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Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beaches

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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby burrumbus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:20 pm

I also sampled the B1 from Warringah Mall to Wynyard last Friday evening as well.Very impressed with the vehicle and the service in general.Fast ,direct and on time.And carried around 70 pax for the trip without crowding like another thread running here.Observations of many B1's showed very healthy loadings.The driver didn't need to flog the bus to keep time.Just a nice steady pace with very good ride quality.
In essence its a tram or tram.As swift stated people need to get with the times and realise that this will be a markedly different service and more efficient service,but will require transfers.The network on the Northern Beaches has needed a quality service with far less route variations for decades.
The route network still needs more simplifcation .The driver of the B1 said that is the intention,not withstanding the silly reactions of the Newport and other folk.
Agree with swift.Half a billion dollars well spent.
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:49 pm

Swift wrote:The usual politicking holding onto the L90 to appease dumb old people who won't get with the times, real or imagined. And certain members wonder why I have contempt for my home state.
Half a billion dollars well spent.


Quality post.

I'd like to see them just light a match and do away with the L90 because we just dont need it anymore (and see the hysterical reactions provoked from those older conservatives that do not want to move on!). I actually adapted just fine. You have a super-high frequent B1 service from Wynyard for an express to the major hotspots of the Northern Beaches up to Mona Fail, and if you then need to go to Palm Beach, then theres the 199 which has a frequency comparable, if not better, than the old L90 it replaced. Yes its all stops, but taking B1 to the end and then changing to 199 is perfectly fine. If you need a stop thats not a major hotspot, then the all stops 178 and 180 provide adequate coverage along the same route. Using this logic -see L90 doesn't really need to exist.

Besides what people have already said, the pure fact alone L90 has an HOURLY service, not even every half hour, but HOURLY. Thats just, is this even worth the investment? And also, the extremely oddly specific hours, between morning and arvo peak ONLY. You know what, I actually forgot the L90 existed until I saw a standard bus (or two or 3) running it and hence I posted here.

What I'd say is, keep it for a year just for the nostalgia and I guess nice to directly compare to B1, but when B1 gets extended to Newport and L90 loses even more of its already diminished value, then time to scrap it. When the CSELR opens, pretty sure the "equivalent" bus line thats gunna get superseded won't be retained, but we'll see, time to be fair.

Swift wrote:
burrumbus wrote:Very impressed with the vehicle...
Not designed here, that's why!!


Yup. It also makes me pleasantly remember my last trip to Berlin. Not just MAN being German, but also the yellow colour scheme.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:09 am

Does the 199 avoid the blinkin Newport Arms diversion? Of not, will the eventual extension of the B to Newport allow me to when travelling beyond?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:22 am

Swift wrote:Does the 199 avoid the blinkin Newport Arms diversion? Of not, will the eventual extension of the B to Newport allow me to when travelling beyond?



199 does do the Newport Loop, fortunately or unfortunately.

As for the second question, I don't know for certain but I doubt B-Line would go through the Newport Loop because of the narrowness, trees, as well as the fact that its an express, so it would stay on Barrenjoey Rd.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:35 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
As for the second question, I don't know for certain but I doubt B-Line would go through the Newport Loop because of the narrowness, trees, as well as the fact that its an express, so it would stay on Barrenjoey Rd.

I don't doubt that the deckers will be kept right off that time eating loop, I'm just hoping the 199 can be interchanged before and after it. Going through it on the old L90 was akin to a mild case of Chinese water torture, when you travel the entire route.
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby J_Busworth » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:04 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:\
I'd like to see them just light a match and do away with the L90 because we just dont need it anymore (and see the hysterical reactions provoked from those older conservatives that do not want to move on!). I actually adapted just fine. You have a super-high frequent B1 service from Wynyard for an express to the major hotspots of the Northern Beaches up to Mona Fail, and if you then need to go to Palm Beach, then theres the 199 which has a frequency comparable, if not better, than the old L90 it replaced. Yes its all stops, but taking B1 to the end and then changing to 199 is perfectly fine. If you need a stop thats not a major hotspot, then the all stops 178 and 180 provide adequate coverage along the same route. Using this logic -see L90 doesn't really need to exist.

Besides what people have already said, the pure fact alone L90 has an HOURLY service, not even every half hour, but HOURLY. Thats just, is this even worth the investment? And also, the extremely oddly specific hours, between morning and arvo peak ONLY. You know what, I actually forgot the L90 existed until I saw a standard bus (or two or 3) running it and hence I posted here.

What I'd say is, keep it for a year just for the nostalgia and I guess nice to directly compare to B1, but when B1 gets extended to Newport and L90 loses even more of its already diminished value, then time to scrap it. When the CSELR opens, pretty sure the "equivalent" bus line thats gunna get superseded won't be retained, but we'll see, time to be fair.



The the punters are going to be happy with changing, it needs to be a seamless transfer. There have been instances where people have caught the B1 up to Mona Vale and then waited 45 minutes for a bus up to Palm Beach, with multiple Avalon 199s coming past in that time. People will only be happy with seamless transfer, so when they drop the L90 the 199 needs at least a 20 minute frequency up to Palm Beach .

CSELR is a different story as it actually doesn't duplicate any of the routes like the B1 does with the L90, if you cut all the routes, It would leave large areas without a bus service. I live in Coogee, but the nearest stop where my bus connects to the CSELR is actually not till the Racecourse stop, which isn't a good place to terminate buses. I think most routes that somewhat duplicate the route in its entirety (run between the terminus and either Central/Circular Quay) should be cut at the terminus. But the other routes which only make connections in the middle of the route need to be retained. This would be to continue to provide services to the Cleveland Street and Albion/Foveaux corridors which would otherwise be unserved as the one stop on Devonshire Street is quite a distance away.
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:12 am

Thanks, J_Busworth.

Otherwise, for the fans, 2886 is running on 343 this morning I saw a bit earlier. Whether it’s the entire day or just a peak run, not sure

EDIT - seen three L90’s outside Wynyard just now coming in and out, morning coffee - 1x Volvo B10 APG Orana, 2x Volvo B12CB60, one of which was an early series :)

Mmmm soon looks like L90 will be the new 380 with roster choices designed to troll pax to the max
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:46 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:

199 does do the Newport Loop, fortunately or unfortunately.

As for the second question, I don't know for certain but I doubt B-Line would go through the Newport Loop because of the narrowness, trees, as well as the fact that its an express, so it would stay on Barrenjoey Rd.


Yep B-line will skip newport loop..... finally a an off peak route that skip the newport loop.... they should make the hourly L90 skip the loop since there a decent 199 filling the void....
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:15 pm

Could B-Line ever reach Avalon?
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby ay7744 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:38 pm

In regards to the Northern Beaches buses:

There should be a metrobus service operating all stops between Narrabeen and Wynyard (w/ pick up/set down restrictions after Spit Jn). This would give commuters (from smaller stops) between Narrabeen and Dee Why an off-peak service into the City. This service should be aimed at replacing the E75 (very low patronage) and E85 (replaced with peak hour 185s). This service should also truncate the 178 to Cromer Heights to Warringah Mall, truncate the 180 to Collaroy Plateau to Warringah Mall and truncate the E83 (renumber to 183) to Elanora Heights to Narrabeen. The truncated services would then serve as feeder/local services, further simplifying the network. This service should be operated by Northern Beaches bendies converted to metrobuses.

The 136 and 144s should regularly be having articulated buses NOT just school holidays or weekends.

E60 needs a timetable shakeup.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby booma » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Yes, however kamikaze corner has to be fixed first...
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:57 pm

Is Bilgola bends too much for the yellow men to make Soap Bay?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:27 pm

I think the b-line can reach avalon.... but minor changes are needed on the bends....
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STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Richard290 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:35 pm

ay7744 wrote:In regards to the Northern Beaches buses:

There should be a metrobus service operating all stops between Narrabeen and Wynyard... ...replacing the E75 (very low patronage) and E85 (replaced with peak hour 185s).

I think you mean the former L85 which ran half-hourly stopping all stops from Narrabeen to King Street, Manly Vale, then Spit Junction and Neutral Bay Junction.
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Re: STA Observations - January to June 2018

Postby ay7744 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:46 pm

Richard290 wrote:
ay7744 wrote:In regards to the Northern Beaches buses:

There should be a metrobus service operating all stops between Narrabeen and Wynyard... ...replacing the E75 (very low patronage) and E85 (replaced with peak hour 185s).

I think you mean the former L85 which ran half-hourly stopping all stops from Narrabeen to King Street, Manly Vale, then Spit Junction and Neutral Bay Junction.


I don’t mean the L85 because the service I’m suggesting is to run via Balgowlah (to truncate 178/180).
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:49 pm

There were restrictions on some bus types up that way a few years ago, that were dependent on remedial work around those bends.

Was that for artics?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:22 pm

boronia wrote:There were restrictions on some bus types up that way a few years ago, that were dependent on remedial work around those bends.

Was that for artics?

You might be referring to the use of the final Atlanteans instead of any of the 30 0305G bendies the UTA couldn't use through the bends until work was completed there, leading to the withdrawal of the last deckers in 1986. I saw their withdrawal on Seven National News.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:32 pm

https://transportnsw.info/news/2018/com ... h-parkride
Commuters can park free in Dee Why with Park&Ride
Monday 15 January

On Sunday 21 January, 120 Transport Park&Ride car spaces will launch in Dee Why, providing you with up to 18 hours free parking if you make a public transport trip in that time with an accepted Opal card.

The first trial of Transport Park&Ride aims to provide more available parking spaces for public transport users. The Park&Ride trial is expected to run for up to 18 months, and additional Park&Ride car parking facilities will be introduced across Sydney during the trial.

You can get up to 18 hours of free parking each day if you take a public transport trip while your vehicle is in the Transport Park&Ride car park. All you need to do is park your vehicle and hop on a public transport service. Remember to tap on and off to complete a trip, and use the same Opal card you travelled with to tap out of the car park.

https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/w ... t-parkride
Transport Park&Ride
Park for free when you ride public transport

You can get up to 18 hours of free parking when you use a Transport Park&Ride facility and connect to public transport with your Opal card.

Located close to public transport hubs, Park&Ride helps commuters connect more easily to bus, train and ferry services.

From Sunday 21 January 2018, Park&Ride will be trialled in Dee Why, with 120 Transport Park&Ride car spaces available in the carpark at Civic Parade, Dee Why. The trial will allow commuters to connect to public transport services, including the B-Line.

Watch the video above to find out how to use Transport Park&Ride
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:29 pm



To qualify for free Transport Park&Ride parking, you must:

Be the holder of a valid Adult, Child/Youth, Gold Senior/Pensioner or Concession Opal card
Park in a dedicated Transport Park&Ride car park
Tap on and tap off with your Opal card to complete a trip on public transport
Use the same Opal card to tap out of the car park within 18 hours of entering

Note:

Opal single trip tickets, School Opal cards and contactless-enabled cards and devices (e.g. credit cards, debit cards, Apple Pay) are not accepted at Transport Park&Ride car parks.
Where your most recent Opal card transaction has been for travel on the Manly Ferry, your trip will not be recognised at Transport Park&Ride car parks and you will need to pay a parking fee.
Tap on reversals (where an Opal card is tapped on and tapped off at the same location within 30 minutes, and has not been used to complete a trip) cannot be used to validate free parking at Transport Park&Ride car parks.
Where you exit a Transport Park&Ride car park within 20 minutes of entering, you will not be required to validate car park access with an Opal card and no parking fee will apply.
If you want to use any Transport Park&Ride car park more than once and qualify for free parking, you must allow a minimum of two hours between tap outs at the exit.
These conditions apply to all Transport Park&Ride car parks at all times.
Car park users will be charged a parking fee in line with commercial parking rates where Transport Park&Ride conditions are not met.
Some car parks use number plate recognition technology to record time of entry and exit.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:09 pm

I wonder how long until they relent and allow non pt users to park all day due to intensive jumping up and down like toddlers from mentally deficient motorists?
Some cunning swine folk will find a way to cheat.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:34 pm

Swift wrote:I wonder how long until they relent and allow non pt users to park all day due to intensive jumping up and down like toddlers from mentally deficient motorists?
Some cunning swine folk will find a way to cheat.


Hopefully the government can stand its guard for once...
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby boronia » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:02 am

Swift wrote:I wonder how long until they relent and allow non pt users to park all day due to intensive jumping up and down like toddlers from mentally deficient motorists?
Some cunning swine folk will find a way to cheat.

Seems they already do. Just charge them commercial parking rates.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:56 am

mandonov wrote:http://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/northern-beaches-buses?utm_source=1528807&utm_medium=social&utm_term=212458000&utm_content=96796854&utm_campaign=tomorrowssydneyt3transitlanes&dpuid=AMsySZbaSrYEKVvqvVAimA2_XyzS

T3 TRANSIT LANES ARE CHANGING ON THE NORTHERN BEACHES

From 15 January, morning peak bus lanes will replace some T3 transit lanes on the Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore.
The changes are being made to improve reliability and efficiency of bus services.
Southbound T3 transit lanes will be removed on:
  • Burnt Bridge Creek Deviation (from Condamine Street to Sydney Road)
  • Spit and Military Roads (from Ourimbah Road, Mosman to Watson Street, Neutral Bay)
Bus lanes will operate from 6am-10am weekdays.

Does this fill in the stupid missing 100m or so around Condamine St?

Still a great improvement.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:30 am

Are there that many cars with any passengers let alone two? I guess it does make for easy detection of offending vehicles.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:41 pm

Swift wrote:Are there that many cars with any passengers let alone two? I guess it does make for easy detection of offending vehicles.

I think that's the main purpose.
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