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Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beaches

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Mon May 29, 2017 8:33 pm

Rick R wrote:
Several improvements on the B-Line corridor have been anounced and work had alredy begun on some of them. The full scope of arrangements including route changes haven't been announced or even listed for consultation, so we'll see what gets put forward.

As for the traffic, you don't need to tell me about it mate...


That why changing operators doesn't work unless if they miltary and spit roads 24 hr bus lane (or at least a good part of the day bus lanes, and that means no T3 lane), and the other works will not help unless if the route is purely bus lane (and motorbike, taxis and whatever) during certain parts of the day
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Mon May 29, 2017 9:21 pm

GazzaOak wrote:
tonyp wrote:Sometimes visuals don't serve the intended purpose. This one makes the B Line look like the only one that isn't express!


Only difference is between the B-line and L90 will be is that B-line will not pick up passengers between mona vale and narrabeen (apart from warriewood park n ride), but the L90 will do all stops between narrabeen and mona vale


So I guess the L90 will receive a reduction in frequency in one way or another?

There's also a new E75 from Brookvale, all to Spit Junction.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Mon May 29, 2017 9:23 pm

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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Mon May 29, 2017 9:37 pm

None of the Lnn series are on the chart besides the L90. I wouldn't draw from that that they are getting chopped.

I'm disappointed that they would put in 'u' stops along Military Rd. Just run enough express services for the demand.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Richard290 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:39 pm

From this link that swtt posted:
http://yoursay.b-line.transport.nsw.gov.au/northern-beaches-bus-service-plan
Palm Beach

New route 199 will operate as a full time, all-stops service between Palm Beach and Manly via Avalon, Newport shops, Newport loop, Mona Vale, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road). Route 199 will provide connections to B-line services at Newport.
Route L90 will continue to operate during the weekday off-peak (9:00am-3:00pm) and weekends (7:00am-10:00pm), with a service frequency of 60 minutes. For travel to the City outside of these times, catch route 199 and connect to B-Line services at Newport.
Avalon

Route 199 will operate as a full time, all-stops service between Palm Beach and Manly via Avalon, Newport shops, Newport loop, Mona Vale, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road).
Route E88 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Narrabeen then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E88 services will be provided.
Route L90 will continue to operate during the weekday off-peak (9:00am-3:00pm) and weekends (7:00am-10:00pm), with a service frequency of 60 minutes. For travel to the City outside of these times, catch route 199 and connect to B-Line services at Newport.
Bilgola and Clareville

Routes 191 and 192 will now operate every 30 minutes across the day.
Route E89 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Narrabeen then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
Newport

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
Route 199 will operate as a full time, all-stops service between Palm Beach and Manly via Avalon, Newport shops, Newport loop, Mona Vale, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road).
Route E88 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Narrabeen then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E88 services will be provided.
Route E89 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Narrabeen then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
Route L90 will continue to operate during weekday off-peak (9:00am-3:00pm) and weekends (7:00am-10:00pm), with a service frequency of 60 minutes. For travel to the City outside of these times, catch route 199 and connect to B-Line services at Newport, or routes E88 or E89 at any bus stop along Barrenjoey Road.
Routes 187 and L87 will no longer operate. For travel to North Sydney and Milsons Point, use B-line services or route 199 to Mona Vale, and connect to frequent route E54 services to North Sydney
and Milsons Point during weekday peak periods.
Route E87 will no longer operate. For travel to the City, catch B-Line services at Newport, or routes E88 or E89 at any bus stop along Barrenjoey Road.
Services via the Newport Loop will be provided by routes 199 and L90.
Church Point and Bayview

Route 156 will be modified to operate between McCarrs Creek and Mona Vale, with increased frequencies across the day. For travel to Dee Why, Warringah Mall or Manly, connect to all-stops route 199 at Mona Vale.
Route E86 will no longer operate. For travel to the City, use route 156 and connect to B-Line services at Mona Vale.
Route 155 will be modified to operate between Bayview Garden Village and Narrabeen only via Narrabeen Peninsula and no longer operate to Manly. For travel to Dee Why, Warringah Mall or Manly, connect to all-stops route 199 at Mona Vale or Narrabeen.
Mona Vale

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
New route E54 will operate between Mona Vale and Milsons Point via North Sydney, providing frequent services during weekday peak periods, stopping at Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction, and then all stops to North Sydney and Milsons Point.
Route 155 will be modified to operate between Bayview Garden Village, Mona Vale and Narrabeen only, and no longer operate to Manly. For travel to Dee Why, Warringah Mall or Manly, connect to the all-stops route 199 at Mona Vale or Narrabeen.
Route 156 will be modified to operate between McCarrs Creek, Church Point and Mona Vale only. For all-stops travel to Dee Why, Warringah Mall or Manly, use route 199.
Route L60 to Chatswood will be renumbered to route E60, and will be altered to operate via Warringah Road through Narraweena and Beacon Hill. Route E60 will also be altered to operate via Boundary Road and Archer Street in Chatswood. Additional services will be provided.
Route 182 will be modified to operate via Samuel Street, Parkland Road and Waratah Street, replacing routes L85/185 in this area.
Route 185 will be modified to operate between Mona Vale and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road) only. Route 185 in the Samuel Street, Parkland Road and Waratah Street area will be replaced by route 182 which will be modified to operate in this area.
Route L85 will no longer operate, replaced by all-stops route 185 to Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road). For travel to the City connect with B-line services at Narrabeen.
Route L90 will continue to operate during the weekday off-peak (9:00am-3:00pm) and weekends (7:00am-10:00pm), with a service frequency of 60 minutes. For travel to the City outside of these times, catch new B-line services or routes E88 or E89.
Routes 184, L84, L85, E86, 187, E87, L87 and L88 will no longer operate, replaced by B-line services and routes E54 and 199.
Last edited by Richard290 on Mon May 29, 2017 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of M54, 513, 546, 549, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Richard290 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:40 pm

Warriewood Valley

Route E85 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Dee Why, then stopping only at Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road), Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional services will be provided.
Route 185 will be modified to operate between Mona Vale and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road). For travel to the City, connect to B-Line services at any B-Line bus stop between Mona Vale and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road).
Route L85 will no longer operate, replaced by route 185. For travel to the City, connect to B-line services at Narrabeen.
Elanora Heights

Route E83 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Dee Why, then stopping only at Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road), Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E83 services will be provided.
Route 182 will be modified to operate via Samuel Street, Parkland Road and Waratah Street, replacing routes L85/185 in this area.
Collaroy Beach

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
New route E54 will operate between Mona Vale and Milsons Point via North Sydney, providing frequent services during weekday peak periods, stopping at Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction, and then all stops to North Sydney and Milsons Point.
Route 185 will be modified to operate between Mona Vale and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road).
Route 155 and 156 would no longer operate in the Collaroy area. For travel to Mona Vale, Dee Why, Warringah Mall or Manly use route 199.
Routes E88 and E89 will no longer stop at Collaroy. For travel to Neutral Bay or the City use B-Line services.
Route L90 will continue to operate during the weekday off-peak (9:00am-3:00pm) and weekends (7:00am-10:00pm), with a service frequency of 60 minutes. For travel to the City during weekday peak periods, catch B-Line services.
Routes 183, 184, L84, L85, E86, 187, E87, L87 and L88 will no longer operate, replaced by B-Line services and routes E54 and 199.
Collaroy Plateau

Route L80 to the City will be renumbered to route E80 and will operate all stops to Dee Why, then stopping only at Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road), Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E80 services will be provided.
There will be no change to route 180.
Wheeler Heights and Cromer Heights

New route 146 will operate between Wheeler Heights and Manly via Dee Why and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road), replacing route 179 between Wheeler Heights and Warringah Mall.
Route 153 will no longer operate. Alternative services to Dee Why and Warringah Mall will be provided by routes 146 and 178.
Route 179 will no longer operate. New route 146 will replace route 179 between Wheeler Heights and Warringah Mall. For travel to the City, transfer to B-line services at Warringah Mall.
There will be no changes to routes E78, 178 and E79.
Narraweena and Beacon Hill

New route 146 will operate between Wheeler Heights and Manly via Dee Why and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road).
Route L60 will be renumbered to route E60, and will be altered to operate via Warringah Road through Narraweena and Beacon Hill. Route E60 will also be altered to operate via Boundary Road and Archer Street in Chatswood. Additional services will be provided.
Route 179 will no longer operate. New route 146 will replace route 179 between Wheeler Heights and Warringah Mall. For travel to the City, transfer to B-line services at Warringah Mall.
Route E69 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Avona Crescent, Seaforth then stopping only at Cremorne Junction, Neutral Bay (Watson Street) and the City. Additional route E69 services will be provided.
There will be no changes to routes 136, 169, 173, 178, E78 and E79.
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of M54, 513, 546, 549, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Richard290 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:41 pm

Dee Why

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
New route E54 will operate between Mona Vale and Milsons Point via North Sydney, providing
frequent services during weekday peak periods, stopping at Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen,
Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction, and then all stops
to North Sydney and Milsons Point.
Route 185 will be modified to operate between Mona Vale and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road).
Routes 155 and 156 will no longer operate in the Dee Why area. For travel to Mona Vale, use route 199 and for travel to Warringah Mall and Manly use routes 146, 169 or 199.
Route 179 will no longer operate. For all-stops services to the City via Balgowlah, use routes
178 and 180.
Route L60 to Chatswood will be renumbered to route E60, and will be altered to operate via
Warringah Road through Narraweena and Beacon Hill. Route E60 will also be altered to operate via Boundary Road and Archer Street in Chatswood. Additional services will be provided.
Route L90 will continue to operate during the weekday off-peak (9:00am-3:00pm) and weekends
(7:00am- 10:00pm), with a service frequency of 60 minutes. For travel to the City during weekday peak periods, catch B-Line services.
Routes L78, 183, 184, L84, L85, 187, E86, E87, L87 and L88 will no longer operate, replaced by B-Line services and routes E54 and 199.
There will be no changes to routes 136, 158, 159, 169, 178, 180, E76, E77, E78 and E79.
Manly Vale

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
New route E54 will operate between Mona Vale and Milsons Point via North Sydney, providing
frequent services during weekday peak periods, stopping at Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen,
Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction, and then all stops
to North Sydney and Milsons Point.
New route E75 will operate between Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road) and the City, via Condamine
Street, Balgowlah Shops and Sydney Road. The service will operate all stops to Spit Junction then
stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Route E75 services will operate during weekday
peak periods.
There will be no changes to routes 132, 135, 142, 178, 180, E66, E76, E77, E78 and E79.
Seaforth and North Balgowlah

Route 145 will be modified, no longer operating via North Seaforth.
Route 168 will be modified to operate to Milsons Point only. Services to the City will continue to be provided by route E68.
Route E41 will no longer operate. Services to and from Manly to connect with the Manly Ferry will be provided by routes 132, 143 and 144.
Route E68 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Spit Junction, and then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E68 services will be provided.
Route E69 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Avona Crescent, Seaforth then stopping only at Cremorne Junction, Watson Street and the City. Additional route E69 services will be provided.
There will be no changes to routes E41, 143, 144, 169, E69,
173, 178, 180 and 248.
Manly

New route 199 will operate between Manly and Palm Beach via Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road) and Dee Why.
New route 146 will operate between Manly and Wheeler Heights via Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road) and Dee Why.
Route 130 (Pumpkin Bus) will no longer operate. Late night services from Manly on Friday and Saturday nights will be provided by additional services on routes 136, 142 and 169.
Route 131 will no longer operate. Evening services to Balgowlah Heights, Seaforth and North Balgowlah will be provided by route 132.
Route E36 will no longer operate. Services to and from Manly to connect with the Manly Ferry will be provided by routes 136 and 139.
Route E41 will no longer operate. Services to and from Manly to connect with the Manly Ferry will be provided by routes 132, 143 and 144.
Route 135 will be extended to operate to and from North Fort Museum on all trips during the weekday off peak and weekend.
Routes 155 and 156 will no longer operate to and from Manly. These routes will be replaced by routes 146, 169 and 199.
Route 140 will no longer operate. Alternative travel between Manly and Macquarie Park is available by routes 143 and 144 to St Leonards, and connecting to other buses or Sydney Trains services.
Route E70 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Avona Crescent, Seaforth then stopping only at Cremorne Junction, Watson Street and the City.
Route E71 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Spit Junction then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E71 services will be provided.
Route E50 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Seaforth then stopping only at Watson Street and then all stops from Miller Street to Milsons Point.
There will be no changes to routes 132, 136, 139, 142, 143, 144, 158, 159 and 169.
Balgowlah and Balgowlah Heights

New route E75 will operate between Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road) and the City, via Condamine Street, Balgowlah Shops and Sydney Road. The service will operate all stops to Spit Junction then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Route E75 services will operate during weekday peak periods.
Route 131 will no longer operate. Evening services to and from Manly will be provided by route 132.
Route E50 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Seaforth then stopping only at Watson Street and then all stops from Miller Street to Milsons Point.
Route 168 will be modified to operate to Milsons Point only. Services to the City will continue to be provided by route E68.
Route E68 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Spit Junction, and then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E68 services will be provided.
Route E70 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Avona Crescent, Seaforth then stopping only at Cremorne Junction, Watson Street and the City.
Route 171 will no longer operate. Additional services will be provided on route E71.
Route E71 will have a modified stopping pattern, with services operating all stops to Spit Junction then stopping only at Neutral Bay Junction and the City. Additional route E71 services will be provided.
Route 185 will no longer operate in the Balgowlah area. For travel to the City, use routes 178 and 180.
Allambie Heights

Additional route E66 services will be provided.
There will be no changes to route 142.
North Sydney and Milsons Point services

New route E54 will operate between Milsons Point and Mona Vale, stopping at all stops to Falcon Street, then stopping at Neutral Bay Junction, Spit Junction, Manly Vale, Brookvale, Dee why, Collaroy, Narrabeen, Warriewood and Mona Vale.
Routes 175, 183, 187, L84, L78 and L87 will no longer operate. Alternative services will be provided by new route E54.
There will be no changes to routes 168, 173, 227, 228, 229 and 230.
Mosman (Spit Junction)

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
Route 140 will no longer operate. Alternative travel between Mosman and Macquarie Park is available by routes 143 and 144 to St Leonards, and connecting to other buses or Sydney Trains services.
Route 236 will be modified to operate via Punch Street, Mosman.
Routes E70, E83 and E85 will no longer stop at Spit Junction.
Routes E68, E71 and E75 will now stop at Spit Junction.
There will be no changes to routes M30, 143, 144, 151, 169, 173, 178, 180, 188, 227, 228, 229, 230, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249 and 257.
Cremorne Junction

Route 140 will no longer operate. Alternative travel between Cremorne and Macquarie Park is available by routes 143 and 144 to St Leonards, and connecting to other buses or Sydney Trains services.
Routes E68 and E71 will no longer stop at Cremorne Junction.
There will be no changes to routes M30, 143, 144, 151, E65, E66, E69, 169, E70, 173, E76, E77, E78, 178, E79, 180, 188, 227, 228, 229, 230, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249 and 257.
Neutral Bay (Neutral Bay Junction)

New B-Line services will operate between Newport and the City, providing frequent services all day, seven days a week, stopping only at Newport, Mona Vale, Warriewood, Narrabeen, Collaroy, Dee Why, Brookvale, Manly Vale, Spit Junction, Neutral Bay Junction and the City.
Route 140 will no longer operate. Alternative travel between Neutral Bay and Macquarie Park is available by routes 143 and 144 to St Leonards, and connecting to other buses or Sydney Trains services.
Routes E68, E71 and E75 will now stop at Neutral Bay Junction.
There will be no changes to routes M30, 143, 144, 151, 169, 173, 178, 180, E83, E85, E88, 188, 227, 228, 229, 230, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249 and 257.
Neutral Bay (Watson Street)

Route 140 will no longer operate. Alternative travel between Neutral Bay and Macquarie Park is available by routes 143 and 144 to St Leonards, and connecting to other buses or Sydney Trains services.
Routes E68 and E71 will no longer stop at Watson Street.
There will be no changes to routes M30, 143, 144, 151, E65, E66, E69, 169, E70, 173, E76, E77, E78, 178, E79, 180, 188, 227, 228, 229, 230, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249 and 257.
Last edited by Richard290 on Mon May 29, 2017 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of M54, 513, 546, 549, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Mon May 29, 2017 9:43 pm

Last edited by mandonov on Mon May 29, 2017 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Mon May 29, 2017 9:43 pm

With the frequency that L85+L90 would've provided in the weekday off peak that actually amounts to the equivalent of a bus every 10 minutes. The actual increase along the corridor is one bus per hour (L90) as B-line simply straightens out the L85.

The major winner is the 10 min service until late.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby rogf24 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:54 pm

I'm quite disappointed by the axing of 140.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Mon May 29, 2017 9:55 pm

rogf24 wrote:I'm quite disappointed by the axing of 140.


Is that the witty part of yourself again rogf24? :P
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby rogf24 » Mon May 29, 2017 10:00 pm

swtt wrote:
rogf24 wrote:I'm quite disappointed by the axing of 140.


Is that the witty part of yourself again rogf24? :P

No, I've used it all the way from Macquarie Park to Manly or Lower North Shore on a few occasions and it's been great. It gets quite full as well, and not just of short distance travellers using it as an alternative to the local service but ones who go across regions.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Mon May 29, 2017 10:05 pm

I find long explanations such as this somewhat unintelligble for anyone who isn't fanatically familiar with the existing services.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Mon May 29, 2017 10:12 pm

Why are people from the northern parts of the beaches being told to change to the all-stops 199 to get to Warringah Mall. Wouldn't the B line from Mona Vale be better ? Or is there some subtle difference between "Brookvale" and "Warringah Mall" that I have not noticed ?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Frosty » Mon May 29, 2017 10:13 pm

I can see some downsides there will be a reduction particularly with no 179 so that means a reduction to a 3 buses per hour instead of 4 buses per hour 15 min frequency for all stops City via Balgowlah during the off-peak Mon-Fri. So I guess if you want a CBD bus from Balgowlah you either wait for a 178 or 180 or get on a 143/144 then change at Spit Junction or Neutral Bay.

Moving the L90 to a 60 min frequency seems such a token measure it will be like the 169 with its 60 min frequency off-peak carrying fresh air. I bet to reduce passengers on the L90 and get them on the B-Line is they will get the L90 to leave of Clarence St away from all the other Northern Beaches services at Carrington St.

Interesting that B-Line will pick up at Newport. What are they going do about those early morning weekend 190 services between when the 151 ends and the L90 and other all stops services start. To service between Spit Jn and Warringah Mall via Balgowlah.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Mon May 29, 2017 10:27 pm

Here's where these "change buses" models tend to fall over.

Suppose I live at Church Point, and often catch the bus to Warringah Mall for shopping. In order to catch the bus back to Church Point, I know that the bus runs hourly, I know the schedule, and I know that the bus won't leave more than 2 minutes early, and I know exactly how long it takes to walk to the bus stop from the cafe at Warringah Mall, where I like to relax after shopping. Once I am on the bus, I don't care if it is a good traffic day or a bad traffic day.

Now, I am supposed to guess exactly what time I need to catch a bus at Warringah Mall, in order to connect to the hourly bus from Mona Vale to Church Point. And if I guess wrong, or the traffic is a bit heavier than the timetable assumes, then I waste 55 minutes at Mona Vale standing around waiting for the next bus. And if I am super-cautious to avoid this, and so I leave the shops at Warringah Mall earlier, then most of the time I spend 20 minutes waiting around at Mona Vale, because I got there un-necessarily early, if the traffic was average.

From a consumer point of view, either of those outcomes is a fail. It is quicker, simpler and less stressful to drive.

For "outbound" journeys, the same logic also applies for CBD commuters. If you live in a part of the beaches region outside walking distance from the main corridor, and you currently have infrequent services directly from the CBD, then it is not too hard to plan to be in Carrington Street or Clarence St to catch it, and once you catch it, the traffic conditions in Cremorne and Mosman on that particular day become an entirely non-stress issue. A five-minute hold-up in the congested areas becomes five minutes later, getting home. No big deal.

If you have to change to a feeder bus which runs very infrequently, a five-minute holdup on the B-line bus due to traffic in Cremorne easily becomes a 55-minute wait for the second bus, and an hour later getting home. Stressful, inefficient and annoying.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Mon May 29, 2017 10:31 pm

Liamena wrote:I find long explanations such as this somewhat unintelligble for anyone who isn't fanatically familiar with the existing services.

A bit simpler is this graphic:

Image
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Mon May 29, 2017 10:39 pm

swtt wrote:
So I guess the L90 will receive a reduction in frequency in one way or another?

There's also a new E75 from Brookvale, all to Spit Junction.


Few reviews from a bloke that lives up that end

- Surprised they kept the L90, thought they will get rid of the L90 for good.... but its going to be an hourly basis tho.... but will make up with route 199 (which in fact would be same frequency as the L90, so therefor probs 2-4 per hour plus the hourly L90, so in fact a service increase by 1 tho).... at least we'll have a direct route to manly and a ferry option if really bad traffic in mosman area.

- The E88/E89 was a mixed bag (was expecting to it to be all stops to Mona Vale then express to Netural Bay, but its decent enough, and skips colloroy/dee why). Its should have skipped colloroy/dee why and picked up/drop off in narrabeen both ways right from the start. But the dislike is all stops to narrabeen, but at least its still skip the newport loop.

- Surprised that B-line got extended to Newport.... but i think its would be easier to truncate the route in Newport than Mona Vale... because less hassle there.... and at least we'll have an off peak option which actually skips the Newport loop.

So I think this B-line and upgraded routes is pretty good overall, but as per say not good enough than a metro system (i would be happy for a metro system to Dee Why and most buses terminating in Dee Why.... so I wouldn't mind an E88/L90 route terminating in Dee Why and hopping onto a metro train....
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Mon May 29, 2017 10:42 pm

GazzaOak wrote:So I think this B-line and upgraded routes is pretty good overall, but as per say not good enough than a metro system (i would be happy for a metro system to Dee Why and most buses terminating in Dee Why.... so I wouldn't mind an E88/L90 route terminating in Dee Why and hopping onto a metro train....


These are baby steps to a metro :)

Just like the metrobus in the East were baby steps to CSELR and possibly Metro West soon...
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby GazzaOak » Mon May 29, 2017 10:44 pm

swtt wrote:These are baby steps to a metro :)

Just like the metrobus in the East were baby steps to CSELR and possibly Metro West soon...


Hopefully, haha
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Mon May 29, 2017 11:05 pm

"Route L60 to Chatswood will be renumbered to route E60, and will be altered to operate via
Warringah Road through Narraweena and Beacon Hill."

I wonder how the Liberal Party will respond to demands for more pedestrian crossings on Warringah Road, so that customers can actually this service.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Richard290 » Mon May 29, 2017 11:09 pm

New Routes
E54 - Mona Vale to Milsons Point
E75 - Warringah Mall to City - Wynyard via Balgowlah Shops
146 - Wheeler Heights to Manly
199 - Palm Beach to Manly

Modified Routes/Service
145 Manly to Warringah Mall via Seaforth and King Street
E50 Manly to Milsons Point
155 Bayview Garden Village to Narrabeen
156 McCarrs Creek to Mona Vale
E66 Allambie Heights to City - Wynyard
168 Warringah Mall to Milsons Point via North Balgowlah
E68 Warringah Mall to City -Wynyard via North Balgowlah
E69/169 Manly to City-Wynyard via Warringah Mall, Narraweena and Wakehurst Pkwy
E70 Manly to City - Wynyard via Sydney Rd
E71 Manly to City - Wynyard via South Balgowlah
182 Mona Vale to Narrabeen via Warriewood Valley and Elanora Heights
E83 North Narrabeen to City - Wynyard via Elanora Heights
185 Mona Vale to Warringah Mall via Warriewood Valley
E85 Mona Vale to City - Wynyard via Warriewood Valley
E88 Nth Avalon to City - Wynyard
E89 Avalon to City - Wynyard via Clareville
L90 Palm Beach to City-Wynyard
236 South Mosman Wharf to Spit Junction

Renumbered Routes
E60 Mona Vale to Chatswood
E80 Collaroy Plateau to City

Discontinued Routes
130
131
140
153
175
L78
179
183
L84/184
L85
E86
L87/187
L88
Living at the north end of the T6 Line, 513 and the confluence of M54, 513, 546, 549, 553, 625 & 630.
Also living a mile from the Oakes Road interchange.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Mon May 29, 2017 11:18 pm

mandonov wrote:
Liamena wrote:I find long explanations such as this somewhat unintelligble for anyone who isn't fanatically familiar with the existing services.

A bit simpler is this graphic:


Yes, that is simpler.

The way the cut and paste worked, it was not obvious that the original explanation was organised by suburb, because the subtitle for each paragraph was unhelpfully formatted.

Another problem with the map, is that it is not obvious ( without a lot of hunting and pecking ), which services operate all of the time, and which services only have a handful of services on weekdays, and are pretty much irrelevant to the user who isn't a 9-5 commuter.

If you really wanted simplicity, this is what I would do:

B-line
One route all stops Palm Beach to Manly via Brookvale.
One route all stops Brookvale to North Sydney
One route all stops North Mosman to Wynyard.
All other services, feeder to B-line, with frequency no worse than 15 minutes . This just about eliminates interchange stress which is a big deterrent for customers.

No very infrequent services to CBD.
No services to CBD which have a very limited period of operation.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Mon May 29, 2017 11:39 pm

The pattern of buses stopping at Spit Junction, Cremorne Junction, Neutral Bay Junction, and Watson Street seems to be very complicated and tricky.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Mon May 29, 2017 11:43 pm

Yeah I fail to see why the L90 would continue to exist when the B-Line starts operating. It's practically the same route.

This is their justification for the Newport stop from the FAQ section:
Why was the B-Line extended to Newport?

Extending the B-Line to Newport will make it easier for customers from the surrounding area to travel to and from the Sydney CBD.

Why not just extend to Avalon then?
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