destination, will not.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby grog » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:42 am

You are ignoring the fact that they have designed this thing as a feeder for West Metro. I expect that in the end they will stage them to open at the same time, around 2026. That is 3 years after Parramatta Light Rail stage 1.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:04 pm

grog wrote:You are ignoring the fact that they have designed this thing as a feeder for West Metro. I expect that in the end they will stage them to open at the same time, around 2026. That is 3 years after Parramatta Light Rail stage 1.

Right... When has a government plan requiring two election wins to start ever actually happened without significant variation? Big difference if you are only talking about one election win.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:07 pm

Liamena wrote:There is nothing wrong with the Sydney Olympic Park Line, as such.

The problem with ending the tramway from Parramatta, at Sydney Olympic Park, isn't capacity. The problem is the catastrophic impact on passenger usability of multiple interchanges. If you tried to catch the proposed tram from Wentworth Point or West Meadowbank ( or whatever it is called ), to the end of the tramway at Olympic Park, and then it takes you 15 minutes to change to the train for a 3 minute trip to Lidcombe, and then it takes another 15 minutes to change to the train at Lidcombe, then you are looking at about a 90 minute trip one-way from Wentworth Point to the CBD.

Travellers to the CBD might have to put up with this, but people going anywhere else, where they can park at their destination, will not.

Most of those people could just as easily catch a bus across to Rhodes.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby mandonov » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:38 pm

simonl wrote:Right... When has a government plan requiring two election wins to start ever actually happened without significant variation? Big difference if you are only talking about one election win.

It's bi-partisan policy this time to build Metro West.
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