boronia wrote:
I travel a lot on K and T sets, the a/c on these seems more than up to the task. Not sure why they need "more powerful" system on newer cars, there is no major improvement.
More like two A/C units per carriage in M/A sets, as opposed to more powerful air conditioning units.
This allows for load balancing as well as still having some air conditioning in the rare event one of them breaks down (K/T/C sets are notorious when the air conditioning units break down!)
The aircon is very loud on the K sets too.
Back on the T sets, who else finds the yellow front s and doors ruin their looks and ages them?
Are there that many people walking on the railway tracks that safety yellow is that imperative?
I hardly think people need the doors highlighted for them either. This yellow paint has only made for an ideal canvas for vandals to scratch in their tags without the need for a posca!
Another case of unnecessary cosmetic changes designed to give off an illusion of modernising the fleet.
At least they were consistent about implementing it across the board, unlike a certain rubber tyred counterpart.
Yellow is a minimum safety requirement for visibility in regards to the ends of the suburban sets.It is used for maximum sighting for track workers,in depots and yards,level crossings etc etc.
Yellow doors are requirement for visibility for the disabled/visually impared.
Yes,the A/C on some of the older sets is loud but I would rather have loud A/C than no A/C.
The graffiti arseholes don't give a toss what they are painting - they paint anything and everything not just yellow doors.
In regards to why the Goninan manufactured sets have some not so flattering ends,when they were manufactured,the S,K and C sets were design/manufacturing licenced from Pullman Standard in the USA and couldn't compete with the Budd licenced Comeng built products.Thus the stainless profile and ends are different for example.
The C Sets were the forerunner to the Tangaras and much of the design in a C is the same electrically in regards to Chopper control and regen braking as against the K and S Sets which are all friction braking and camshaft/resistor electrical control.
But the Comeng cars used a front end profile carried over from single decks sets, so really this was a NSWGR owned design. Goninans did manage to get the C sets looking better, shame they didn't do this on earlier cars.
IIRC the Tangara design originally came as result of an international competition and was from an English studio. (A K set was mocked up with a Tangara front prior to the C sets being built?) Goninans later got the contract to build to that design.
Preserving fire service history @ The Museum of Fire.
The fibreglass facia grafted over the standard generic Goninan end was very effective. They always reminded me of the Comeng front, especially since they got the desto boards and yellow with grey upper.
I was convinced it was a new train design when they were new, especially with those hi tech looking LED arrows that were above the doors. What a shame the public weren't educated that it indicated the self opening doors were ready to be activated by push button.
Why is there a refusal to try and introduce push button activation a second time? The V sets are no different in concept.except for physical opening of the doors by hand. All trains from T sets and later, have buttons installed on the inside of the doors.
Why cater to the dills? If they don't figure it out right away, let them learn at their own pace.
The A set's have buttons with a ring of green flashing lights around them. How much clearer can they get?
THey have had push buttons for pedestrian crossings for as long as I can remember, but there are still people who don't seem to be aware and just stand there waiting for the lights to change; after a while they get frustrated and try to make a run for it through moving cars.
A lot of people, presumably non regular travellers, don't understand about V set doors and stand there waiting for them to open.
Preserving fire service history @ The Museum of Fire.
Well also regular travellers who don't travel on V sets such as T2, T3, T4 Line customers would have no clue about V set doors even I dont use them a lot I know u have to open manually they are bit annoying but a push button and that bad like on the OSCARs.
I regularly see people pushing the door buttons on the light rail even though there's no need to. Actually they do come in handy sometimes, as a lot of drivers don't open the doors if they're is no-one on the platform.
The built in door opening handles on the Tangaras that were never used, were a legacy of the C sets. It seems this feature was already comitted for production by the time the then SRA decided to permanently deactivate the C's door buttons for guard control only.
I think the main factor that was against passenger activated doors at the time C sets were introduced, was the majority of trains didn't have door buttons built in and relied on guard activation so you couldn't expect all passengers to learn a different routine for a small group of trains.
Now the situation has changed where the vast majority of the fleet have passenger use buttons already built into each door, so introduction of passenger activated opening shouldn't pose too much of a problem like before.
On 13/1/2016,T106 was making its journey to Broadmedow Yard.As this will be the first Tangara train to have the upgrade,STV says that it will provide new passenger destination display screens,CCTV's and more.Anyway it will be like a retrofitting progress.Videos are available.
Swift wrote:The built in door opening handles on the Tangaras that were never used, were a legacy of the C sets. It seems this feature was already comitted for production by the time the then SRA decided to permanently deactivate the C's door buttons for guard control only.
I think the main factor that was against passenger activated doors at the time C sets were introduced, was the majority of trains didn't have door buttons built in and relied on guard activation so you couldn't expect all passengers to learn a different routine for a small group of trains.
Now the situation has changed where the vast majority of the fleet have passenger use buttons already built into each door, so introduction of passenger activated opening shouldn't pose too much of a problem like before.
The C sets were visually similar to the K and S sets so it is easy to understand that people would be confused. The Tangaras were visibly different so might have been easier to have the transition then. The best solution would have been to have announcements (similar to "door closing..") when the doors were unlocked.
Preserving fire service history @ The Museum of Fire.
I don't think you need announcements. People will catch on quickly. I've been to plenty of cities that have a mixture of stock, some with buttons and some without. ( trains and buses that require some action to open the doors) Also different types of buttons or leavers in the same city.
What is it about Sydney people? A number of pedestrians don't push the buttons to cross the road and get annoyed when the green man doesn't appear. I always say in a loud voice" didn't someone push the button". The confusion arises because some lights are automatic and some will skip the pedestrian cycle if button not pushed.
Most pedestrian buttons in the city do nothing during the day, they only affect the cycles at night. This confuses people who are used to the buttons being placebos. But some of them are indeed requIred at night to activate the walk signal. And there's never any signage informing you of this. So it's really no wonder people are confused.
Similar problem existed on the light rail when the new trams were introduced. With the old Variotrams, the doors were always opened at every stop, despite the doors having buttons for users. With the Urbos trams, drivers started unlocking the doors only and expecting users to push the buttons, but given many years of that feature not being used on Variotrams, it caused endless confusion. Now it seems they are back to the driver always opening all doors and the buttons being superfluous.
Their brains are wired the wrong way. Everything has to be complicated, nothing can be straightforward and logical. They have evolved this way from their environment.
Even David Attenborough would be perplexed.
Well aren't the instructions clear on V sets on how to open similar to the Comeng fleet in Melbourne. I want to see buttons back again on T sets since I don't want to lose all the cool AC air when the train is standing at like Cronulla or Hornsby and other stations. Since with the T sets its like the AC works well or craps out better than some of the M sets AC or let alone the good old S set. I would like to also see the inter-carriage doors removed or left permanently open on the Tangaras.
Do you really know what you are asking for?? Door opening buttons WILL NOT be returning to Tangaras or any other set.The way the door control and operation is set up in conjunction with Traction Interlocking is not going to be changed.Take it or leave it but it is configured for safety reasons not about A/C functioning.
Inter carriage doors WILL BE staying for safety,A/C and passenger security reasons.How do you propose we nightsafe cars if we have a defective one - that's right,fail the whole train and disembark the passengers.I had to get my guard on one of my services earlier this week in peak hour to nightsafe a car after vandals damaged a door.Otherwise I would have been leaving people standing on each station on my service because we couldn't isolate the effected car.
Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Do you really know what you are asking for?? Door opening buttons WILL NOT be returning to Tangaras or any other set.The way the door control and operation is set up in conjunction with Traction Interlocking is not going to be changed.Take it or leave it but it is configured for safety reasons not about A/C functioning.
Inter carriage doors WILL BE staying for safety,A/C and passenger security reasons.How do you propose we nightsafe cars if we have a defective one - that's right,fail the whole train and disembark the passengers.I had to get my guard on one of my services earlier this week in peak hour to nightsafe a car after vandals damaged a door.Otherwise I would have been leaving people standing on each station on my service because we couldn't isolate the effected car.
Fair enough will door buttons then will be coming to the future intercity sets that are coming in a few years or so.
How long possibly will it take for one train to be refurbished and how long would it take to do the whole fleet. Hopefully not longer though this could take longer than the last Tangara minor refurb that took until mid to early 2014 and started once the ex G sets were cascaded to suburban running back around 2010.
Though one thing I like about the Tangaras is the DC motors noise much nicer to hear and not to boring like the A sets.
The Tangara project will take several years due to complete all sets as only so many sets can be released at any one time.The electrical upgrade (control TMS) and cab upgrade will take the most time then all systems will have to be tested and certified.
Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Inter carriage doors WILL BE staying for safety,A/C and passenger security reasons.How do you propose we nightsafe cars if we have a defective one - that's right,fail the whole train and disembark the passengers.I had to get my guard on one of my services earlier this week in peak hour to nightsafe a car after vandals damaged a door.Otherwise I would have been leaving people standing on each station on my service because we couldn't isolate the effected car.
I wonder how this issue is resolved on fully walk through trains, like we're getting for the metro?
Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Inter carriage doors WILL BE staying for safety,A/C and passenger security reasons.How do you propose we nightsafe cars if we have a defective one - that's right,fail the whole train and disembark the passengers.I had to get my guard on one of my services earlier this week in peak hour to nightsafe a car after vandals damaged a door.Otherwise I would have been leaving people standing on each station on my service because we couldn't isolate the effected car.
I wonder how this issue is resolved on fully walk through trains, like we're getting for the metro?
Well the whole thing will be fully automated and for vandals it will be near impossible well at least in Stage 1 to get on to the tracks or so.
Also the Tangara program could of been done faster had Sydney Trains/TfNSW/ NSW Government taken the option of ordering the 20 options it had for 20 A sets. At least 10-12 sets would of been better. Since most peak hours you can always find at least a half-dozen odd S sets operating on the T2, T3, T5 lines now its been worse lately. I guess they can't take too many T sets away otherwise wait till 7 or 9 news get hold of the info S sets are now running about a whole lot more again we cant embarrass the minister Constance.
