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Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beaches

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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby booma » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:32 pm

could be Sunday running times, driver unfamiliarity with bus, unseated engine etc...

However I did feel the bus seemed slow climbing Manly road.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby marcnut1996 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:35 pm

It took exactly an hour from Wynyard to Mona Vale (4.10 pm service) and around the same time for the return trip too (same driver, 5.20(or 30) pm service). Feels fast enough, yet not dangerously fast to me.

The previous service (4.00 pm service) started engine at 4.02, but did not pick people up at Wynyard Stand B till 4.07 pm (i.e. 7 min late). It was waiting at Stand F during this time for some unknown reason.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Linto63 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:02 pm

My observations from a brief one stop trip from Neutral Bay to Wynyard. The MAN is an improvement on the Bustech deckers, felt more spacious individual bucket seats being notable. However like on the Bustech, the staircase felt cramped, certainly compared to deckers I have ridden in other countries. Unloading at Wynyard was slowish, but given that many of the patrons may have been unfamiliar in the art of alighting a decker, not surprising.

Only caught a fleeting glance, but the screen at Neutral Bay did appear to be LED, black on yellow for B-Line services and black on white for other services.

Given that the B-Line is sharing the same road infrastructure as other services, it was never going to result in major journey time improvements. Although it stops less frequently, inevitably it will run into an all stops, so unless there is a break in the traffic, limited opportunities to round these up.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Frosty » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:27 pm

I did notice that MAN DDs were a bit slow to unload at Wynyard though I did notice a lot of old people come out they generally a bit slower. Though I don’t know what are the timings like 1.5 door B12 bendies versus the MAN DDs.

Depends on individual drivers as well with the way the bus is driven. Though I don’t know if you can thrash the MAN DDs like other buses. Like I would know if a B12 or Scania K310UB was driven hard it would be possible for it be a bit faster & make up time.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:43 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:Knew it. Route 199, every service active at this moment (im checking NextThere) is a standard bus, except one sole exception is a bendy.

On the other hand, regularly seeing standard CB60's, Volvo APG Orana, Volvo CB80 and even Volvo Bustech all the way up in Palm Beach would definitely be something completely new.


I think they would be an higher percentage of route 199 being bendies on peak hours, and off peak being other buses (both from brookie and mona depots)
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:44 pm

Frosty wrote:I did notice that MAN DDs were a bit slow to unload at Wynyard though I did notice a lot of old people come out they generally a bit slower. Though I don’t know what are the timings like 1.5 door B12 bendies versus the MAN DDs.

Depends on individual drivers as well with the way the bus is driven. Though I don’t know if you can thrash the MAN DDs like other buses. Like I would know if a B12 or Scania K310UB was driven hard it would be possible for it be a bit faster & make up time.


I think there an general improvement of frequency and much more streamlined.... and love the screen....
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:41 pm

I missed something. When did the first B-line decker enter public service?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Daniel » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:02 am

Yesterday at 4.44am.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Bjwh86 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:33 am

So did anyone personally catch this service today? How were the run times?
From what I saw on the real time apps, earlier services were anywhere from 8-45 minutes late.


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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:54 am

I caught a ride on the B-Line. It has its ups and downs but for the most part, I was really impressed. These deckers are way, way better than their Bustech counterparts (but thats no surprise is it), in my opinion. The individual seating is much more comfortable. The windows are not tinted dark either, meaning you can get a clear view outside, even at night. And it just looks more streamlined too, German public transport vehicles really are some of the finest in the world in my opinion. There's also automatic stop announcements on board too, which is a nice touch. Only thing I don't like again is the lack of a lower deck front seat, but I'll consider the other nice things about this bus make up for it.

On the other hand. Stairs are quite narrow. There's only enough room to have one flow of either going up/down at one time. And I agree with what another poster said about it feeling a bit slow - even on the highway when there wasn't any traffic. B12BLEA bendys definitely feel like they have more horsepower in them, and I've seen some commentators on facebook suggest that the now-almost-redundant L90 is still marginally faster and also takes less time to un/offload at Wynyard. While on the subject of Facebook comments theres a LOT of angry Palm Beach commentators about the removal of so many L90 trips, complaints of standard buses and overcrowding on the new 199, etc etc

Finally, I love the real-time stop displays at the stops, very European-like. We need these at larger bus stops - don't stop here! It's a step in the right direction. Then again, automatic announcements on Metrobus was too, but look what happened to that....

As a whole though, I'm not complaining because the Libs have actually tried doing something with the Northern Beaches and I appreciate the effort - a far cry from the Labor did during their time in office for this region.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby boronia » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:07 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:
On the other hand. Stairs are quite narrow. There's only enough room to have one flow of either going up/down at one time.

I think this could actually be quicker than having people trying to move in opposite directions at the same time; most people don't seem to understand "stair etiquette", so forcing the up movements to wait until the down movements are finished could be better (except for the stragglers).
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:19 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:As a whole though, I'm not complaining because the Libs have actually tried doing something with the Northern Beaches and I appreciate the effort - a far cry from the Labor did during their time in office for this region.


Thanks Jurassic_Joke. In reading the commentary through the SMH and Daily Terror's online forums, it seems there is outrage anywhere whenever the government tries to do anything to improve PT.

Everything is seen through the lens of privatisation, offshoring of jobs, "we could've done this better" mentality, or worse still, "we don't need a B-Line for the Northern Beaches".

Sometimes it even gets rather racist.

Whilst we have our agreements/disagreements on this forum, almost all the time it is backed up by facts and experiences from overseas [which may or may not be the case in Sydney - that is irrelevant]. 99% of comments however on the SMH/DT's FB or website is based on feelings and mostly untruths, worse still, bogan comments which make zero sense.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:11 pm

I’ll wait to judge the B-Line until next year when all the buses are in operation and the various road improvements are actually complete. This from a press release last week:

The launch of the B-Line services and the changes to the local bus and road network are just the first phase of improvements to public transport on the Northern Beaches and Lower North Shore.

The implementation of AM peak bus lanes in Balgowlah and Neutral Bay is also proposed in early 2018, which would provide additional bus priority along the corridor and improve reliability of bus services for customers.

“These changes, along the with introduction of new and extended tidal flow systems on Military and Spit Roads, will improve traffic flow and provide greater reliability to public transport users,” Mr Constance said.

“Whilst we’ll see some initial benefits, construction work will continue in 2018 and public transport users will see the full extent of these improvements upon program completion.


https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... til-b-line
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Re: the B-Line experience

Postby Cremorne » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:19 pm

Took a ride on B-line.
Good points: Yes, it is a smooth ride and fairly quiet. The interior was clean and fresh, the USB charging ports are between every set of seats, and upper deck passengers enjoy not only a magnificent view of the harbour but also views into people's houses and apartments - in fact Wendy Harmer warned residents along the route of the dangers from "rubber necking".

Negative points: There is VERY low head room on the top deck - anyone over 5'3 (1.6 m) can easily touch the ceiling and anyone slighter taller has to stoop.

Going over the harbour bridge the bus driver drove slowly down the bus lane - we noticed that the steel arches of the bridge protrude from the left side alarmingly close to the bus. We asked the bus driver as we got off if that was why he had to slow down - he said yes. He said there is very low head room at the overhead bridge at the top of the Burnt Bridge Deviation leading onto the Spit - I think it's the Ethel street overpass that he was talking about at Balgowlah.

On the run from the city we sat downstairs - the bus was able to move more quickly over the bridge as it was able to travel in the middle lanes where there were no
arches! We also noticed that there seemed to be less seating room downstairs with 2 sets of seats facing backwards so 4 passengers on every bus have to sit facing backwards and eyeballing the passengers sitting opposite them for up to an hour if going all the way to/from Mona Vale.

We timed how long it took to get everyone off the bus at Wynyard - the upperdeck seemed to take a long time to unload with everyone having to come down the stairs single file. We counted it took more than 3 mins and the bus was not full - the driver did not come upstairs to check for any left pax or left items which is in contrast to what B-line officials said at public information sessions.

This afternoon (Mon 27.11.17) saw 3 B-line buses in a conga line travelling through Neutral Bay - now we have to complain about TOO frequent services! LOL!
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:29 pm

Rode it on the way back (before peak hour), and its was a good ride i gotta say.... and i enjoy the frequency....

I say bring into Newport ASAP...
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:27 am

How many non double deck buses were on B1 yesterday?

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Re: the B-Line experience

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:40 am

Cremorne wrote:the upperdeck seemed to take a long time to unload with everyone having to come down the stairs single file. We counted it took more than 3 mins and the bus was not full

Not only upholding the Sydney bus dwell-time tradition but taking it to new heights of awfulness. With few stops en route over a long distance, I accept that they're the right bus for their type of service but I hope one day somebody in Transport doesn't get the mad idea of putting them on regular routes - but, knowing NSW, it has a certain grim sense of inevitablity about it.

Cremorne wrote:There is VERY low head room on the top deck - anyone over 5'3 (1.6 m) can easily touch the ceiling and anyone slighter taller has to stoop.

Ahh, so that's how they deal with the centre-of-gravity issue! I wonder if I'd be able to get a platform pass like I used to have from the DGT?

Do they have a single skin roof with those lovely structural ribs across the top deck ceiling that you can thump your head on as you scuttle down the aisle like a hobbit?

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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Linto63 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:01 am

Jurassic_Joke wrote:And it just looks more streamlined too, German public transport vehicles really are some of the finest in the world in my opinion.
Just to confirm German chassis, but Malaysian body.

tonyp wrote:The double decker bus - Britain's revenge on the world for the loss of the British Empire.
Yet still widely purchased in many Asian countries long after they have cut ties with the mother country
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:41 am

I've been sent a photograph of the rear of a CDC Bustec decker and a Gemilang alongside each other in Clarence Street this morning,

The Gemilang does not have an emergency exit sign on the rear window - does this mean that there are other arrangements?
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Re: the B-Line experience

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:43 am

tonyp wrote: but I hope one day somebody in Transport doesn't get the mad idea of putting them on regular routes - but, knowing NSW, it has a certain grim sense of inevitablity about it.
.


And probably on something that loads and unloads huge numbers of passengers at major centres - the 400 comes to mind.
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Re: the B-Line experience

Postby PoweredByCNG » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:53 am

tonyp wrote:The double decker bus - Britain's revenge on the world for the loss of the British Empire.


And funnily enough, these double decker buses have more in common with what operates in Berlin than what operates in London.
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Re: the B-Line experience

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:11 am

PoweredByCNG wrote:And funnily enough, these double decker buses have more in common with what operates in Berlin than what operates in London.

Well, the Germans got hold of a inherently problematic concept and made it into something far more workable for the tasks that it is best at.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:07 pm

Some nice footage by our Mr OCB of a good chunk of the run from Neutral Bay to Warrangah Mall. Sitting on top of the engine of course :roll: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss4OfSQgj4w

Very European-looking with the seats, next stop display and announcements. Seems a bit of a pitchy ride but that could be exaggerated through the camera.

Those rear-facing seats - well, welcome to some of the compromises made for fully low-floor, although some manufacturers manage to minimise that. Imho the Germans don't do interior layout very well but there are no doubt others who will disagree. Even with high-floor, some compromise with seating was always made because the wheel arches came above the floor. On the whole I think the Europeans manage the wheel arches in designs better than our local builders.

I see that the ubiquitous luggage rack is there as usual, taking up what could be a couple of seats. Haven't our bus designers learnt that nowadays most people wheel their stuff on board and/or generally carry it to the standee/flip-down seat area. The luggage rack is really pretty-much redundant. If an operator thinks they have to have one, it should be near the second door so that people exiting with belongings aren't blocking up the front of the bus to boarders. Australian bus design still has a way to go. I can't even remember when (or even if) I last saw a wheel-arch luggage rack in a European bus, it's always seating there.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby PoweredByCNG » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:54 pm

The MAN D20 engine with its vertical intake pipework, albeit quiet, produces a really pleasant sound that's atypical of the most modern engines. The larger of the two turbochargers fitted to the engine makes a lovely sound when spooling too.
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Re: the B-Line experience

Postby Swift » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:31 pm

Cremorne wrote:
- the driver did not come upstairs to check for any left pax or left items which is in contrast to what B-line officials said at public information sessions.

A sign of how things will be implemented by the organisation tasked with running what is supposed to be a fresh approach? Sure seems like it. :roll:

How long until they are running with scuff marks everywhere and interiors like a gym bathroom?
BAH!! More mediocrity that other states will emulate and execute better.
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