• Advertisement

Parramatta light rail

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:28 pm

The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again June 2020
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 18789
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 277 times
Been thanked: 1785 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Glen » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:56 am

Not sure if this link has been posted before.
Parramatta Light Rail Stage 1, which will connect Westmead to Carlingford via the Parramatta CBD and Camellia, will utilise a combination of overhead wires and approximately four kilometres of wire-free operation.

http://www.parramattalightrail.nsw.gov. ... amatta-cbd
Glen
 
Posts: 2816
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby mandonov » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:29 pm

moa999 wrote:
Glen wrote:A Newcastle Herald article comparing power systems for theirs and the Parramatta light rail lines:

https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5843 ... extension/
As I understand from a couple of pieces I have read.

The Newcastle system does use wires to and from and around the depot (so is capable of wire operation). Unsure if the wires can also charge the capacitor (you would think so)

Capacitor charge is reportedly capable of powering the tram for about 1300m, so comfortable reserve with stops 400-500m apart.

I don't think it's been stated whether Parramatta will use the same capacitor system (or some alternative battery solution - the CAF website mentions both as available)


The proposed Parramatta wire free sections Westmead-Cumberland and Prince Alfred-Tramway are all short sections (although Cumberland to Children's Hospital is 7-800m) and I suspect at stop charging is less of an issue in the Parramatta core as the stops will likely be fairly high turnover so will need a lengthy dwell anyway

Although as just posted on the Parra thread this article - http://www.parramattalightrail.nsw.gov. ... amatta-cbd
Mentions batteries and ground level charging at Westmead which possibly suggests no at stop charging and a 2-3km battery capacity

Just shifting this conversation here.

The mention of the ground level conductor rail at the Westmead stop appears to confirm that instead of Newcastle's pantograph charging, the Parramatta system will charge via a shoe on the underside of the vehicle. The raising and the lowering of the pantograph in Newcastle takes a long time (relatively) because it's about 2 metres from the power source. The shoe and rail setup should be much quicker as they are mere centimetres away from each other.
mandonov
 
Posts: 1635
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 174 times
Been thanked: 379 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby matthewg » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:57 pm

mandonov wrote:
The mention of the ground level conductor rail at the Westmead stop appears to confirm that instead of Newcastle's pantograph charging, the Parramatta system will charge via a shoe on the underside of the vehicle. The raising and the lowering of the pantograph in Newcastle takes a long time (relatively) because it's about 2 metres from the power source. The shoe and rail setup should be much quicker as they are mere centimetres away from each other.


The shoe is much more likely to be damaged by something on the track though and it has more safety proving involved before energising the conductor rail.

I can just imagine running over a stay soccer ball damaging a shoe and preventing it deploying at the next stop - or the leading shoe gets a piece of stay rubbish plastic wrap around it and the tram faults out when it didn't detect power coming in on that shoe. Alstom certainly uses shoes in pairs (fore and aft of the bogie) for APS, but if one is mechanically damaged and will not lower, the system will fault.

The NSW government is a sucker for glitzy toys.
CAF and Alstom must be loving it.
matthewg
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 pm
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 353 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby moa999 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Think it's more that the at-stop charging is only at Westmead.

Say for 3minutes (turnaround time of the Newcastle sets) which will give it battery (not capacitor) charge to Cumberland.

Then you've got 3-4min on wire to Prince Alfred Square, which gives you the charge to make it to Tramway Ave
moa999
 
Posts: 2357
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 394 times
Been thanked: 355 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Tue May 14, 2019 6:30 pm

A preview of the Parramatta Tramway on Ch 9 News tonight showed sections of track being in grassed reserves, with refrences to similar installations in France.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again June 2020
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 18789
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 277 times
Been thanked: 1785 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby mandonov » Tue May 14, 2019 6:49 pm

That would be fitting for the section around Cumberland Hospital and the heritage precinct, which is also wire free. Shame they didn't do it along Centennial and Moore Park.
mandonov
 
Posts: 1635
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 174 times
Been thanked: 379 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby tonyp » Tue May 14, 2019 7:04 pm

It's the TfNSW learning curve in process. By 2050 they'll be building perfect tramways.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 8777
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 1229 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Swift » Tue May 14, 2019 7:55 pm

This tramway will have far more benefits to it's area than the CSELR will for it's catchment, which is already spoilt by multiple bus services sharing trunks.
This is the one to watch.
MAN SL200 & Mercedes 0 305:essentially the same bus.
Brisbane: SL200, Sydney 0305, Canberra both, Melbourne SL200, Hobart neither, Adelaide both, Perth 0305, Parramatta Ryde SL200 :P
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 10542
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 671 times
Been thanked: 544 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby tonyp » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:10 am

Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 8777
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 1229 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby kypros1992 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:39 pm

The Carlingford Line will close on the 5th Jan 2020 (posted in the Govt Gazette 28/6)

The Sandown Line officially was closed the first of this month
kypros1992
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:14 am
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby ed24 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:01 pm

'Looking for jobs': second stage of Parramatta light rail line in doubt
SMH: Matt O'Sullivan
The second stage of the multibillion-dollar Parramatta light rail line is in serious doubt after the team working on the project was reduced to a handful of people amid uncertainty about the Berejiklian government's willingness to proceed.

Emails seen by the Herald show those working on plans for the line from Rydalmere to Olympic Park via Melrose Park and Wentworth Point are looking for jobs after work dried up. Up to 50 staff, including contractors and transport agency employees were working on the project two months ago, but that number has since shrunk to about five.

"Everyone is looking for jobs," a source said. "A handful of people have been kept on."

In another blow, the program director for Parramatta light rail, Tim Poole, left his role several weeks ago for a position as chief operating officer at the delivery authority responsible for the Western Sydney Aerotropolis, a precinct next to the new airport under construction at Badgerys Creek.

The second stage of the light rail line, which was planned to extend for nine kilometres, has been complicated by the government's ambitious plans for a $20 billion-plus metro rail line between Parramatta and the central city.

The government is under pressure to fund a second wave of transport projects – costing tens of billions of dollars – it has promised, including Sydney Metro West and another metro rail line from St Marys to the airport at Badgerys. The latter is due to be completed by 2026.

Cabinet is due to consider the final route for Sydney Metro West in the next two weeks.

Transport for NSW said a "number of contractors" had completed their roles on the second stage of the Parramatta light rail project, while a "small number" of the agency's staff had been been redeployed.


Would be a shame if this line goes considering what's happening in the area - but as stated elsewhere with budgets getting tighter something has to give. I imagine the final Metro alignment may try to pick-up some of the slack instead?
ed24
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:04 am
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Geo101 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:55 pm

ed24 wrote:
I imagine the final Metro alignment may try to pick up some of the slack instead?


That could be a possible outcome.
Geo101
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:55 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Transtopic » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:37 pm

Should have stuck with the original Parramatta to Macquarie Park light rail route from the Carlingford Line at Dundas via Kissing Point Rd and the Eastwood County Road corridor reservation. After all, the intent was to provide a high standard public transport link between two of Sydney's major Strategic Centres and improve direct connections between the Northern and Western Suburbs, which are currently lacking. It's more direct, rather than via Carlingford and Epping, with the advantage of being within an existing 6 lane road reservation with a wide centre median, making construction of the light rail line less disruptive to existing traffic and with minimal property resumption, if any, being required. As it stands, there appears to be little prospect of it being extended beyond Carlingford to Epping, let alone to Macquarie Park, because of engineering and cost challenges. The whole purpose of providing a light rail route between Parramatta and Macquarie Park has been seriously compromised and the current proposal will fall well short of achieving that outcome. While a possible metro connection is planned, that could be decades away.

Stage 2 of the Parramatta Light Rail is another example of how the focus on development potential is compromising sensible transport planning. Existing communities without adequate public transport have as much right to upgraded infrastructure as potential residents in new developments. In the early stages of planning, the route was proposed on a more direct alignment between Parramatta and Sydney Olympic Park via Camellia. However, Metro West has made that redundant. The compromise solution was for the light rail route to follow a convoluted alignment on the Carlingford route from WSU at Rydalmere on the northern side of the Parramatta River, then crossing back to the southern side via Wentworth Point to Sydney Olympic Park. Totally useless. Bus connections from Wentworth Point to the proposed Sydney Olympic Park metro station, in addition to the current service to Rhodes Station, would provide an adequate service for the level of demand. Once again, developers got their way.

Since the speculation in recent days about the government's commitment to the Stage 2 Parramatta Light Rail project, it may be an opportune time to reconsider the light rail extension from the Carlingford Line route at Dundas to Macquarie Park via Eastwood and finally realise the original objective.
Transtopic
 
Posts: 905
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:10 pm
Has thanked: 249 times
Been thanked: 178 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Mentioned elsewhere in the last couple of days that the "Newcastle LR implementation head" had been transferred to the Parramatta project.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again June 2020
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 18789
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 277 times
Been thanked: 1785 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:40 pm

The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again June 2020
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 18789
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 277 times
Been thanked: 1785 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:15 am

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... 47a21aaa08

OPINION
David Borger: Don’t give up on Parramatta’s light rail needs
During the state election, Premier Gladys Berejiklian told the voters of NSW that “they can have it all” when it came to the ­Government’s long list of election promises.
David Borger, The Daily Telegraph

August 14, 2019 5:46pm

Fears Parramatta light rail Stage 2 hangs in doubt
Plans for 1km green track in Parramatta light rail Stage 1
$561m for Parramatta light rails in NSW Budget 2019
During the state election, Premier Gladys Berejiklian told the voters of NSW that “they can have it all” when it came to the ­Government’s long list of election promises.

Many of these promises to rebuild Sydney’s public transport infrastructure are now under construction. Some are in the final stages of ­detailed engineering and planning work.

A 2018 artist impression of the Parramatta light rail on Lennox Bridge, which will be part of Stage 1.
And one, the second leg of Parramatta Light Rail is, according to reports, at risk of being scrapped all together.

The government has split the project into two stages. Stage 1, which will start construction next year, will ­deliver a light rail route along the Carlingford rail corridor to Parra­matta and Westmead, will open in 2023.

Stage 2, which would ­expand the route to Olympic Park along the north foreshore of the Parramatta River taking in the suburbs of Rydalmere, Ermington, Melrose Park and Wentworth Point is now looking shaky, according to recent reports.

According to the forecast by SGS Planning, the region between Parramatta and the Olympic Peninsula, known as G-POP, is anticipated to more than double in population from 107,000 people in 2016 to 278,000 in 2036. That will be the same size as eastern Sydney today.

Melrose Park alone will see an ­additional 5000 apartments in the next four years. But where the Sydney CBD will soon become the beneficiary of a shiny new light rail down ­George St and out to the eastern suburbs, it’s looking more like the residents between Parramatta and Olympic Park will have to make do with a cost-cutting bus service instead of mass transit light rail.

While Parramatta has embraced higher densities along the light rail corridor, eastern Sydney has opposed new development.

The proposed Stage 1 and Stage 2 of the Parramatta light rail.
The Government has invested a lot of blood, sweat and tears in the narrative that it is building the infrastructure we need to support the growth of our city — and they have been.

But to now abandon Parramatta Light Rail Stage 2 would strike at the very heart of the narrative they have worked so hard on — it only takes one scrapped project for the public to lose faith in the promises of a ­government.

We hear that Parramatta Light Rail Stage 2 has a very attractive business case — generating more benefits than it would cost to build.

The Government should release this information so the public can make an informed decision on this project — millions of taxpayers’ dollars are spent on detailed reports and studies but the public rarely has ­access to this information.

A 2018 artist impression of the Parramatta light rail at Western Sydney University.
The suburbs of Ermington and Rydalmere are peppered with public housing that are long passed their use-by dates and need to be renewed to reflect the changing needs of public housing tenants.

Building light rail through these areas will connect some of our communities most vulnerable with key support services and job opportunities in Parramatta and the Sydney CBD via Metro West.

Melrose Park and Wentworth Point will be like slices of Manhattan that have been sailed down the Parramatta River but are at risk of being stranded without mass public transport to connect these higher density communities to their jobs and city amenities.

A 2018 artist impress of a section of green track for the Parramatta light rail Stage 1.
The active transport link planned for the Parramatta light rail
We have an opportunity to show that we can develop a great liveable model for higher density neighbourhoods.

Great architecture, great urban design and great amenity — but only if it is connected by great public transport.

David Borger is the Executive Director of Western Sydney Business Chamber and a former NSW Government Minister and Lord Mayor of Parramatta.

A 2018 artist impression of the Telopea stop for the Parramatta light rail.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 8777
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 1229 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby boronia » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:21 am

The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again June 2020
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 18789
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 277 times
Been thanked: 1785 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Swift » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:28 pm

Writing is on the wall. This is the conditioning stage for no second stage. Fanfare of the first stage opening will be enough to appear like the government achieved something. It's how thus crummy state rolls.
MAN SL200 & Mercedes 0 305:essentially the same bus.
Brisbane: SL200, Sydney 0305, Canberra both, Melbourne SL200, Hobart neither, Adelaide both, Perth 0305, Parramatta Ryde SL200 :P
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 10542
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 671 times
Been thanked: 544 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: NSW Railway Observations 2019

Postby moa999 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:17 pm

T6 Carlingford Line closes 5 Jan 2020,
Replaced by 535 bus until Parramatta Light Rail opens in 2023
http://www.parramattalightrail.nsw.gov. ... gford-line
moa999
 
Posts: 2357
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 394 times
Been thanked: 355 times

Re: NSW Railway Observations 2019

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:48 pm

To be operated by Transdev? They used this route number recently for a ferry replacement service between Parramatta and Olympic Park.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 21044
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 1099 times
Been thanked: 1188 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Richard290 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:50 pm

https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/node/5893
Carlingford Line set to close from 5 January 2020 for conversion to Parramatta Light Rail.
This follows the issue of a media release issued today, whose screenshot can be viewed here:

https://www.facebook.com/parraepping

Image
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of 513, 546, 549, 550, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
User avatar
Richard290
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:39 am
Location: Carlingford, NSW
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby neilrex » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:48 pm

Richard290 wrote:https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/node/5893
Carlingford Line set to close from 5 January 2020 for conversion to Parramatta Light Rail.


So being sceptical, I had a look at the claims that commuters from Carlingford to the CBD by train will be worse
off, or not.

I looked at train trips from Carlingford Station to Town Hall station on weekday mornings. Departures are at 6:15, 6:45, 7:15, 7:45, 8:15, 8:45, 9:15. Travel times range from 53 to 64 minutes, mostly 56 minutes.

The 53 minute options are at 6:45, 7:15 and 7:45 which would be the major times for regular commuters. These involve changing twice, first at Clyde then at Strathfield to a T1/T9 train which skips more stations between Strathfield and Central, compared to the T2. This saves 3 minutes, reducing the time from 56 to 53 minutes compared to staying on the T2. If I got a seat on the T2 at Clyde, I am doubtful that I would bother to do this.

Standard fare is $5.15 or $3.60 if off-peak ( 6:45 or earlier, 9:15 or later ).


Trains from Paramatta run every 6 minutes or better, at least between 6:45 and 8:15. The claimed time from Parramatta to Town Hall is 28 minutes. The bus journey time is claimed to be in the range 20 to 30 minutes depending on traffic. If the bus takes 30 minutes, you have 30 minutes + 4 minutes walk + random delay waiting ( 3 mins avg, 8 mins worst case ) + 28 mins travel time, which comes to 65 minutes.

So the bus/train is going to be 12 minutes longer ( 65 mins vs 53 mins ), which is a whopping 20% increase in travel time over the current journey.

Current buses in the AM peak take 28 minutes from Caringford to Parramatta, that's along Pennant Hills road, it is hard to see how going to Rydalmere and Camellia stations would not be quite a lot slower.

Fare will be $3.73 + $5.15 - $2 = $6.88 This is a 33% increase over the existing train fare. Actually, that's a bus + train fare. The FAQ says the new bus will charge train fares. If true, then the increase would be smaller. But a 33% increase is what you would pay if you chose to use the Pennant Hills road 545 or 550 instead of the new bus, coming or going.

A comment about interchange times, because a lot of people assess those wrongly.

At Clyde, if the T2 service towards the city is scheduled 6 minutes after the T6 train arrives, and it takes 4 minutes to change platforms, then you DONT add those times together and estimate 10 minutes. Because they are scheduled services, and, if they are running on time, then you get off the first train, spend 4 minutes on the stairs, and then wait 2 minutes for the second train, you don't count 4 minutes twice.

When changing from a bus to a train at Parramatta, you need to calculate a bit d9fferently. The bus may have a timetable, but it is actually going to arrive at some basically random time between 25 and 35 minutes after it leaves Carlingford. Even if the traffic is uncongested, the traffic lights will do this. You then have 4 minutes walk to the platform, where the passenger then arrives at some time which is basically random with respect to the train schedule. The interchange waiting time doesn't start until the passenger gets to the platform. If the trains are running on schedule, every six minutes, say, then you have a wait which is on average 3 minutes and worst case 6 minutes for the train to arrive. The walking time gets added, separate to this.

In this scheme, the variation in bus outcomes is going to cause more uncertainty to the arrival time in the CBD, than random interchange delays. That is because the trains are reasonably frequent. And also, for the current T6 service, the T6 service are intentionally scheduled to arrive at an appropriate time relative to the T2, even if the T2 was also infrequent ( and maybe intentionally done this way only in the most popular direction ).

Any reasonably organised commuter can currently travel from Carlingford to Town Hall in 53 minutes. In future, it is going to take 65 minutes. And that is before considering the frequency of "major disruptions". That is not ""a couple of minutes". That's a 20% increase. It's two hours of extra travelling time per week.
neilrex
 
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:34 pm
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby swtt » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:28 pm

In reality Carlingford Station patronage would not be going to the CBD via the T6 line. They would use route 550 to Epping and then change for the various multitude of transport options from there.

Sent from my Huawei P30 Pro using Tapatalk
User avatar
swtt
 
Posts: 5188
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:49 pm
Has thanked: 969 times
Been thanked: 413 times

Re: Parramatta light rail

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:38 pm

And that will become even more appealing once the Metro is extended to the CBD.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 21044
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 1099 times
Been thanked: 1188 times

PreviousNext


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Sydney / NSW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Swift and 10 guests