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Parramatta light rail

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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby rogf24 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:47 pm

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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby mandonov » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:57 pm

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I like it.

It doesn't duplicate Metro West, provides Wentworth Point with much needed mass transit, and passes through more easily developed precincts.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Daniel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:10 am

Melrose Park will really need the transport boost!
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Liamena » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:27 am

Well that is a novel concept, at least.

It also highlights how Silverwater Road industrial/commercial precinct is a public transport black hole.

There are probably buses, but the frequency/reliability/speed/connections would make getting there insufferably slow compared to driving, from most places.

Edit: Actually, there are buses there from Auburn, Rhodes, Strathfield and Eastwood. About 11 different fares. You'd have to be some kind of rocket scientist to figure it out. Alleged travel times between 32 and 52 minutes. This is a scenario where Trip Planner is actually very useful.

It also shows the perceptual difference between rail and light rail routes, compared to buses, particularly for infrequent users, or frequent uses straying beyond their usual haunts. Rail routes are much more obvious on the map or in the street directory or when you pass them driving around. It takes a lot more work for casual users to even figure out where buses go. And even on main roads where you know buses go, you can arrive at a main road, and not be able to see the nearest bus stop in either direction, because so many have been abolished or hidden.

I have driven also Silverwater Road hundreds of times over the years and don't recall ever seeing a bus there.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Swift » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:49 pm

Liamena wrote:
I have driven also Silverwater Road hundreds of times over the years and don't recall ever seeing a bus there.

The black hole has probably sucked them in. :wink:
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:48 pm

Liamena wrote:I have driven also Silverwater Road hundreds of times over the years and don't recall ever seeing a bus there.

The 544 operates hourly along Silverwater Road Mondays to Saturdays.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:58 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:
Liamena wrote:I have driven also Silverwater Road hundreds of times over the years and don't recall ever seeing a bus there.

The 544 operates hourly along Silverwater Road Mondays to Saturdays.

The 544 and 525 do not use most of Silverwater Rd, only the bit between Holker St and Victoria Rd and perhaps a little at the south end. It surprised me a bit the other day actually.

Daniel wrote:Melrose Park will really need the transport boost!

Is there really that much development happening there? And how much use is a line which only goes away from the CBD, or requires a double change?

Am I missing a joke? Why wouldn't you grab an M52 to West Ryde and a train?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Daniel » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:31 pm

Significant high density growth is planned. There is no point these future residents overcrowding the existing train services. Better to get them onto a new light rail line to feed directly into a Metro service at Olympic Park. This is the sort of timeframe of development we are talking about.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:59 pm

That is if the metro actually happens. There is likely more than one election to win before it does.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Liamena » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:02 am

Quite a lot of people work around Silverwater. Providing efficient transport for "the last three kilometres" is important. For many people travelling a fairly long way, they have the option of driving their own car 3 km or 6 km or 10 km to the nearest station, and parking there, and catching the train. At least in principle. Tens of thousands of people actually do this. Most people going to the CBD can then walk to their destination.

But if you swap this around, and live near the station, but your work is 5 km from the nearest destination station, then this plan doesn't work. You could buy an old car, and keep it at the destination station, and drive it to work. Some people do this, it is not very practical for a number of obvious reasons. You could try buying a bike and leaving it permanently at the destination station. Some people also do this. You could try taking a bike on the train.

This problem is one of the reasons that such a high proportion of non-CBD workers drive to work. If there were really good feeder buses into commericial areas remote from the trains, such as Silverwater, or most of the Artarmon commercial area, then more people would regard public transport as a more viable option.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby tonyp » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:21 am

Liamena wrote:
This problem is one of the reasons that such a high proportion of non-CBD workers drive to work. If there were really good feeder buses into commericial areas remote from the trains, such as Silverwater, or most of the Artarmon commercial area, then more people would regard public transport as a more viable option.

Transperth provides good feeders into commercial areas but it's hard to make an impact on driving in a nation generally hooked on it because good roads have been provided as first political priority since the 1950s, plus there's plenty of parking available in these non CBD commercial areas/business parks. The only thing that will change it is when congestion becomes so severe it's very difficult to drive, but that then affects buses too.

Perth's approach is to build train lines and make the train journeys so fast that driving can't possibly compete with them, then provide fairly intense bus feeders to and from the nearest rail station. In this way the overall train+bus journey time is quite quick. Sydney is a very long way behind this. The train journeys are too slow for starters, let alone the quality of bus connections. It's only congestion that drives people to public transport where they are desperate enough to accept even a slow public transport journey. It's a long road to improvement in Sydney and that journey has to start with the trains. It's hard to see trams make an inroad into this situation because they are by nature quite slow because their function is to provide mass transit over short distances with stops every 500 metres or so.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Swift » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:27 am

Liamena wrote:
This problem is one of the reasons that such a high proportion of non-CBD workers drive to work. If there were really good feeder buses into commericial areas remote from the trains, such as Silverwater, or most of the Artarmon commercial area, then more people would regard public transport as a more viable option.

Yep, Artarmon is in the cruel situation where it is sandwiched by PT trunks but continues to be a black hole in the employment areas that lie between. it used to be at least partially filled by the small family operator, but the large concerns that now rule the roost have no time to provide what is needed in such a locale.

Onto trains, I caught an inner west service from Central to Strathfield and was shocked at how slowly the train creeped along there. I guess I am used to riding the expresses along that corridor but really?? It should be named the Inner West Dawdler!
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Frosty » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 pm

The Botany Rd corridor has quite good transport serving the commercial & industrial areas. I often think there is more buses running in the counter peak direction.

In theory we could just resort to the old style Sydney solution of just having express buses from outer suburbs straight into the CBD. They could have faster buses Rydalmere & Melrose Park like limited stops to Ryde then express to the CBD via Victoria Rd. Unlike the current situation along Vic Rd where all m52 services are limited stops to Ryde then all stops to Parra and the expresses simply run all stops from Drummoyne.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:47 pm

We are getting totally off the subject - this has nothing to do with Parramatta Light Rail.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:40 pm

The Perth comparisons have been split into a separate thread in the National section. It now wont be necessary to duplicate such discussion into various other threads.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Daniel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:22 pm


New Parramatta light rail route to slash Olympic Park travel times
Matthew Benns, Editor at Large, The Daily Telegraph
October 18, 2017 9:33am

PLANS to tackle Western Sydney’s commuter crisis are on track with Parramatta’s new “congestion busting” light rail route.

The revised stage two blueprint, revealed exclusively today by The Daily Telegraph, takes in suburbs previously starved of transport links to the river’s north and includes a surprise river crossing.

“The NSW government is busting congestion with Parramatta Light Rail stage two,” Transport Minister Andrew Constance said.

The new 9km link would pass through Ermington, Melrose Park and Meadowbank before crossing the river and heading to Wentworth Point, Silverwater and Sydney Olympic Park.

Capture5.JPG
Capture5.JPG (130.53 KiB) Viewed 9404 times


“We have done our homework and we know that a route north of the river makes the most sense and provides the best public transport uplift,” Mr Constance said.

“It will get people from suburbs north of the river off buses and onto a quick transport link that will deliver them to future Sydney Metro West underground stations, heavy rail in Parramatta and Olympic Park, and ferry services at Rydalmere and Olympic Park.

“This is a remarkable project that can provide greater opportunity to revitalise centres in places like ­Ermington and Wentworth Point, providing a huge uplift for communities and finally giving these areas the ­reliable public transport they have been starved of.”

The proposed new line will connect with the $1 billion first stage at Rydalmere and will include a rail and cycle crossing of the river.

An alternative route from Camellia to South Street is also an option and would also involve a second river crossing.

“We’ve invested $1 billion to get stage one of Parra­matta Light Rail from Westmead to Carlingford under way and we are not stopping there. Stage two is now also a reality that we are planning for, meaning a total transformation for Greater Parramatta is just around the corner,” Mr Constance said.

The second stage would have 10-12 stops with travel times of around 25 minutes from Olympic Park to ­Camellia before joining with the first stage for a further eight minute ride to Parramatta CBD.

“It gives people another transport option to get to Sydney Olympic Park,” said Mr Constance, who is expec­ted to discuss the future ­revamp of ANZ Stadium with cabinet tomorrow.

“The next stage of Parramatta Light Rail will connect to Sydney Olympic Park and be able to move thousands of people to and from the destination every day and provide a huge public transport boost for major events.”

Tax consultant Lily Kong, 23, currently drives from her home at Dundas and parks at Olympic Park for any sporting events.

“Driving is a hassle, parking is a hassle, I cannot wait for a light rail link to Olympic Park,” she said.

Commuter Lily Kong will be an enthusiastic user of the new Parramatta light rail. Picture: Christian Gilles
And anytime she wants to take a trip into the city she drives to West Ryde and parks her car.

“I think the light rail will really change things for everyone here and make commuting and travelling to Parramatta and the city so much easier,” Ms Kong said.

The proposed route also goes beyond Sydney Olympic Park to Carter Street and boosts plans for a new precinct there.

The first stage is expected to be up and running by 2023. A business case for the proposed route is ­expected to be completed next year.

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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby mandonov » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:39 pm

Parramatta Light Rail to Sydney Olympic Park

Published18 Oct 2017

The Parramatta Light Rail will provide reliable and modern public transport service to Sydney Olympic Park, with the NSW Government today announcing plans for the stage 2 extension of the project.

Premier Gladys Berejiklian today confirmed planning for Stage 2 was underway and is expected to be completed throughout 2018.

“I am pleased to announce Parramatta Light Rail Stage 2 is another step closer to connecting Greater Parramatta to the booming sport, entertainment and employment hub at Sydney Olympic Park,” Ms Berejiklian said.

“Our preferred nine kilometre route will connect with Stage 1 of the project north of the Parramatta River through the suburbs of Ermington, Melrose Park, Wentworth Point and on to Sydney Olympic Park.

“The exciting plan supports new communities and the creation of public places between Camellia and Ermington and future development planned for Melrose Park,” Ms Berejiklian said.

Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance said the NSW Government has started work on a business case for the preferred route north of Parramatta River which is considered the best option to achieve a fully integrated transport and land use plan for the precincts.

“We are going to finalise a business case for this project by the end of 2018 and are working with communities to ensure we can maximise the potential for this option,” Mr Constance said.

“We know it will provide a direct, frequent and reliable public transport connection for these areas and connects the new Western Sydney University campus at Sydney Olympic Park with its three campuses serviced by Stage 1.

“Light rail will also realise Sydney Olympic Park’s potential as Sydney’s premier destination for cultural, entertainment, recreation and sporting events, as well as linking businesses and residents in surrounding areas,” Mr Constance said.

A Final Business Case for Stage 2 is expected to be completed in 2018, with an investment decision and details on the timing of construction to follow.

The Environmental Impact Statement for Stage 1 of the project is on exhibition until 23 October and expressions of interest have been sought to design and construct, supply, operate and maintain the network.

Construction on Stage 1 will start in 2018, pending planning approval and will begin operating in 2023.

Find out more about Stage 1 and 2 of Parramatta Light Rail at:
www.parramattalightrail.nsw.gov.au

Render: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ts0yybpnvgqfk ... dl=0%C2%A0

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/newsro ... ympic-park
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Liamena » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:33 pm

They could go round the western side of the Olympic Park complex, and walkably service Newington. Or round the east side, and service the park. It seems to me, servicing the east side is not the optimum option.

It really also should connected to the rail at the other end.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby flitter » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:08 pm

The eastern (Rhodes) side is going to be the new town centre with lots of housing there. Does SOP railway station not count as rail?


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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Geo101 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:29 pm

Seems like a very strange route to take?

1. Considering that running down South street, etc on a Saturday will have no patrons. That area is dead (PT wise) after 9 am each weekday and similar after 6 pm. Sat, Sun & PH's does anyone even use PT in these areas.

(What is the demand for the 521 route?)

2. They have just in the latest timetable upgraded the Carlingford line from a half-hourly norm to one an hour (EDIT: OK, the other way around!!), perhaps to get them used to the 20-minute frequency of the light rail, which will still be half empty, etc.

3. If they do put the next metro from the city to Parramatta, who will be using the light rail which will take over half an hour to get from Parra to ANZ? The metro will do it in a few minutes. It will probably be quicker to catch an express into the city, jump off at Redfern, catch a train back to Lidcombe, and get the existing 10min transfer to Olympic Park.

etc..

IF, they are going to include highrise, etc. Then it makes sense.

But surely spending those dollars somewhere else might be more appropriate?

For the record, I'm Inner west, I have no problems with spending the money in the Western suburbs, and don't want to even annoy people who live there with my opinion. But seriously, that route makes no sense at all.

Please explain?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:59 pm

If the government plans to put light rail down a street, it is because they plan to put high rise in that street.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby GazzaOak » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:06 pm

I think that a good idea to accompany the metro that is being planned.... hope both come into fruition....
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Geo101 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:19 pm

boronia wrote:If the government plans to put light rail down a street, it is because they plan to put high rise in that street.


OK. That part I understand, sort of.

So Olympic Park gets

1. Existing rail seemed to work well at the 2000 Olympics, now runs every 10 minutes from the mainline, from 5 am to midnight 7 days a week.
2. A new metro station on the next metro, and probably a similar timetable.
AND
3. A tram line, erm, LR which meanders from Westmead back and forth across industrial wastelands and places like Ermington, come potential high rise areas, and get there in a slower time?

I'm by no means arguing that new infill areas shouldn't have PT such as light rail enforced, but...

As an Inner west type person, I was stunned by this new route.
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Geo101 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:53 pm

GazzaOak wrote:I think that a good idea to accompany the metro that is being planned.... hope both come into fruition....


So not to troll, and remembering both may not happen without funding, do you think both the current proposal for the metro and Parra stage 2 light rail is the way to go?

I can't argue against a metro from the city to Parra via Olympic park, the figures are frightening, but they do add up unless you are ignorant, but a light rail as well?

What is it about Olympic park I don't know about?
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Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby mandonov » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:56 pm

Your thinking about it as the end to end trip, which is the wrong way to understand it.

It's much more about the in-between places, and how the residents and workers there (exisiting and future) can access employment and services in Parramatta and Olympic Park, as well as to feed the new metro.

Wentworth Point is set to be the densest suburb in the country. It's currently only served by a slow ferry and a bridge to a train station. The light rail will enable those many thousands of residents to not only easily access Parramatta, but also Sydney CBD via the metro at Olympic Park. There is also a lot of development in the pipeline for Melrose Park which will benefit enormously from this.

This light rail line and the metro are very complimentary of each other. The only reason this is going north of the river is because the metro is going south of the river.
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